June 3 U20 Friendly - Canada vs. Morocco [R]

[analyst]

quote:Originally posted by DJT

I think there is a significant difference between where Hume was playing and where Uccello is playing. First, remember that Serie D is Italy's fifth tier (not fourth as it would seem), so it's two levels below England's third tier. Second, in England there are 24 teams at the third tier, 24 at the fourth tier and 22 at the fifth tier, whereas in Italy there are 37 teams at the third tier, 56 at the fourth tier and 164 at the fifth tier. Therefore, the level of play gets watered-down faster as you go down the Italian pyramid compared to the English pyramid.

Rob Sing, an 18 year old Canadian is off to Italy later this summer for tryouts at several Serie B teams, thanks to a former Serie A player who now lives in the Vancouver area. It'll be interesting to see how he does, and if he ends up palying regularly at Serie B.

As for the thread, on the one hand its good that our U20 team lost against Morocco. It will motivate the players more. It would have been worse if we had won and then entered the qualifying round overconfident.

[The Ref]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

But the player in question plays in Italy. I don't know that you play in a more "soccer-mad" culture. Just check out the Italian sports media to get an idea of the significance of the game in Italian life. That translates in a very competitive environment and I dont know how the NCAA ( although vastly improving) could measure up in terms of competiveness and depth of talent pool. If we are to dismiss the level of the competition that Uccello currently plays in then what are we to say about the level of play that Ian Hume played in leading up to the 2001 U20 WC. Hume was playing in the third tier of the professional soccer ladder at tranmere. Hardly an improvement, if any. Look at what Hume was able do for Canada in 2001.

I don't think I have ever seen Julian play so I have no opinion in his ability. However let me relay a personal experience re Latin type of soccer environment as referred to by Free Kick.

Yesterday I had the opportunity to officiate a local Men's Div. 3 game between a team made up mostly of Latin inmigrants and a Canadian side. It was a delight watching these Latin's play with total confidence, unbelievable touch of the ball and knowledge of the game. Sure there were the usual divings and tricks, but overall they imposed themselves to the tune of 9-0. Coming from a soccer environment seems to give an edge we Canadians find hard to attain.

[The Ref]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

But the player in question plays in Italy. I don't know that you play in a more "soccer-mad" culture. Just check out the Italian sports media to get an idea of the significance of the game in Italian life. That translates in a very competitive environment and I dont know how the NCAA ( although vastly improving) could measure up in terms of competiveness and depth of talent pool. If we are to dismiss the level of the competition that Uccello currently plays in then what are we to say about the level of play that Ian Hume played in leading up to the 2001 U20 WC. Hume was playing in the third tier of the professional soccer ladder at tranmere. Hardly an improvement, if any. Look at what Hume was able do for Canada in 2001.

I don't think I have ever seen Julian play so I have no opinion in his ability. However let me relay a personal experience re Latin type of soccer environment as referred to by Free Kick.

Yesterday I had the opportunity to officiate a local Men's Div. 3 game between a team made up mostly of Latin inmigrants and a Canadian side. It was a delight watching these Latin's play with total confidence, unbelievable touch of the ball and knowledge of the game. Sure there were the usual divings and tricks, but overall they imposed themselves to the tune of 9-0. Coming from a soccer environment seems to give an edge we Canadians find hard to attain.

[Alberto]

quote:Originally posted by Ivan

With all due respect to Julian, I do not think he is DM's type of attacker. I have never seen him play, but from all descriptions by those who have, he is a penalty area lurker and goal poacher (not that I do not think we could have used him).

DM seems to like attackers who pressure defenders all game and get back to help out in defensive positions. Attackers like Hume. In UAE, European based Bellotte and Godfrey got very little playing time, while NA based Lemire and Matondo played much more. Even Bruno played near as much as Bellotte and Godfrey.

This is one of the reason why Canada can never, ever score more then 1 goals in these types of final competitions other then PK as they have in the past years. They are not prepared under this type of direction. So how can you win when you need goals to advance. An Unfortunately misrepresentation on the part of all Canadians that their best Canadian was sent home while others who are pushed and have nothing to show for it, further not experienced enough to say the least for this type of competation.

[Guest Jeffery S.]

Not having Julian disturbs me a bit, as there are biases amongst our training staffs that are hard to understand. I also wonder why the kids at Cruz Azul got such short shrift.

And then we go an complain that we are not ready to go into Central America and qualify.

Sure, we did with this group. But I did get to see two games, and thought we were outplayed by Honduras. Mexico was lazy against us, but still could have done better. We had no midfield, little ball control, and are quite poor at tempering a match. I sure hope we can get an inspirational game vs Syria, use our physical and club know-how, and get on a run.

