River City Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 quote:Originally posted by amacpher But so what? That's the rule. Even your cohort admits Del Horno deserved to get sent off. So what? You disagreed with Manuel when he said Barcelona hasn't beaten Chelsea 11 v 11. That's what. You were wrong. Admit it. quote:Originally posted by amacpher Last year has nothing to do with it. The teams might be similar (similar, not the same) but Barca played better overall in the two matches this year compared to how they played last year against Chelsea. Whether they scored more goals 11 v 11 is not the point. Barca got *exactly* what they wanted in the Nou Camp (ie. a game with very few scoring chances) Last year's results were brought up to remind you that Chelsea has indeed beaten Barcelona 11 v 11. Something you said never happened. Although I think when you made that comment you were strictly referring to this year's competition. quote:Originally posted by amacpher Because we don't even know if the red card had any effect on the result in the first-leg. Are you serious? How many teams can beat Barcelona 11 v 11? Now, how many can beat them a man down? Chelsea and Barcelona are relatively even as both are in an elite group of teams (although yes I think Barça has a better skilled team) but you give one team an extra guy on the field and that will make the difference. quote:Originally posted by amacpher So that's not how you define a break. According to you. I disagree. quote:Originally posted by amacpher http://home20.inet.tele.dk/arsenalclips6/DHorno.gif [8)] Wow. Do you stay up all night watching this? You seem pretty fixated on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
River City Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S. I for the life of me don't understand how just because Mourinho is Portuguese those of that background have to defend him. First, not everybody in Portugal likes Mourinho, so not all Portuguese will defend him. I do defend him but it is not based on the fact he is Portuguese. I'm a Porto fan and regardless of what his coaching record is for the rest of his career, he has earned my respect and gratitude. He is a GREAT coach because of his achievements with Porto. Do I think he could be doing a better job with Chelsea? Of course. But he gets paid to win. Not win in style. Although that might be changing right away. quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S. So those of Portuguese blood take notice: you can be partisan to a point, but not the point of being whiners, complainers and poor loosers. Especially in sympathy to someone like that, he does not make Portugal proud Different coaching styles and personalities make the game better. Even if some coaches are assholes. quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S. That is pure cowardice, and I am sure it was incited by his coach, as Asier has never played like that. That's a pretty big accusation. Does that mean that anyone who makes a bad/dangerous/malicious tackle/gesture does so on orders of their respective coaches? Anyway, just to clarify things, I am a Barcelona fan and it pissed me off again this year the teams I wanted to see in the final had to meet again at the first elimination stage. I do however have a dislike for Rijkaard. I agree with you Jeffrey that Van Gaal played too many Dutch players. But remember that had a lot to do with Cruyff. Same reason Rijkaard got the job and he got rid of Saviola and Quaresma (yes, I know the kid has a serious attitude problem) and played half the Dutch national team. All and all though, I do think Mourinho is a better coach than Rijkaard. I recognize not everyone will agree, but to quote amacpher 'Open Your Eyes' and face the facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amacpher Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 quote:Originally posted by River City So what? You disagreed with Manuel when he said Barcelona hasn't beaten Chelsea 11 v 11. That's what. You were wrong. Admit it. I didn't disagree with him. I just said it was a stupid argument. quote:Are you serious? How many teams can beat Barcelona 11 v 11? Now, how many can beat them a man down? Chelsea and Barcelona are relatively even as both are in an elite group of teams (although yes I think Barça has a better skilled team) but you give one team an extra guy on the field and that will make the difference. I said it might not have had a difference on the result</u>. Barca could still win in Chelsea 11 v 11. Why not? In fact Chelsea's best chances in the game came when they had 10 men. http://home20.inet.tele.dk/arsenalclips6/DHorno.