Anders Frisk (+ English stuff)

[juaninho]

As some may know, Anders Frisk has retired due to some delusional nut threatening the life of his family and himself. UEFA is trying to get him to reconsider. Second referee to retire in less then a year due to threats, the other being Urs Meier.

Here's a link:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/4344839.stm

[marcl_19]

Both of them are world class referees. hopefully he will reconsider

[amacpher]

And hopefully Mourinho will reconsider the next time he thinks about opening his mouth. Unlikely though...

[River City]

quote:Originally posted by amacpher

And hopefully Mourinho will reconsider the next time he thinks about opening his mouth. Unlikely though...

While the media may blame Mourinho, the only ones to blame are the idiots who take the sport so seriously as to threaten the safety of a referee (or coach as happened with Mourinho, or players).

In Mourinho's defense, his press conferences (or lack of) are meant to give his team the best possible advantage. After the game in Barcelona, his decision not to speak to the media and blame Riikjard for influencing the Referee were meant to draw all attention from the Chelsea players and put it all on him.

Chelsea were able to concentrate on their jobs rather than deal with the immense media scrutiny other teams would have to deal with. As for Mourinho, he has a long record of hearings, disciplinary procedures, media pressure as a result of his actions. For him, these are part and parcel of building a strong team.

Perhaps the media should look at themselves first in terms of who's whipping up hysteria. Especially the British tabloids.

[Massive Attack]

Am I the only one that thinks Anders Frisk is actually a poor ref? Too often he becomes the focus of attention during the game, whereas the best refs go unnoticed.

Mind you, this still doesn't make the death threats any more acceptable.

[ditty]

quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack

Am I the only one that thinks Anders Frisk is actually a poor ref? Too often he becomes the focus of attention during the game, whereas the best refs go unnoticed.

Mind you, this still doesn't make the death threats any more acceptable.

He certainly gets a lot of face time but I think this has more to do with his style and appearance than the type of game he calls (ie Collina). He's quite gregarious, always smiling or scowling so I think that's the reason. He's a favourite of many refs because he seems to enjoy letting games fall close to the edge and you never see too many soft calls from him. He lets the two teams hammer each other and never seems preoccupied with a game getting out of control.

So yeah, I think he's one of the world's best.

[amacpher]

quote:Originally posted by ditty

He certainly gets a lot of face time but I think this has more to do with his style and appearance than the type of game he calls (ie Collina). He's quite gregarious, always smiling or scowling so I think that's the reason. He's a favourite of many refs because he seems to enjoy letting games fall close to the edge and you never see too many soft calls from him. He lets the two teams hammer each other and never seems preoccupied with a game getting out of control.

So yeah, I think he's one of the world's best.

I think we're talking about Frisk while you're talking about Collina!?

Anyway, the Mendes red-card was a good call. Not sure if Frisk made the call or a linesman though.

[ditty]

quote:Originally posted by amacpher

I think we're talking about Frisk while you're talking about Collina!?

Anyway, the Mendes red-card was a good call. Not sure if Frisk made the call or a linesman though.

Collina is in a class of his own when it comes to appearance, how can you not notice the guy? Nonetheless, Frisk is still a very expressive guy and his matches seem to be eventful more often than not.

[amacpher]

quote:Originally posted by River City

While the media may blame Mourinho, the only ones to blame are the idiots who take the sport so seriously as to threaten the safety of a referee (or coach as happened with Mourinho, or players).

Well, there's no place for idiots like that in football. But then again, Jose knows they're out there.

quote:

In Mourinho's defense, his press conferences (or lack of) are meant to give his team the best possible advantage. After the game in Barcelona, his decision not to speak to the media and blame Riikjard for influencing the Referee were meant to draw all attention from the Chelsea players and put it all on him.

Maybe it would be better if Jose came up with non-fiction stories to tell his team in order to help them gain an advantage.

quote:

Perhaps the media should look at themselves first in terms of who's whipping up hysteria. Especially the British tabloids.

Nope, can't blame the media on this one. Accusing the opposing manager of visiting the referee's dressing-room at halftime is gonna whip up hysteria no matter where you are. Jose knew that.

