Fantastic Stadium article on tsn.ca

[Gian-Luca]

Its actually a few days old but someone just posted this on bigsoccer. Never heard of the author before, but he's one to keep an eye on for the future. Great article, even (without naming names) rips apart Bob McCown.

Keep Ups: Stadium of dreams and nightmares

Gareth Wheeler

11/1/2005

Well, it's official. The proposed Toronto soccer stadium is set to become a reality, with Toronto City Council's 25-13 approval for the Exhibition Stadium site, finally giving the Canadian Soccer Association a stadium to call home. A new 20,000 seat facility in prime real estate with the potential for expansion … boy don't the Argos wish they were on board for this one!

It has been a long road for the CSA. Years of negotiation, partnerships, messy break-ups, and disappointment, the CSA should be commended for persevering and getting what they set out for. The process was sped up over the last couple weeks with Maple Leafs Sports & Entertainment jumping on board. Its desire to bring an MLS team to the city of Toronto for 2007, combined with an October 31st deadline set by the MLS on whether or not Toronto would build a stadium, made the decision process a bit rushed. The stadium proposal was thrown in front of Toronto Council, where Mayor David Miller steadfastly supported the initiative and was able to obtain the desired votes to go forward with the project. An easy process, it was not.

Many tax-payers groups, councilors, and one out-spoken sports radio host vehemently opposed the use of tax dollars to fund the stadium, citing the monies should be used to support other more important expenditures. True, Toronto's roadways are, well, let's just say, have seen better days, and Toronto's police force could really use some more scratch to fund their ever more difficult fight against crime. But in the end, the offer on the table was just too good to ignore. For a measly $10 million of city monies, Toronto gets a stadium. In business terms, $10 million cannot even pay for half of Alex Rodriguez annual salary! For this $10 million, Toronto doesn't have to worry about A-Rod's lack of production in the post-season, but rather gets a product we will be able to see results from, not just in the city of Toronto, but nation wide.

After all the votes were cast and the project had the green-light to go-ahead, this one radio personality showed no restraint in voicing his complete displeasure of the stadium. Long opposed to public money being used to fund various other athletic endeavours, this stadium initiative was as easy of a target as any for criticism. It is not hard for critics to argue about where out tax dollars should go, but the argument becomes just that much easier when soccer is the culprit. Despite having the highest participation rate across Canada, despite our country's ethnic diversity and undying support for the game at all levels across the world, and despite the game's universal appeal, our media makes a point of pushing soccer to the periphery. Perhaps the lack of soccer coverage is not systematic, but instead may just be more convenient to ignore, or slander, a game many do not understand. Thus, the week-long of slandering by this individual, though not wholly inaccurate, goes a long way in highlighting the sheer ignorance of certain sectors of the sports media in their coverage of the game.

To be fair, he is not entirely off in his commentary. There are concerns about MLSE's role in the project, only contributing $8 million towards the $62.8 million project, but still receiving stadium revenues. The city will run the stadium but MLSE profits? This concern is well taken as the last thing the community wants to see is the stadium changed from a public initiative into one for private gain. Undoubtedly, MLSE got a ripe deal, putting minimal investment into the stadium they will profit from, if successful. However, it should not be overlooked that MLSE has a huge stake in the business of not only bringing a MLS franchise to Toronto, but making it a successful and profitable one. This means investment into the quality of the team, marketing of the product, and reaching out to the community. If done the right way, yes, they can rake in a nice little profit. But at the same time, this will benefit sports and particularly soccer fans across the country. The fact is MLSE, or another private investor, was entirely necessary to get this product off the ground. There was no way the CSA and public funding alone would be enough to get the stadium deal done. So the re-direction of profits to MLSE will have other tangible benefits, most importantly being the development of soccer in this nation.

