89's and 88's.

[footyfanatic01]

Hey guys,

I am new to this forum, and am looking forward to being an active part of this "family". Anyways, I'm just wondering what you guys have seen of the current 88 and 89's in either the CSA or NTC programs. Thanks:D

[ditty]

The top 89 in Alberta, in my opinion, is Shaun Saiko with Edmonton Juventus. Really creative midfielder. As far as 88s in Alberta, Harman Braich out of Edmonton is strong defender.

[footyfanatic01]

Have you heard of Alexander Hanne in Calgary? The Edmonton Juventus team is a very good team. They have 4 or 5 top level players, that could probably play on the 88 provincial team.

[ditty]

quote:Originally posted by footyfanatic01

Have you heard of Alexander Hanne in Calgary? The Edmonton Juventus team is a very good team. They have 4 or 5 top level players, that could probably play on the 88 provincial team.

Yeah, Hanne is a really skilled attacking player. There's a couple of other stand out 89s that I know of in Calgary, Brett Colvin and Carson Pryde at Foothills.

[footyfanatic01]

quote:Originally posted by ditty

Yeah, Hanne is a really skilled attacking player. There's a couple of other stand out 89s that I know of in Calgary, Brett Colvin and Carson Pryde at Foothills.

Hanne is, in my opinion, the best striker in Alberta but Brett Colvin doesn't stand out that much and Carson Pryde is a very strong defender. Any other standouts?

[Ricardo06]

These guys aren't even in NTC. These players with exception to Braich and Saiko aren't even close to playing internationally. My view is the only players capable of playing internationally in Alberta is Mario Pannizon, Bruno Napoleao, Harman Braich, Curtis Ridley, Zac Kalthoff for 88's Canada. Saiko, Eddie Sidra, and the juve goalie for the 89's. Saiko is a good player with plenty of potential but is not comparable to the 88 midfielders in the rest of the country.

I watched the vancouver the camp the 88's had last year back then.

The top players were:

Kyle Oliveira

Bruno Napoleao

Zac Kalthoff

Keegan Ayre

Shane Lamme

Shaun Clark

[Ivan]

Ricardo, how is Napoleao coming along with that leg injury you told us about a month or so ago?

[footyfanatic01]

Bruno is the top defender for 88's for sure. He has HUGE potential to go very far in soccer. It's funny how you guys name all Edmonton. Even Hargreaves himself didn't make Alberta or NTC. Maybe I am just biased living in Calgary, but I think Alex Hanne is the best thing to come along to ASA in a while. He has great pace, a very good shot, and good skill. What about Daniel Nowak on NTC?

[Ricardo06]

Napoleao when through surgery just a couple of weeks ago. I spoke with him during the Mini World Cup and he told me he should be resuming play at the end of the month. He said he won't be able to participate in Qualifying due to his recovery period and would very much like to focus on the World Cup if Canada qualifies. He also mentioned plans about going to Brazil for the summer. Perhaps trials for some teams, i dunno. I'll try to find out next time I speak with him.

I don't know any Daniel Nowak. I do know that if he is in NTC, he does not stand out all that much. I've watched almost every scouting weekend of the prairies in the past 3 years. In the prairies, the best players in NTC are:

Shaun Saiko (89)

Bruno Napoleao (88)

Chris Schimdt (87)

Tos Ricketts (87)

Kyle Bartkus (87)

Mario Pannizon (88)

Harman Braich (88)

Amuri Kapongo (88)

Kerr Mcloud (87)

Zac Kalthoff (88)

I dunno why most of the good players are from Edmonton. Happens every year. For 87,88,89, there's nobody that tops these guys. I say that very confidently.

[Ricardo06]

Forgot to add Curtis Ridley (88)

[ditty]

quote:Originally posted by Ricardo06

Forgot to add Curtis Ridley (88)

All the players you listed are obviously quality but I have never seen NTC/ASA involvement as the be all and end all of rating a youth player. At least in the Calgary NTC, there are a few kids that are hardly standouts that find themselves selected for NTC.