The only good thing to come out of this is that its gonna make things so much sweeter when Jose's world starts caving in. Remember, Chelsea are not "this good". They're way ahead of Arsenal and United because of Gilberto's injury and numerous United injuries early in the season. And they needed a bogus call to beat a Barca team that has been in shaky form since the winter break.

[River City]

I get the feeling someone doesn't like Mourinho or Chelsea.....

If someone has an issue with the way coaches manipulate the media for their own ends, that's fine. But please realize that's never going to change. And if you're going to go after Mourinho, then Ferguson and Wenger must be blamed too. As should the media. Are you really exonerating the British tabloids for the Urs Meier retirement? Mourinho had nothing to do with that one.

I will wait until the UEFA report comes out regarding Chelsea's claim before I pass judgement on it, but as a rule no manager (including Ferguson) should be talking to the Referee until after the match is over.

What will make it sweeter for me and will undoubtedly annoy all the 'haters' ( I believe this is the proper slang word) is when Chelsea wins the Premiership handily and reinforce themselves this summer better than Arsenal or Man U.

[amacpher]

quote:Originally posted by River City

I get the feeling someone doesn't like Mourinho or Chelsea.....

If someone has an issue with the way coaches manipulate the media for their own ends, that's fine. But please realize that's never going to change. And if you're going to go after Mourinho, then Ferguson and Wenger must be blamed too. As should the media. Are you really exonerating the British tabloids for the Urs Meier retirement? Mourinho had nothing to do with that one.

What will make it sweeter for me and will undoubtedly annoy all the 'haters' ( I believe this is the proper slang word) is when Chelsea wins the Premiership handily and reinforce themselves this summer better than Arsenal or Man U.

I think Jose is good for football. Cuz even if you hate him it'll be so sweet when he loses. But the EPL race is already over. I'm not sure how that makes it sweet for haters of Jose-naysayers though. It only proves that 210 million pounds can beat two injury riddled clubs. Who knew... [8)]

I don't think you can compare SAF and Wenger to Jose. Although often childish in their disputes with each other, SAF and Wenger's #1 goal isn't to wind-up opposing fans (even if that does ultimately happen indirectly thru the media or what have you). Same cannot be said for Jose who has made it clear thru some of his actions, that his main objective is to make opposing fans irate (Carling Cup final "shhh", the double-finger salute as leaving Old Trafford pitch after Porto knocked-out Man United, etc).

[River City]

quote:Originally posted by amacpher

Just out of curiosity, did you feel the same way when other clubs were buying their way to greatness, or do you just don't like Chelsea?

Roman has spent a lot of money on some overpriced players, but Mourinho has been able to get everything out of his players unlike Wenger or Ferguson. You state that Chelsea only has the lead they have because other teams have faltered. Isn't that part of the reason why some teams win? Isn't it usually a combination of having a good squad and the opposition make the occasional mistakes? Didn't Man U win some chamionships that way?

And as for Mourinho, his number one goal isn't to wind up the opposing fans. It's to win. Which he has and has done so with modest resources up against supposedly better teams like Man U. You can argue with feelings and opinions, but you can't argue with facts.

[amacpher]

quote:Originally posted by River City

Just out of curiosity, did you feel the same way when other clubs were buying their way to greatness, or do you just don't like Chelsea?

I couldn't tell you since Chelsea's spending spree is unprecedented. Madrid might be in the same general ballpark and, yes, I hate them too.

quote:Originally posted by River City

Roman has spent a lot of money on some overpriced players, but Mourinho has been able to get everything out of his players unlike Wenger or Ferguson. You state that Chelsea only has the lead they have because other teams have faltered. Isn't that part of the reason why some teams win? Isn't it usually a combination of having a good squad and the opposition make the occasional mistakes? Didn't Man U win some chamionships that way?