First and foremost, there is a huge soccer following in this country, and more directly to the issue, in Toronto. It is a true urban sport that can be not only played, but enjoyed for an affordable price in North America. The problem with soccer development in this country has not been the numbers or interest, but rather the ceiling placed on our kids because of the lack of soccer infrastructure in place. At the heart of the matter has been no centre-piece, no one facility that the CSA can build around. Not only no centre-piece for our national program, but no top-level professional teams to boost general interest in major Canadian cities. Does this mean a professional soccer team cannot survive in such a market? At this point, the number of soccer-crazed fans and those active in and around the game seem to suggest that a MLS franchise can be a hit in a market like Toronto.

The mere presense of a national stadium speaks volumes to the commitment we are making to our soccer program. As the old saying goes, excellence breeds excellence. At the same time, mediocrity breeds mediocrity. When we start providing the facilities and financial commitment our players deserve, we will see benefits through their on-field performance. It is easy to say that our men's national side sits 88th in the FIFA rankings, and that hardly merits the finances to build a national soccer stadium. I would take an alternative approach, saying 88th in the world with no stadium and lack of public monies is quite remarkable. That being said, our women's program has done a fantastic job developing young players. Their collective success directly correlates with the lack of financial commitment other nations make to their women's national sides. Canada has gone above and beyond to provide the best they can to our young ladies, but up until this time, we have still fallen short, unable to beat the Germany's and USA's when it matters most. With young players like Lang and Sinclair, and now a re-affirmed commitment to soccer in this country, a bright future surely lies ahead. It is no coincidence the rise of the American national soccer program is connected with the rise in participation rates among youth, and the implementation of a successful domestic league. The MLS has done a fantastic job marketing their product, with the league featuring many members of the US National team. They have turned these players into stars, and the league and the national program have benefited accordingly. The same can be done in this country as well. We may not have quite the financial fire-power to pay for success, but we can at least put our players in a position to succeed. There are an abundance of up and coming star Canadian soccer players, just needing a platform to let their talent shine through.

A top-level professional team in Toronto will give our homebred players a chance to become household names in our sporting landscape. There is no reason every Canadian soccer fan shouldn't be familiar with Dwayne de Rosario. We should all have all heard about young Canadian Julien de Guzman's scoring against soccer powerhouse Real Madrid last week. But instead of hearing about de Rosario being short listed as MLS player of the year or de Guzman's success at Deportivo, we get to hear about a 4th line winger on some obscure NHL team south of the border sustaining a lower body injury Fair, not really, but that's the reality of the sports coverage in this country. The pending arrival of MLS in this country may go a long way to re-shaping the way we look at soccer from a domestic standpoint. Montreal has done a fantastic job promoting the Impact in the 'A' league. The same can be said of the Whitecaps in Vancouver. But a team in soccer's biggest league in North America in Canada's largest media market has the potential to turn a lot more heads.

More media coverage will also come via the FIFA World Youth Championship. How would it have seemed if Canada's largest sporting event, Olympics aside, did not include its largest city? Not only will it provide a bigger showcase for the game of soccer to our national audience, but will also give our young players an opportunity to make names for themselves. These are the very players who will benefit from having a MLS team, a national stadium, and the new national commitment to soccer. It is easy to lose sight of all the possible benefits of $10 million when you are solely looking at things from an economic perspective. You cannot put a price tag on everything in life, as intrinsic and generational benefits must be considered. That being said, the commentary by one radio personality speaks volumes about the short-sightedness used to view our soccer program. The stadium signals more than just an MLS franchise in Canada or a home for our national team. It signals a changing of the culture, the way the Canadian public sees the game of soccer.

CORNER KICKS

- MUTV did not allow Roy Keane's blunt assessment of United's performance on the weekend to go to air. Quite a pity, as we all know Keane had the gall to say what was on everyone else's mind. Apparently Keane's criticism towards some of the United players was a little too harsh. Well, it has never stopped him before and I am sure they will hear from Keano one way or another!

- Rio Ferdinand's poor form may have opened the door for Ledley King with the national side. The young Hotspur has been sheer class this campaign, and looks to force himself into the starting XI by Germany.

- Looks like Michael Owen is returning to form. Two textbook goals Monday showed flashes of the Owen of old.