[Ivan]

Is Kalthoff no longer with Southampton?

[footyfanatic01]

quote:Originally posted by ditty

All the players you listed are obviously quality but I have never seen NTC/ASA involvement as the be all and end all of rating a youth player. At least in the Calgary NTC, there are a few kids that are hardly standouts that find themselves selected for NTC.

Yeah, that's true. There's even a player on Juventus who is top 3 midfield in alberta for 89s that doesnt even play ASA

[footyfanatic01]

quote:Originally posted by ditty

All the players you listed are obviously quality but I have never seen NTC/ASA involvement as the be all and end all of rating a youth player. At least in the Calgary NTC, there are a few kids that are hardly standouts that find themselves selected for NTC.

Yeah, that's true. There's even a player on Juventus who is top 3 midfield in alberta for 89s that doesnt even play ASA

[footyfanatic01]

What about Alexander Hanne? Any of you guys heard of him? He could easily be NTC but for some reason he hasn't been picked because, in my opinion, the Calgary ASA coaches aren't very good.

[footyfanatic01]

What about Alexander Hanne? Any of you guys heard of him? He could easily be NTC but for some reason he hasn't been picked because, in my opinion, the Calgary ASA coaches aren't very good.

[Ricardo06]

Kalthoff is with Southampton presently. I think he left sometime last month to join the U16 Youth side. He don't believe he has a apprentice contract yet which will be decided next year. He's playing for the U16 youth side.

It is true that the scouting for ASA and NTC is a bit fishy especially in the prairies. However, they always select at least 95% of the players that should actually be there. However, I can assure you that in Edmonton for the 87's and 88's, they haven't missed anyone. I don't know about the 89's and 90's, I'm not familiar with their bigshots.

There's a lot of things in NTC which need to be changed. It often gets a bad image in the Prairies. But better to have NTC then no NTC.

I don't know any Alexander Hanne. What team does he play for and what age group?

[footyfanatic01]

He plays SWU Arsenal U-16 Div 1 (Alex Hanne). NTC Prairies is very fishy on the Calgary side. Oh and if your wondering Daniel Nowak plays NTC 89 (He is a Calgary player). IMO He is the best 89 Defender in alberta.

[footyfanatic01]

Also, just look at Calgary ASA there are 4-5 players that are not Alberta quality...while there are some that should DEFINETLY be there. Something fishy going on there.

[Ricardo06]

I think the scouting for NTC is very poor. I only recall NTC coaches watching some provincial team games and nationals. There's seems to be a lack of continuous monitoring of the region's top prospects. In the past, I've seen many players go unseen because of a lack of scouting. To rely solely on the provincial teams and provincial coach referrals is significantly risky when the provincial system already lacks the required effiency and organization which the modern game demands.

[fishman]

I don't know if I should wade in on this subject...I will come across as biased, but hey, aren't we all?

I have been a provincial team head coach for several years, and have good friends involved as coaches / administrators with the NTC. So I have a reasonably good perspective from which to make some judgements.

I will start with scouting - at least in my province, the Select team coaches are paid a very, VERY small honorarium. This bursary doesn't come close to covering even the gasoline required to shuttle about. As such, coaches need to be selective in the matches / tournaments they scout. They do, however, scout...and many regularly liaise with club coaches and TDs.

Tryouts are open - they are NOT invitational. Anyone can attend...this has its pros and cons, to be sure. I won't go into the long list of each - they should be obvious. I will limit it to one each...a positive is that club coaches can't collude to only send their choices, which are often clouded by favoritism and parental pressure. On the negative side, it often results in turnouts of over 100 athletes.

Tough sledding with those numbers, right? So you are left with the scouting you have done in advance, which is often imperfect. This is especially problematic at the youngest ages - the best prospects often don't have a chance to show or some others have hit early growth and show better than they would in years to come.

I won't get too long winded...I will try and throw out what I believe might be an answer to improved talent identification.