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 quote:Originally posted by River City First, not everybody in Portugal likes Mourinho, so not all Portuguese will defend him. I do defend him but it is not based on the fact he is Portuguese. I'm a Porto fan and regardless of what his coaching record is for the rest of his career, he has earned my respect and gratitude. He is a GREAT coach because of his achievements with Porto. Do I think he could be doing a better job with Chelsea? Of course. But he gets paid to win. Not win in style. Although that might be changing right away. Different coaching styles and personalities make the game better. Even if some coaches are assholes. That's a pretty big accusation. Does that mean that anyone who makes a bad/dangerous/malicious tackle/gesture does so on orders of their respective coaches? Anyway, just to clarify things, I am a Barcelona fan and it pissed me off again this year the teams I wanted to see in the final had to meet again at the first elimination stage. I do however have a dislike for Rijkaard. I agree with you Jeffrey that Van Gaal played too many Dutch players. But remember that had a lot to do with Cruyff. Same reason Rijkaard got the job and he got rid of Saviola and Quaresma (yes, I know the kid has a serious attitude problem) and played half the Dutch national team. All and all though, I do think Mourinho is a better coach than Rijkaard. I recognize not everyone will agree, but to quote amacpher 'Open Your Eyes' and face the facts. Well at least that was a decent reply to my irate comments. So thanks, and sorry for going overboard. I don't doubt Mourinho is a good coach, as without him I don't think half his players would look so sharp. But I still think with the money he has he should be buying better and strengthening his squad. He is really missing a midfielder able to move effectively between the lines and pretty well should be replacing both his strikers, unless he can find a way to make them score with the abilities they do have. Just a comment about the Dutch at Barça: in fact Johan only had Koeman, and his son of course, who was born in Catalonia and could have played for Spain even. It was Van Gaal that went wild with them. And regarding Rijkaard, he has a way to go as a coach still. I think he is not a great innovator, he has not really brought in revolutionary ideas like Johan did, but he has pretty good tactical sense, and has done okay adjusting players to needs. Having been a great defender in Italy, he has given us something we never had, a strong holding capacity even when attacking. But all that was learnt from the experience of the first four of Chelsea's five goals last year, a couple by Shevkenko in the group round last year, a winner by Fernando Torres at Camp Nou, and those few in Zaragoza this year in the cup, all on the counter. Hope we have finally solved that problem. Don't think though, we are going to have too many problems with Benfica, especially ending at home, but every rival deserves respect or else you can get knocked on your butt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manuel Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 I see the Euro 2004 Spainish arrogance thing all over again. I’ve read that people in Barcelona were dancing in the streets when they found out it was Benfica. They just think they are better than everyone. You have to show Benfica some respect. They have knocked out the reigning champions and Manchester United out of the competition. The history of these two teams is quite even with a win, a loss and a tie, with Benfica's win making them the Champions of Europe. I can't wait to see the faces of the Spanish fans once they loss to Benfica. It will bring back lovely memories of Spain & Portugal in Euro 2004. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amacpher Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Manuel I see the Euro 2004 Spainish arrogance thing all over again. I’ve read that people in Barcelona were dancing in the streets when they found out it was Benfica. They just think they are better than everyone. You have to show Benfica some respect. They have knocked out the reigning champions and Manchester United out of the competition. The history of these two teams is quite even with a win, a loss and a tie, with Benfica's win making them the Champions of Europe. I can't wait to see the faces of the Spanish fans once they loss to Benfica. It will bring back lovely memories of Spain & Portugal in Euro 2004. Amusing read. Don't know if they were dancing in the streets of Barcelona over this draw (sounds like a made-up rumour to me), but if they think their team is better than Benfica, well... they're right. Neither the reigning champions or Manchester United are on the same planet as Barcelona. Oh, and I think Benfica plays with more Brasilians than with Portugese and Barca plays with more Brasilians than Catalans, so you can relax. [] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manuel Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Yes Barca is the better team, but Benfica have the more famous history. And what are you telling me to relax about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Manuel I see the Euro 2004 Spainish arrogance thing all over again. I’ve read that people in Barcelona were dancing in the streets when they found out it was Benfica. They just think they are better than everyone. You have to show Benfica some respect. They have knocked out the reigning champions and Manchester United out of the competition. The history of these two teams is quite even with a win, a loss and a tie, with Benfica's win making them the Champions of Europe. I can't wait to see the faces of the Spanish fans once they loss to Benfica. It will bring back lovely memories of Spain & Portugal in Euro 2004. Those people dancing on the street this Friday in Barcelona were the Gunner fans who had flown in for a cheap weekend holiday. The only locals dancing just started a few minutes ago, when the early teenage nightlife window kicked in. Though it was up to maybe 16 degrees today, so the streets were nice enough to dance in. Barcelona is on paper superior to Benfica. Right now the only teams that could really make us