- Staying in England, is their any team more of a surprise than Wigan Athletic? 2nd in the table with an unbelievable 7 wins from 10 games. It really goes to show that when a team actually plays to win, they get pick up the full 3 points.

- More surprises, how about Osasuna leading La Liga, 2 points clear of Barcelona?!?

- Our Canadian Youth team just wrapped up a tour of England with a 1-0 victory over Everton FC's U-18 side, with Gavin McCallum scoring the lone marker. Dale Mitchell should be very happy with the 3-1 record compiled on the tour, with Canada's only loss coming to Manchester United's Youth side.

- More Canadian news, British Columbian midfielder Keegan Ayre has started a two-week trial with Hibernian. The 17-year-old Canada youth international is also wanted by Sheffield Wednesday, Ipswich Town, Dundee and West Ham United.

Happy November,

Gareth Wheeler, TSN.ca

[RealGooner]

It is a good article. Gareth Wheeler has written about soccer before for TSN, and to see something like that on a nationalsports website is definately a srep in the right direction.

[john tv]

Ok guys I win! Great article and some well documented points.Maybe I will get some believers on my side.Thanks G.L you made my afternoon already,perfect timing as well and did anyone read the article in the Globe yesterday by Peter Mallett,same old same old crap.I told you so.

[Franky]

nice piece

[Kelly]

quote:Originally posted by RealGooner

It is a good article. Gareth Wheeler has written about soccer before for TSN, and to see something like that on a nationalsports website is definately a srep in the right direction.

it's nice seeing such a postive spin on corporate welfare.

I'm thinking of building a building for my small bussiness. I'll get various levels of government to pay for 70 percent of it and then have them cover any loses that I may incure on said property and I'll get to them "own" it but I'll get to use it full time and have them not send a property tax bill or a water bill..

another take...

This stadium is what city living is to housing. But it's funny how MSLE isn't ashamed- like most people who live in welfare housing are. I wonder if they make a profit and prosper they'll be force to move to a private stadium and this welfare stadium could be used for a pro rugby team or something...

missing in story:

250 Million in loses.

The fact that Fieldturf™ will be the carpet of choice,limiting FIFA games and the possiblity of bringing in such teams as England, Holland, Brazil for exibitions games.

NOW that has to stand as the stupid thing in all of this. No GRASS. We spend all that public coin and in reality- our National team won't be able to play there.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by Kelly

it's nice seeing such a postive spin on corporate welfare.

I'm thinking of building a building for my small bussiness. I'll get various levels of government to pay for 70 percent of it and then have them cover any loses that I may incure on said property and I'll get to them "own" it but I'll get to use it full time and have them not send a property tax bill or a water bill..

Does your small business entail hosting Canadian national soccer team matches and the U20 FIFA World Cup? If so, let us know how we can invest in it!

[Guest Jeffery S.]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

Does your small business entail hosting Canadian national soccer team matches and the U20 FIFA World Cup? If so, let us know how we can invest in it!

Ask him what the economic spillover effect of his small business is when foreigners fly in to buy there and spend nights in a hotel, along with Metro TO residents coming in to watch games and eat in restaurants.

Ask what the advertising value is that his business will give to Canada and specifically to certain cities through international television and press coverage for 3 weeks. Nevermind the ongoing presense of N American press in TO for MLS matches.

Ask too, just why he doesn't want to set up the kind of business that does receive government benefits in Canada, in function of incentives on local taxes or land acquisition in industrial parks, start-up incentives, tax breaks on early losses, support for going to international trade fairs depending on the sector, chamber of commerce and other trade association support, also backed by public money.

The real problem is that people do not know how government works, do not look at public budgets, have no idea what the relative spending on such "peripheral" projects in sport or culture is in relation to the total.