In any case, I agree that the poor results are good motivation, for the players and for Dale. And I do admit that Mitchell has done quite well for us, let him have his intuition, as it has often worked. Still expectant, but I do sympathise with those wondering about Uccello.

[Alberto]

Jeffrey S.

you are correct on all counts. Your interpretation re Honduras and Mexico, is very much correct in fact I saw it the same way you did Mexico played so bad that even the 5 or 6 place tier here in Italy could have beaten them.

Let look at what have they achieved since the last under 20 took place.

Lets see what shows currently they have scored about 13 goals since the last YC, 2 goals Hughes scored and is not there that leaves 11 in over 18 matches. They have had almost double that in goals against. Aside from Gyaki 4 goals and roselund 2 goals 2 goals by johnson.

Out of the rest of their 15 players players they have 3 goals to share in the 18 games 3 are forwards, and 5 from midfielder they have yet to score a goal and you tell me this is motivation for his players. PLEASE enlighten me.

Give me something to suggest anything different.

Jeffrey you right I always said a little Mexican is good too to add to the team why not.

[footyfanatic01]

I am not terribly distressed with the result, the only thing that troubles me is the 2 late goals. I have a hunch we will do very well in the WYC, Dale's done a lot of good for Canada. Only thing that troubles me is our goal scoring, we have no goal poachers, we have no one that has a definete eye for the goal. I think Ucello would of fit into Dale's system nicely.

And as for you Alberto, don't condemn Dale Mitchell until we see the results of the WYC. Maybe He made the right decision by not picking Ucello, maybe He didnt...we'll see wont we?

[Alberto]

quote:Originally posted by footyfanatic01

I

And as for you Alberto, don't condemn Dale Mitchell until we see the results of the WYC. Maybe He made the right decision by not picking Ucello, maybe He didnt...we'll see wont we?

Yes of course time will tell, and I am not condemning the manager of Canada at all. He makes his choice, as he see it. Your right maybe he did, maybe he did not, but based on this forum comments of

1) Lack of team out put of scoring,

2) Players stats

3) Motivation of a player

4) Experience

I am only stating a fact. Yes it is disturbing to me how he could have let this happen on these points for players like Julian or Huges, I am assuming Rivas, as one that has been mentioned in Mexico. These players the 2 players that I know of put together would have moved Canada experience to a higher level, and just maybe the right combition of Strikers I think to push them over the top as far as I am concerned to get in the the next two rounds of 16 and 8.

And I do not think any one can tell me differently as per the items I mentioned above from 1-4 and those are the facts.

Respect and recognition goes a long way I think for these players..

Plus this would have been their only and last opportunity to enjoy the ups and down of the team as they are both 1986 and 1985 players and do not qualify for the next round of 2007.

That's all im am saying right or wrong It is my opinion as I see it based on facts and issues on hand of this forum. No pun intended on the manager of the u20 team.

This forum is no different then the one is here trust me its much worse here for a manager of any club.

[sj]

Once again we are leaving things too late to make any adjustmeent or fine tuning

by leaving it so close to the actual tournament to prepare the team

overtrain could be a factor fatigue and stress could lead into injury and mental breakdown

at this stage the team composition and tactics should already be in place and being fine tuned in training.

its all wrong to be still juggling with the line up it all should be about chemistry within at least the starting eleven.

if we dont have that yet then the preparation has not done its real purpose.

The US team is in a relax mood and are training for their first mainly lightly they have done the home work early

They had a plan and vision the very first time they assembled the team together for regional qualification and making sure that the team is in the upmost condition from the get go.

The CSA always does things at the last minute and hope that the opposite team has a bad game to sneak thru instead of winning on their own merits.

we should expect a technically sound Syrian team thats loaded with players that can run circles around our own players and also they will be a cohesive unit that will keep pressing if we take more of a defensive posture instead of usual unwillingness to take the intiative to olay offensive soccer.

as for the Exclusion of Uccello will it really have hurt the program if he was kept on the team and we get upset and wonder why the better players choose to play or other countries.

once again we seem to put more emphasis on loading the team with defenders with only 4 forwards that give us an idea of what kind of tactics will be in place.

our various men's team suffer from a shortage of genuine forwards and yet yet prefer to keep and work with the bare bone possible at intented fifa youth players development tournament such as the U 17 and U20 world cup

how do you expect the forwards to develop within the national program when out of 22 players we only carry 4 only one more that the goalkeepers

the purpose of those exhibition games should have been used to review

different aspect of our game if the players are tired because of extensive last minutes training and evaluation then it reduced it effectivenest to a point where the execution is not there and insert doubts within the team instead of confidence and has been the main factor of our teams total meltdown in the confidence booster ever so important first game that set the tone for the rest of the qualifying phase.