I never said Arsenal and Man U have faltered. Altho, Vieira has been disappointing and Cygan is a train-wreck at the back. But every team has players who under-perform including Chelsea. Man U definitely haven’t faltered or underperformed this season as a whole. The difference in the 2 team’s records comes entirely within the first couple of months of the season when United were ravaged with injuries. Jose hasn’t yet come close to proving that he’s better than Wenger or SAF. Just like Ranieri didn’t prove he’s better than SAF last season despite finishing ahead of United. It’s only one year. Once Jose turns a Brazilian taxi driver into a Brazilian NT member (Edu) or creates one of the best strikers in the planet out of a serie A reject (Henry), or wins 8 titles in 11 seasons like SAF, then Jose will have to right to talk shyte.

quote:

And as for Mourinho, his number one goal isn't to wind up the opposing fans. It's to win. Which he has and has done so with modest resources up against supposedly better teams like Man U. You can argue with feelings and opinions, but you can't argue with facts.

Modest resources? If by “modest” you mean “unlimited”, then I agree. Also Man U is not “supposedly better” than Chelsea. Since the mid point of last season, it’s the general opinion of EPL followers that Chelsea have a better squad than United top to bottom.

[amacpher]

quote:Originally posted by River City

Just out of curiosity, did you feel the same way when other clubs were buying their way to greatness, or do you just don't like Chelsea?

I couldn't tell you since Chelsea's spending spree is unprecedented. Madrid might be in the same general ballpark and, yes, I hate them too.

quote:Originally posted by River City

Roman has spent a lot of money on some overpriced players, but Mourinho has been able to get everything out of his players unlike Wenger or Ferguson. You state that Chelsea only has the lead they have because other teams have faltered. Isn't that part of the reason why some teams win? Isn't it usually a combination of having a good squad and the opposition make the occasional mistakes? Didn't Man U win some chamionships that way?

I never said Arsenal and Man U have faltered. Altho, Vieira has been disappointing and Cygan is a train-wreck at the back. But every team has players who under-perform including Chelsea. Man U definitely haven’t faltered or underperformed this season as a whole. The difference in the 2 team’s records comes entirely within the first couple of months of the season when United were ravaged with injuries. Jose hasn’t yet come close to proving that he’s better than Wenger or SAF. Just like Ranieri didn’t prove he’s better than SAF last season despite finishing ahead of United. It’s only one year. Once Jose turns a Brazilian taxi driver into a Brazilian NT member (Edu) or creates one of the best strikers in the planet out of a serie A reject (Henry), or wins 8 titles in 11 seasons like SAF, then Jose will have to right to talk shyte.

quote:

And as for Mourinho, his number one goal isn't to wind up the opposing fans. It's to win. Which he has and has done so with modest resources up against supposedly better teams like Man U. You can argue with feelings and opinions, but you can't argue with facts.

Modest resources? If by “modest” you mean “unlimited”, then I agree. Also Man U is not “supposedly better” than Chelsea. Since the mid point of last season, it’s the general opinion of EPL followers that Chelsea have a better squad than United top to bottom.

[River City]

1) I'm glad you don't have issues with just Chelsea (ignoring the same methodology used previously by other clubs)as a lot of other people have these days.

2) From my recollection, it was Arsenal that was burning up the victories and leading the pack in the EPL until Week 11, with Chelsea trying to organize their system of play in a close second. I'm assuming you're a Man U fan and your hostility towards Mourinho may stem from the fact that you're unhappy with Man U's loss of lead dog role in the EPL.

3) You claim that 'Jose hasn’t yet come close to proving that he’s better than Wenger or SAF'. Hello? Comparing the three head to head, Ferguson has had over a decade coaching United, has enjoyed a huge financial advantage over Porto. Wenger has done some good work with Arsenal and again, enjoying a nice financial advantage.

Mourinho, on the other hand, was barely starting with Porto (a team of modest means) and won the UEFA and then the Champion's League. Taking European competition as the most important in Europe (yes, more important than the EPL), Mourinho has accomplished more, especially since they beat Man U.

As for turning Edu from a taxi driver to a NT member, remember that Wenger didn't father him, give him talent, or did all the work. In regards to Henry, he is in good company in not being able to cut it in an environment like Serie A. Jose did however increase the talent levels of Carvalho, Ferreira, Deco, Maniche, etc.

Give Jose 11 years and I'm sure he'll put up similar numbers as Ferguson. Something tells me though, that even if Jose wins 11 titles in 11 years, you still won't stop talking shyte about him.

4)Modest Reosurces. I was referring to what Jose did with Porto, not Chelsea.