Meanwhile, those that are always into the extreme reductionism of "social priorities" would essentially have us living in an radically philistine society that would be humanly unbearable. But it is not a question of one or the other, thankfully. Those countries that are handling social or educational services better than Canada, lo and behold, are also able to have a much better structure of football stadiums at the same time. In Spain, for example, where educational quality is not at Canadian level, we do have universal daycare from age 3 on, plus superior social housing programs, and the medical system is getting better, though is probably below the Canadian in terms of care (not so much technology any more). Fair enough, but how is a country like that able to have a curling league, a small hockey league, ice rinks in most cities, never mind at least 8 stadiums of the level of Edmonton. Now how is that possible?

[john tv]

Hey Jeffrey how many food banks are there in your town?

[G-Man]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

Does your small business entail hosting Canadian national soccer team matches and the U20 FIFA World Cup? If so, let us know how we can invest in it!

Here's a reality check. Opening up a Sears on the same spot in TO would generate triple the economic impact for that area than building of the stadium or hosting the U-20 world Cup. I remember Chicago doing a study when the White Sox were trying to suck the state into building them a 360 Million dollar plaything. It basically said that if the White Sox left, besides the sense of emotional lose, it would have less economic impact than downtown Chicago losing a big retailer.

And I can easily say that small businesses do more for the provice and city per buck earned than a corporation that just been given close to 50 million to help a 10 million (MLS fee) work. If you gave that same ratio 5-1 for investing in small businesses in Toronto, the city would be flush with work. While a stadium will produce at best 20 front office jobs, 200 part time event day staff and get this "1.5" million in salary for the players.

G-L say it as is, it's great day to be a soccer fan in Toronto. Don't start saying that it's a great day for the city economically. Cause hosting 5-6 WC games isn't going to off set the 8 million taken from the city budget. Let alone the provical and federal grants. This isn't the World Cup. I doubt that people will be flying into Toronto considering the attendance in Holland- which is within a 6 hour drive from the heartlands of soccer with close to 300 million born and bred fans. If this was such a huge event in terms of attendance- they'd have put in a 50000 seater. OH! back to the Skydone.

MLS Toronto is good for local soccer fans- but does nothing for the economy and I hate to say this, we don't have a decent college system like the do in the States to start with. They also have 12 MLS teams. So I doubt this one single MLS team will do anything for our MNT.

We do well with development until 18. Then we fail them. We need at least 200-300 decent U-18 players to get 30 decent u-23 players. We simply don't have that system in place.

ANd if you've read Brunt before, he's a big soccer fan. Covered a few world cups for the globe, but he's also against tax breaks for the NHL and other pro sports. What the article was saying was that after giving out billions to other mainstream pro sports, 60 million is a drop in the bucket. That's not a blessing, but more a "oh well"

Rod Bryden was a snake. Don't be one as well.

[Guest Jeffery S.]

quote:Originally posted by john tv

Hey Jeffrey how many food banks are there in your town?

Are you kidding John? There are many. There are also families that do not abandon their elderly with the frequency we see in Canada, I know lots of families living with grandparents, way more than in Canada as well.

There are far less homeless in Spain than in Canada, and right below my studio, in a underclass area of old BCN, there is an organization helping homeless get off the street and live in apartments, do their cooking, live sometimes in groups, sometimes alone. Amazing work, with governmental support of course.

Get real. In Spain at least the social welfare structure is growing since democracy was installed, it is not in reversion, not yet. Sure, the Canadian threshhold was higher, but not that much higher any more, and in Canada everyone knows that we are going backwards in this regard, with a few areas of exception.

The point is this: in every other member nation of the OECD (let's not even talk G7 or 8 or whatever, let's talk 24 nations) they actually have social programs, their economies work better or worse but more or less work, and they have football stadiums galore. We are the ones who are the freaks, the odd ones out, the weirdos. We can't figure out how to have a soccer structure along with a social structure, while most else can. Get that.

[TOareaFan]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

Does your small business entail hosting Canadian national soccer team matches and the U20 FIFA World Cup? If so, let us know how we can invest in it!

Well that response would work if those teams did not have to pay rent to the stadium owners (City of Toronto) and Managers (MLSE) everytime they used the building. The tax dollars have been spent to build a stadium that has the ability to host those teams, yes, but not for free.