(1) The NTC needs to liaise more often with club and provincial programs. I can say with certainty that they are now doing this. When a coach with credentials and a reputation for talent ID contacts the NTC, they listen. They come and scout players. they bring players in for evaluations. They travel to and monitor provincial team winter training. But this needs to continue - I trust this isn't a fleeting thing they are doing.

(2) The number of younger players - 1990 - 92s - they are training and monitoring has increased substantially. They recognize the need to train and work with younger players.

(3) At the provincial level (at least in my province), there needs to be more work done by paid senior coaches. They do not, except for provincials and the odd tournament, scout. It would be so beneficial to employ a coach in each province / geographic area whose role was to monitor and evaluate players - a director of talent identification / player evaluation type of thing.

(4) More coaches in paid positions at the club level - most regions have now realized the benefit in having professionals administer elite programs. For too long, Mom and Dad have tried to train players and manage matches, with little formal training. It takes time, money and effort to become a highly certified coach. The incentive to do so for solely volunteer work is very low. Sorry, but that is a reality.

Sports management professionals know that the most critical thing, the one area that cries out for attention when one speaks of player development is COACHING DEVELOPMENT. If all you had was $1, give it to coaching education. I saw another thread - what would you do if you had $10,000,000.

I presume that was only for soccer purposes...as such, give it to coaching education. Want a better student? Get better teachers with better resources. Only makes sense. So why isn't the same maxim applied to sport in this country?

[Daniel]

It seems they're playing a couple of friendlies against Scotland U16 in Toronto on April 14th and 16th, with camp opening tomorrow.

http://www.rds.ca/soccer/chroniques/176307.html

4 QC players are on the team (only ones named in the article)

Fabrice Lassonde (Cosmos de Granby)

Alex Surprenant (Cosmos de Granby)

Sean Rosa (Montréal Concordia)

Marc-André Laplante (C.S. Lanaudière) 15 y/o goalkeeper

[Ricardo06]

I do agree that coaching development in Canada is quite mediocre. I mean I see parents take a weekend coaching course and now suddenly they are qualified to coach various teams and considers themselves to be an expert of the game. In south america, there are associations where you must study for a period of 3 years to obtain a coaching license almost as if your working for a university degree where the program is very well developed. I don't expect Canada to adapt this level of coaching development rite away but there is no excuse for not striving to achieve such important aspects of the game. Even in the provincial program in Alberta, out of the 8 boys and girls select teams, perhaps only 4 head coaches are qualified to coach the teams with almost every assistant coach being absolutely ridiculous. Even in all of alberta, there are only roughly 10-13 coaches who can be considered as quality coaches. That's obviously a big problem. I've seen good coaches part away from the provincial programs because they don't wish to associate themselves with a pathetic association. It's very sad. However, I do commend those coaches who stick in and try to contribute as much as possible to the game.

I understand provinces like Quebec, BC, and Ontario have a superior availability of better coaches while this problem is magnified in the rest of Canada.

As for scouting in the NTC's, there's no excuse for a lack of scouting at national level. In the Edmonton hub, there are 4 full time coaches and 2-3 part time ones. I could excuse a lack of scouting in Calgary because of the relative distance to travel. However, the scouting in Edmonton should be a lot better then it is presently. When you got 7 coaches under your pocket, I could confidently say that is not that hard to scout the 4 age groups of girls and boys. And that's even without the scouts of the provincial program. I recall only 2 scouts in Edmonton who constantly have their eye open in various games. John Walker and Leo McAndry. For two people, they do a lot of work but they still aren't able to see all prospects. These guys are only with the provincial program. Where's the NTC presence? There's needs to be a NTC scout at every winter training session for the provincial teams. It is only once per week most of the time, so there's no excuse to miss it. There needs to be constant communication between the NTC staff with the provincial team staff at least in a weekly basis. There needs to be better intregation between the winter training programs and the NTC. It seems like 4-5 players are scouted during nationals then that's it, wait til next nationals to pick-up another 4-5 players. There should be trials with players where they train for a week and maybe he's in or out. To touch on another point, the broad age group spreads in the NTC really kills the program. You got guys born in 87 training with guys born in 90. It helps the younger players develop but for 88's and 87's it is really detrimental taking away their incentive. My opinion is NTC is only a good tool for 1st and 2nd year players, after that it blows. to correct this problem they could for each age group select the best prospects which is usually 4-5 players then they could also invite the next 4-5 best players from that age group which can be called trialists. Then you could divide the players into a senior category and a junior category. The seniors being 87's and 88's and the juniors being 89's and 90's. This would avoid unseen players not being scouted, would magnify the potential of different players (the worst trialist can develop to become the top prospect of his age), the monitoring on nearly all prospects is done on a daily basis. I don't why they don't adapt such a system.