Bottom Line is that a lot of the arguments levelled against Mourinho also apply to Ferguson and Wenger (there's a lot of teams in the EPL that will never come close to reaching the financial clout of Man U or Arsenal, never mind Chelsea) and I don't think it's fair to single one out.

[amacpher]

quote:Originally posted by River City

2) From my recollection, it was Arsenal that was burning up the victories and leading the pack in the EPL until Week 11, with Chelsea trying to organize their system of play in a close second. I'm assuming you're a Man U fan and your hostility towards Mourinho may stem from the fact that you're unhappy with Man U's loss of lead dog role in the EPL.

Nah, I hate Man U. I like Arsenal in England, but that "like" largely stems from hating United (ie. I'd rather see both Arsenal and United struggle, than see them both win something). Yes, Chelsea only passed Arsenal when Gilberto got injured. If the same thing happened last year, then Ranieri (an awful coach) probably would have led Chelsea to the EPL title (or at least very close to it), with a weaker squad than what Jose has to work with this season. Chelsea's record last season was better than Arsenal's is this season.

quote:Originally posted by River City

3) You claim that 'Jose hasn’t yet come close to proving that he’s better than Wenger or SAF'. Hello? Comparing the three head to head, Ferguson has had over a decade coaching United, has enjoyed a huge financial advantage over Porto. Wenger has done some good work with Arsenal and again, enjoying a nice financial advantage.

Well, Arsenal is rich, but it's all relative. They're a modest team compared to United and certainly to Chelsea. But almost every player Wenger buys turns-out great. That's why they still compete better than equally rich clubs like Newcastle, Liverpool and Inter Milan.

quote:

Mourinho, on the other hand, was barely starting with Porto (a team of modest means) and won the UEFA and then the Champion's League. Taking European competition as the most important in Europe (yes, more important than the EPL), Mourinho has accomplished more, especially since they beat Man U.

That's simply untrue. The vast majority of clubs put a priority on their domestic championship (ahead of European endeavors). Altho maybe for Porto it's different since they've won two-thirds of the Portuguese titles since the mid 80's.

[River City]

Right, I see we can keep going on and on and on.

the way I look at it is pretty simple. If you divide the number of Champion's League trophies by the number of years coached, which coach is better? I'm not saying Ferguson or Wenger suck (hey, I'll take them to coach my division 3 team anyday), but you can't dismiss Mourinho as an upstart or lucky or because he now enjoys a seemingly unlimited transfer kitty.

As for Porto, yes they have won the majority of the championships in Portugal lately, but they haven't all been cakewalks. As neither has the EPL been with Ferguson.

[amacpher]

quote:Originally posted by River City

Right, I see we can keep going on and on and on.

the way I look at it is pretty simple. If you divide the number of Champion's League trophies by the number of years coached, which coach is better?

Unfortunately, that argument is seriously faulty. Someone who hits a home-run on the opening day of baseball season (an, hence, on a pace to hit 162 HR's/season) isn't better than Barry Bonds, necessarily.

I never said or implied that Jose sucks. He's good. I'd rate him at #4 among the EPL managers for instance (behind SAF, Arse and Sam Allardyce)

[River City]

The difference between striking a homerun on your first game and winning the Champion's League is pretty huge.

As skilled as you have to be to play baseball (I'm holding back the laughter), hitting a home run involves a great deal of luck (what pitch is thrown, wind conditions, seagulls flying nearby).

Winning the Champions League involves so many different factors that yes, luck plays a part, but any team relying on it won't be making it very far after the group stage. By your logic then, Man U were lucky to have won the UCL when they beat the Germans! But that is not the case. Ferguson had molded United into a solid squad, that had good conditioning (able to play at a high tempo in the latter parts of the game), organization and focus. They deserved to win it.

So that's why I think the UCL is the best method of comparing coaches. Speaking of which, I think Hector Cuper doesn't get the credit he deserves.

[Calgary Boomer]

Frisk is a poser. I heard the threat was even worse that what's being reported. The nut was going to take his hair product and tanning bed.

I don't trust people who wear their shorts that high.

[amacpher]

quote:Originally posted by River City

Winning the Champions League involves so many different factors that yes, luck plays a part, but any team relying on it won't be making it very far after the group stage.