nervous are the Italians, and even then we have more creative football than Juve, though Milan has great goal scoring. Give us the 2nd leg at home and we are happy about the draw. That and the semi-final draw also sees the 2nd leg at home. For once we did not get a terribly difficult draw, give us a break. Ask anyone in Lisbon and they'll tell you Barça was the absolutely last team they wanted to see, that they got the hardest possible draw in Europe today. Koeman knows this more than anyone, so do Simao and Geovanni. So try to be realistic. Noone is saying that the weaker team can't win, but noone in Barcelona is celebrating a quarter final draw in Europe either, that is totally laughable. So, then, tell me again how Benifica has a greater history than Barcelona, not to take anything away from Eusebio's team, but if you take a close look you'll see two teams with a comparable European/UEFA/Cup Winner's cup history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
River City Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Well, I just saw the draw results now....interesting stuff. I figured the winner of Chelsea - Barcelona would go on to win the whole thing, but then again that's what I thought last year.... I don't think Benfica will embarass themselves but they are definitely not in the same league as Barça. Barcelona should win, but if they take anything for granted, Koeman can spring some surprises. And no worries Jeffrey for 'going overboard'. Soccer is an emotional game and generates a wide variety of opinions. Nothing wrong with healthy debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 Still waiting to find out how Benfica has a more glorious history than Barça. I would, being fair, say they are similar in importance, but for a team that has not won a European trophy since the early years of black and white television to claim this is rather ridiculous. And for a team that won consistently under the Portuguese dictatorship and fell off under democracy to claim this is blindness, all Portugal knows that the "great" Benfica was the regime's team. And once the regime was gone, Benfica fell back considerably at home and in Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
River City Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 In all fairness, as much as I can't stand Benfica, they did put Portugal on the soccer map, even if it was by kidnapping Eusebio. Jeffrey, you know I like Barcelona, but their international trophy collection isn't anything to brag about. For the greatness that they've always had, they're way behind Real Madrid. And that's not good. I'm hoping they cut the difference this year with the CL trophy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 quote:Originally posted by River City In all fairness, as much as I can't stand Benfica, they did put Portugal on the soccer map, even if it was by kidnapping Eusebio. Jeffrey, you know I like Barcelona, but their international trophy collection isn't anything to brag about. For the greatness that they've always had, they're way behind Real Madrid. And that's not good. I'm hoping they cut the difference this year with the CL trophy. A European Cup and four Cup Winner's, not bad but below what it should be considering we are the only team in Europe to have never missed European Cup competition. Mostly on the basis of winning the Spanish cup and going into that competition. Very unlucky losing two of the three European Cups we did lose, including the one to Benfica where we hit four posts and the keeper scored an own goal in a close loss, but still, I agree that Barça should have another one or two in the case. Would also be nice to win the Intercontinental. Barça is the kind of team that tends to play way better than our ultimate results, and we are a side that needs to sweat to win anything even when quite superior to opponents, where others seem to know how to get on a lucky roll and win against the odds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manuel Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 In all fairness, Barcelona was the last team I wanted Benfica to be drawn against. I'm not an idiot, Barcelona is on an other planet compared to Benfica. But I did read on a Portuguese site the Barca fans were cheering when they heard it was Benfica they were drawn against. As for the history, Benfica have been to 6 finals, winning 2 and losing 4, where as Barca, if I'm not mistaken have been to three finals, losing 2 and winning 1. That to me looks like Benfica has had a better run of things than Barca has in this compition. I know you say Benfica won these back in the 60's, but that’s what history is. Real Madrid are the great champions of Europe, 6 of their 9 came in the first few years of the competition, but still they have the greatest history as far as this competition goes. I apologize, I wasn't taking the other competitions into consideration when I said that. As for defending Morihno, the way I look at it, growing up, with few things Portuguese to cheer about, I’m very proud when one does something special. I'm a Benfica fan, but I cheered for Porto in the Uefa, & Champions league, I cheered for Sporting last year in the Uefa, and I was proud when Figo won the player of the year. Aside from when Canada played Portugal, I will cheer for anything Portuguese. Even if it mean defending Morihno for being a suck at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amacpher Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 All-time records in Europe: (note: one bonus point is awarded for reaching QF, semis and final of a major european competition. Reaching group phase of CL is also one point) Barca- won:207 lost:90 bonus pts:78 trophies: 10 Benfica- won:127 loss:72 bonus pts: 44 trophies: 2 Champions League only: Barca- won:82 lost:34 bonus pts:34 trophies:1 Benfica- won:74 lost:44 bonus pts:33 trophies:2 Cup Winners' Cup only Barca- won:50 lost:17 bonus pts:21 trophies:4 Benfica- won:21 lost:9 bonus pts:7 trophies:0 So Barcelona has had the better history in Europe...