[footyfanatic01]

Nice post Ricardo and Fishman. I totally agree. The problem with ASA and even NTC right now, is coaching, and scouting. Ricardo posts a valid point, NTC coaches for instance came to Calgary ONCE during how many weeks 10-16? The point is NTC and ASA for that matter needs to be constantly scouting, looking for potential not just seeing the odd game and judging on "reputation" or whatever.

Also, ASA right now is a joke, i will be the first to admit that. The coaching is brutal. I know a couple of coach's that don't even WANT to be associated with ASA (as they were coaches in the past), because of how poorly it is run. It's quite said actually, Alberta is primarily the 4th best province in the world, when we have the potential to be very good.

On another note, it's quite obvious Edmonton is better then Calgary (for sure in the 90-88 age group). Why is that? Will any of you be at the 2005-2006 provincials for outdoor (this coming season) either watching or scouting?

[fishman]

I stepped away from the ASA coaching staff for precisely the reasons thrown about. It is handled without a clear vision, and is successful despite itself.

Very recently, ASA added a scouting database to its website - that is a step in the right direction. But there needs to be an actual process put in place, one followed by each coach with some trackability to it.

Regarding the NTC - there are Calgary based (Peter Malakoane) staff coaches there. If you wish to ask him questions about why he, or others, aren't more active with scouting, visit their website (www.ntcprairies.com) and contact him, or Sean Fleming, or whomever.

Be mindful of one thing - there are several TDs and academies in Calgary that are very, very controlling of their players. They strongly advise them not to attend provincial trials or accept invitations to the NTC. These are well paid individuals who have an agenda all their own...and parents buy into their program. They pay gobs of cash to attend academies, and want to believe that it is money well spent. How many of these academy coaches and TDs are going to be honest with their assessments when Mom and Dad are footing serious bills?

Nah...they will tell them they don't need the provincial program, they don't need NTC, that they will get scouted nationally despite not being in those groups. Really? Because CSA staff coaches come and scout club games on a Sunday? Come on...everyone, in every job, has a limited number of hours in a week.

So if Ian Bridge is looking at potential players, or Stephen Hart, yeah, sure, they are gonna wander down to the local indoor centre on a January morning and scout. Yup, fly on in from Vancouver or Toronto to do that. They can't! So they scout All-Star Nationals, and maybe Club Nationals, and watch scouting weekends at the NTC, and hope to see the best available.

Edmonton is better off, because there isn't the glut of white-collar academies selling a player development model that doesn't include the provincial program or NTC. It is a rarity in Edmonton to hear of a club coach (though it does happen) recommend to his/her players to not attend trials for the provincial team. As such, many of the best players (almost all, actually) are one, or have tried out for, the provincial program.

I can name a girls' team in Calgary that would have at least 8 players on the provincial team if its academy would permit their attendance at trials. Instead, well, they only play club, and the province is all the weaker.

Hey, I believe a process should be put in place that allows easier dialogue between the CSA / NTC, the ASA and the club coaches. To ensure that quality players are identified early enough and properly trained. But to do that, Moms and Dads will have to put out more money in registration to have better qualified coaching, so that when the CSA / NTC or the ASA staff coaches talk with the club people, they know they are talking to qualified people. Think about this: would a journeyman electrician listen to advice about wiring a massive office complex from a person that has only watched home reno shows?

We need better coaches at the grassroots level.