Apparently, cheating now plays a part too! Yup, its been confirmed that "the Enemy of Football" lied about Rijkaard entering the ref's dressing-room during halftime of the first-leg. http://soccernet.espn.go.com/headlinenews?id=328390&cc=5901

[River City]

quote:Originally posted by amacpher

Apparently, cheating now plays a part too! Yup, its been confirmed that "the Enemy of Football" lied about Rijkaard entering the ref's dressing-room during halftime of the first-leg. http://soccernet.espn.go.com/headlinenews?id=328390&cc=5901

Hold on Nelly!

Confirmation would be when both parties state the same story. We still haven't heard from Mourinho or Chelsea (although one of their spokespersons saide they're expecting some minor fines). I guess in your haste to pass judgement you forgot your original premise of don't believe everything you hear/read.

As for cheating, did Mourinho pay off Collina? In my EDSA league games, if I could influence the referee assignments so I could get the best referees, I would! You still have to play the game and win it fair and square (which they did, didn't they?)

[amacpher]

quote:Originally posted by River City

Hold on Nelly!

Confirmation would be when both parties state the same story. We still haven't heard from Mourinho or Chelsea (although one of their spokespersons saide they're expecting some minor fines). I guess in your haste to pass judgement you forgot your original premise of don't believe everything you hear/read.

Well, the evidence looks overwhelming. Don't forget Frisk (who has no reason to lie) also denies any meeting with Rijkaard during the halftime. Of course, Jose will never admit he lied so I'm not gonna wait for that day before passing judgement. Nor do I have to...

quote:

As for cheating, did Mourinho pay off Collina? In my EDSA league games, if I could influence the referee assignments so I could get the best referees, I would! You still have to play the game and win it fair and square (which they did, didn't they?)

Well, not really actually.

But to answer your first question, altho I wouldn't put it past the Russian mob to do so, paying-off the ref is not the only way to cheat. Jose knew the risk when he made this false allegation. So why would he take that risk unless he knew it would give him an advantage?

[River City]

OK.

The whole thing centres on whether Rijkaard spoke with Frisk. If he didn't, then Mourinho is a liar, or Machievellian. If he did though, then Rijkaard should get the blame for putting himself in a potentially contentious position. Games with that much pressure and $$$$ should have some clear guidelines in terms of access to the refs (before, during and after the games).

I'm pasting one of the original reports I read (which is never mentioned anymore) as well as the link for you....

Chelsea Lodge Official Complaint After Mystery ‘Tunnel Incident’

2/24/2005 1:38:00 AM

Chelsea have made an official complaint to Uefa following an alleged incident in the players' tunnel at half-time in their 1-2 Champions League defeat by Barcelona.

Blues manager Jose Mourinho and the Chelsea players refused to attend the press conference after the game, but club spokesman Simon Greenberg said: "We will be submitting an official complaint to Uefa about an incident that occurred at half-time."

Chelsea were also angry that Didier Drogba was sent off.

Asked what happened in the tunnel, Barcelona coach Frank Rijkaard said he had spoken to referee Anders Frisk. "I just said hello," said Rijkaard, insisting that nothing untoward had happened.

He was critical of Chelsea coach Jose Mourinho for refusing to talk to the media.

“I am curious like you are what will be the complaint of Chelsea. This is not good behaviour.

"It’s the job of the coach to come out and speak to the media."

Barcelona’s midfielder Deco, who worked under Mourinho at Porto, felt it was not typical of the Portuguese coach to lodge a protest.

"It’s not normal behaviour on his part," he said. "It was not logical he did not give a press conference."

Rijkaard added: "Chelsea is the team which has conceded fewest goals in the English league and they defend very well so I am very pleased with the win.

"My men deserved victory and I am pleased to have won this match. I congratulate my players."

http://www.goal.com/NewsDetail.aspx?idNews=48759&idSez=1

Should Chelsea face a fine? Yes. For not showing up on time for the second half as well as not showing up for the press conference.

Did Mourinho know Chelsea would probably pay a fine? Most likely yes.

Should Chelsea be kicked out of the UCL as the UEFA guy said today? No.

As for Collina getting paid off, I think he's got the original mob behind him and if it came down to the Sicilians and the Russians, I'd put my money on the Sicilians.