No matter what your opinion is on government funding for this sort of thing, do not pretend that this becomes a long term, owned, asset for the national soccer program. It is, simply, just another stadium for them to pay rent in.

[G-Man]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

Are you kidding John? There are many. There are also families that do not abandon their elderly with the frequency we see in Canada, I know lots of families living with grandparents, way more than in Canada as well.

There are far less homeless in Spain than in Canada, and right below my studio, in a underclass area of old BCN, there is an organization helping homeless get off the street and live in apartments, do their cooking, live sometimes in groups, sometimes alone. Amazing work, with governmental support of course.

Get real. In Spain at least the social welfare structure is growing since democracy was installed, it is not in reversion, not yet. Sure, the Canadian threshhold was higher, but not that much higher any more, and in Canada everyone knows that we are going backwards in this regard, with a few areas of exception.

The point is this: in every other member nation of the OECD (let's not even talk G7 or 8 or whatever, let's talk 24 nations) they actually have social programs, their economies work better or worse but more or less work, and they have football stadiums galore. We are the ones who are the freaks, the odd ones out, the weirdos. We can't figure out how to have a soccer structure along with a social structure, while most else can. Get that.

How many hockey rinks they have out there? Talk about weidos! And all those soccer stadiums still haven't won them a world cup has it? Idiots compared to the Germans or the Brazilians. Even the English have managed one!

Government should run social programs. It shouldn't run facilities for rich corporations and their tax write-offs. This isn't a step backwards, but progress.

You want to make money- then go to it, but not at the cost of social programs. Meaning why should anyone fund someone's pastime or someone's profit? over Hospitals or schools?

It's funny how private industry wants less government except when they want money?

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by TOareaFan

Well that response would work if those teams did not have to pay rent to the stadium owners (City of Toronto) and Managers (MLSE) everytime they used the building. The tax dollars have been spent to build a stadium that has the ability to host those teams, yes, but not for free.

That's totally irrelevant to my response. The point is, the stadium is being used and built in part for that purpose. It wouldn't be happening without it. And I doubt the CSA is complaining about the stadium getting built & used in this fashion.

If the MLSE had announced an intention to bring an MLS team to Toronto and sought out the government and the CSA to make it happen, encouraging the CSA to bid for the hosting of the U20 WYC when it otherwise wouldn't be bothered to do so otherwise, I might be more sympathatic to this viewpoint that taxpayers are getting screwed by corporate Canada. We know that isn't the case.

[G-Man]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

That's totally irrelevant to my response. The point is, the stadium is being used and built in part for that purpose. It wouldn't be happening without it. And I doubt the CSA is complaining about the stadium getting built & used in this fashion.

If the MLSE had announced an intention to bring an MLS team to Toronto and sought out the government and the CSA to make it happen, encouraging the CSA to bid for the hosting of the U20 WYC when it otherwise wouldn't be bothered to do so otherwise, I might be more sympathatic to this viewpoint that taxpayers are getting screwed by corporate Canada. We know that isn't the case.

When MLSE insists on field turf so they can put a bubble on site and hence rule out any men's national team games and G-L has to travel to Kingston to see WCQ's we'll see how much his corporate boosterism/whore act looks then....

[john tv]

Can you please tell me how many food banks you have I mean in total please.This is extremely important to me.

[Gian-Luca]

Actually G-Man you are reminding quite a bit of the bubble boy with your nonsensical posts. Oh no, I'm afraid its Moops!

[G-Man]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

Actually G-Man you are reminding quite a bit of the bubble boy with your nonsensical posts. Oh no, I'm afraid its Moops!

right. the stadium will have feilfturf right? so how many full MNT games will be played on it?

ANSWER the question for a change.

[MLSFAN]

quote:Originally posted by G-Man

When MLSE insists on field turf so they can put a bubble on site and hence rule out any men's national team games and G-L has to travel to Kingston to see WCQ's we'll see how much his corporate boosterism/whore act looks then....