[beachesl]

quote:Originally posted by sj

Once again we are leaving things too late to make any adjustmeent or fine tuning

by leaving it so close to the actual tournament to prepare the team

overtrain could be a factor fatigue and stress could lead into injury and mental breakdown

at this stage the team composition and tactics should already be in place and being fine tuned in training.

its all wrong to be still juggling with the line up it all should be about chemistry within at least the starting eleven.

if we dont have that yet then the preparation has not done its real purpose.

The US team is in a relax mood and are training for their first mainly lightly they have done the home work early

They had a plan and vision the very first time they assembled the team together for regional qualification and making sure that the team is in the upmost condition from the get go.

The CSA always does things at the last minute and hope that the opposite team has a bad game to sneak thru instead of winning on their own merits.

we should expect a technically sound Syrian team thats loaded with players that can run circles around our own players and also they will be a cohesive unit that will keep pressing if we take more of a defensive posture instead of usual unwillingness to take the intiative to olay offensive soccer.

as for the Exclusion of Uccello will it really have hurt the program if he was kept on the team and we get upset and wonder why the better players choose to play or other countries.

once again we seem to put more emphasis on loading the team with defenders with only 4 forwards that give us an idea of what kind of tactics will be in place.

our various men's team suffer from a shortage of genuine forwards and yet yet prefer to keep and work with the bare bone possible at intented fifa youth players development tournament such as the U 17 and U20 world cup

how do you expect the forwards to develop within the national program when out of 22 players we only carry 4 only one more that the goalkeepers

the purpose of those exhibition games should have been used to review

different aspect of our game if the players are tired because of extensive last minutes training and evaluation then it reduced it effectivenest to a point where the execution is not there and insert doubts within the team instead of confidence and has been the main factor of our teams total meltdown in the confidence booster ever so important first game that set the tone for the rest of the qualifying phase.

sj has raised some good points and basic principles. However, to jump to Dale's defence somewhat, he has, unlike Yallop in the WCQ, developed and maintained a basic team since December, one that has proven it's strength in the qualifying tournament in late January in Honduras and one that he has largely kept together and trained/played with.

Perhaps it is true that he has not brought in enough new key players, especially the untried "Mexican club players" and especially on the forward positions, but basically we can't have it both ways.

Also, he has probably made some evaluation to his best possible effect with the resources he has available to him. We don't know the full reasons behind Dale's decisions on leaving players in and out, but total commitment and availabilty to the team (especially after the Hughes debacles over the past 2 1/2 years) has had to be an important factor (for example, a hitherto absent De Jong has proven his important contribution to the team in actual national performnances, Ucello through his potential), I am not going to question Dale's decisions in this regard severely, even if I respect the knowledgeable comments of posters such as our good friend Alberto. I believe in as full transparency as possible (which was largely missing in the senior WCQ campaign), but any fuller transparency than that given out so far in the U-20 campaign would be inapropriate at this point, especially given respect for all the players in the process.

As for the friendlies this week and possible over-exertion of the players, that is debatable, as we have to achieve a certain level of performance right up to the tournament. this is always a difficult balnce to assess, especially from a distance.

Dale has apparently developed a consistent system (and no system is ever perfect) that we could only have dreamed about having for the senior team in the WCQ's. We know what the basic product is that we will see on the field, and he has shown rational tactics and strategy. I feel good about this team and its prospects in Holland, notwithstanding concerns I may share with others here about particular individual decisions or coaching philosophy.

Go boys, and Dale, we are behind you!

[Observer]

Sorry to say this but the crticism is not even "armchair critics." I constantly read these pages and the people talking and being critical have never seen the players mentioned play (at an International Level). They have never seen the team play (at an International Level). No discussion with the coach or staff involved.

Yet there is analysis. Based on what? A player who scores goals in the OYSL or BCYL??? Come now! If you are football peoples you should know better. There are many factors involved of which we will never know or understand. Some players disrupt a team chemistry if they do not start or are asked to perform duties beneficial for the team (for example). Some may have never performed well when given the opportunity, regardless how they play for their club. I cannot be critical of anyone without actually seeing them or the team they play for. If I go simply by written reports, I will ask this question. In the games Huges has played for Canada how many times has he scored. Here is another example, look at the senior team and their WC campaign. How many players that were playing well with their clubs, performed below par for their country. I can think of 3 who should have been the leaders, yet had consistently poor outings. Yet Sandro who no one on the board listed as a potential selection, stepped up and played better than the players who are with big clubs in Europe.