[8)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manuel Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 So I guess Barca has the better history. But at least, for now, I can say Benfica has won more Champions Leagues than Barca. You say Barca have 10 trophies. 1 in Champions League, and 4 in Cup winner Cup. Have they one the Uefa Cup 5 times? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
River City Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Manuel I'm a Benfica fan, Nooooooo........[8D] Thanks for the support over the years. As much as we can despise each others teams domestically, it's nice to know most level-headed people will cheer for their 'rivals' in European competition. Too bad about the drubbing we got in the UEFA cup.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manuel Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 I just did some checking, and here is how Barca has won their 10 trophies: Uefa cup 3 times, Cup winners Cup 4 times, Champions Cup 1 time, and the European Super Cup 2 times. Benfica's 2 Champions Cup can't compete with that. Well, I hope Benfica win, so I can at least have some bragging rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Manuel I just did some checking, and here is how Barca has won their 10 trophies: Uefa cup 3 times, Cup winners Cup 4 times, Champions Cup 1 time, and the European Super Cup 2 times. Benfica's 2 Champions Cup can't compete with that. Well, I hope Benfica win, so I can at least have some bragging rights. I don't think we won the UEFA Cup ever, perhaps it refers to a Fair's Cup, or some other trophy. I would count 7 if you are to include the Super Cups. We lost three finals, to Benfica, to Steaua in Seville with Venables back when Schuster played for us early 80s, and that terrible final in Athens in 94 vs. Milan where Weah destroyed us, we had won the league on the last day the previous Sunday and never came down to concentrate on a final played three days later. I never ever again have stepped foot in the bar I saw that match in, I'd burn the whole building down if I could. Get this: I saw our only European Cup in Toronto, in the middle of an Italian neighbourhood swarming with Samp shirts, in the only Portuguese bar I could find, May 20, 1992. Thank the lord for Telelatino. Now being a Benfica fan maybe you'll let me count roller hockey European Cups? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roots Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 I guess its too bad because 2 are already qualified and 3 might be on the way. how many english teams qualified??? oh ya one wih no englishmen even on the team. quote:Originally posted by canso Three Eye-talian teams in the quarters is three too many. I'll be cheering mightily for Ajax to knock out Inter on Tuesday. Is the draw this week or next? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 I am always cautious about predicting, but the draw favours Barça to at least make the final. Though we may let down our guard after being so hyped for Chelsea. The key will be everyone being on form, which is not now the case. I think the final will be vs. Juve, a team that means for a very tactical game for a last match. So no prediction there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canso Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 "Athens in 94 vs. Milan where Weah destroyed us." It was actually "Il Geno" Dejan Savicevic who pulled Barca apart that night. Weah joined Milan in 96 I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amacpher Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 If Inter had drawn anybody other than Ajax, they'd probably have lost. Nothing impressive about Inter. They will be gone next round. [^] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 quote:Originally posted by canso "Athens in 94 vs. Milan where Weah destroyed us." It was actually "Il Geno" Dejan Savicevic who pulled Barca apart that night. Weah joined Milan in 96 I believe. You're right. Funny, was got mixed up with a later goal Weah scored on us. Or maybe the Desailly goal. In any case, it was a nightmare, we never were in that match, and we could not play Laudrup having four foreigners at the time. We will make up for that this year I hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canso Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 I still prefer the mid 90's vintage Barca with Koeman and Hristo "Mad Dog" Stoichkov, Romario, Nadal, Bakero, but this could be the best Barca team ever, non? Here's hoping they meet the Gooners in the final! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roots Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 here's hoping canso gets cancer of the prick!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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