Dumb man its the City Of Toronto that wants the Field turf. They want use of the Stadium during the winter. Considering they are putting up 10 Million for it, getting as many nights use out of it makes sense.

One more thing our NT will play on Fild turf. Its approved by FIFA.

[MLSFAN]

quote:Originally posted by G-Man

right. the stadium will have feilfturf right? so how many full MNT games will be played on it?

ANSWER the question for a change.

6 a year

[Gian-Luca]

G-Man, nobody knows "THE ANSWER" to the question of how many full men's national team games will played in Toronto per year. We know that a minimum 6 Canadian national team games, potentially covering all age groups & genders (yes, there is another outside of the male gender, in case you didn't know). Its unlikely that none of these over the next 20 years will be for the full men's national team. And while the stadium is starting with grass, I still don't know what "feilturf" is.

What other answers would you like to demand be answered? How many goals Iain Hume will score in 2009? How many red cards will Adrian Serioux receive in 2008? Let me know and I'll see if I can find that crystal ball that you are so desperately searching for.

[Gian-Luca]

G-Man, nobody knows "THE ANSWER" to the question of how many full men's national team games will played in Toronto per year. We know that a minimum 6 Canadian national team games, potentially covering all age groups & genders (yes, there is another outside of the male gender, in case you didn't know). Its unlikely that none of these over the next 20 years will be for the full men's national team. And while the stadium is starting with grass, I still don't know what "feilturf" is.

What other answers would you like to demand be answered? How many goals Iain Hume will score in 2009? How many red cards will Adrian Serioux receive in 2008? Let me know and I'll see if I can find that crystal ball that you are so desperately searching for.

[G-Man]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

G-Man, nobody knows "THE ANSWER" to the question of how many full men's national team games will played in Toronto per year. We know that a minimum 6 Canadian national team games, potentially covering all age groups & genders (yes, there is another outside of the male gender, in case you didn't know). Its unlikely that none of these over the next 20 years will be for the full men's national team. And while the stadium is starting with grass, I still don't know what "feilturf" is.

What other answers would you like to demand be answered? How many goals Iain Hume will score in 2009? How many red cards will Adrian Serioux receive in 2008? Let me know and I'll see if I can find that crystal ball that you are so desperately searching for.

ummm.

Mcgill: 20000 seats and no MNT games- just the ladies. Frank Clair: 35000 seats and NO MNT games, just a bunch of ladies games. I wonder whats the common theme with those two great places is...oh plastic grass.

Umm the MLS stadium, will have Fieldturf™ after 2007, as per the needs of the facility owner to actually make some profit and pay for the place.

Umm I betting that MLS Toronto will get games for the MNT as long as it has grass. But with plastic, it'll get a bunch of lady games and U-17 games.

Such FUN! A National team stadium with NO MNT games. As they say Edmonton Rocks!

Doubt England or Holland will come to play on plastic anytime soon, even for a nice friendly. I doubt the US would agree to a WCQ on the stuff as well.

Maybe British Virgin Islands will play on it.

[Gian-Luca]

Gee I wasn't aware that McGill & Frank Clair were built for the purpose of hosting national team games like Toronto's. I guess all three have that in common.

Anyway, you keep dreaming about the lack of games at the Toronto stadium all you want if it makes you happy. God knows that something must make you happy.

[G-Man]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

Gee I wasn't aware that McGill & Frank Clair were built for the purpose of hosting national team games like Toronto's. I guess all three have that in common.

Anyway, you keep dreaming about the lack of games at the Toronto stadium all you want if it makes you happy. God knows that something must make you happy.

it's a reality. how many MNT games have been played on fieldturf in Canada considering that we a bunch of suitable CFL fieldturf venues?

umm none. why would that change?

[MLSFAN]

quote:Originally posted by G-Man

it's a reality. how many MNT games have been played on fieldturf in Canada considering that we a bunch of suitable CFL fieldturf venues?

umm none. why would that change?

ASSHAT book your tickets to Toronto thats where NT games will be played. Get used to it.