Caps Insider

[Winnipeg Fury]

Caps Insider

July 5, 2004

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This week, I thought I’d take you through a two minute finishing drill, where I’ll fire off as many shots as possible, hopefully hitting the target each time.

It was a doubly gloomy Sunday for several members of the Whitecaps. Coach Tony Fonseca, his assistant Tony Francisco, Defender Nico Craveiro, and Goalkeeper Alex Marques were all rather quiet in the bowels of Swangard Stadium prior to the match with Edmonton. The four Portuguese descendants were as stunned as the rest of the soccer world, when Greece upset the hosts in Lisbon. That preceded their own shocker, the 3-2 loss to Edmonton, which saw the Whitecaps surrender a 2-0 lead.

Good news for Jeremy Piette, the rugged defender from Texas, who has been sidelined with knee cartilage issues throughout the season. The 23 year old says his surgery was successful, he’s pain free, and expects to start training within weeks. It’s welcome news to the squad, which at times has looked unsettled at the back.

Reflecting on the huge 2-0 win in Portland on Friday night, I found it interesting that since Andrew Gregor (a Whitecap for one game) joined the Timbers, the club has 2 wins and 4 losses. He was subbed on in a 6-0 win over Edmonton, and also contributed to a 1-0 win in Minnesota. Gregor, who was Davide Xausa’s roommate at the University of Portland, has had trouble finding a coach he respected as much as the late Clive Charles, who headed up the University’s highly regarded soccer program. Charles died of Cancer last August. Xausa meanwhile, will be heading back to Portland next January, to continue his studies prior to the 2005 A-League season.

Perhaps it’s a good omen that the Whitecap Women under Chris Bennett are having a tougher time finishing teams off the way Dave Dew’s teams did during their regular seasons. In the past, scorelines seemed embarrassing at times, but when it came to the playoffs, Vancouver’s W-League team couldn’t find the goals to ever win a championship. Maybe this year, with stronger opponents and closer games, the Whitecap women will be a little sharper heading into the post season.

With this being the Silver anniversary of the Whitecaps ‘79 Soccer Bowl triumph, the club will be asking its supporters to vote for their all time players. What will make it that much more difficult, is the inclusion of 86er players, who dominated the Canadian Soccer League in the late 80’s. Imagine having to choose between frontrunners Peter Beardsley, Domenic Mobilio, John Catliff, and Trevor Whymark. While Beardsley was easily at the top of his class, you can’t deny the incredible understanding between Catliff and Mobilio that produced so many great goals at Swangard. Toss names like Dale Mitchell, David Cross and current Strikers Carlo Corazzin and Jason Jordan, and you’ll have some serious coaching decisions to make!

And I’m a little surprised that Seattle continues to be a leading candidate for expansion to the MLS. Not because of the market, its soccer history, and the world class facility, but because of Seattle’s A-League track record. The Sounders have not been setting the house on fire with attendance at Qwest Field (formerly Seahawk Stadium), despite being competitive year after year, and having such great rivals as Vancouver and Portland nearby. Sounders GM Adrian Hanauer keeps talking about his MLS dream, but what makes him think that jumping leagues and rebranding the team will guarantee sudden success at the box office? This is a critical decision for Major League Soccer, which had to contract its Florida properties 2 years ago, and is already making a risky move by adding a Mexican based team called Chivas, to play out of LA, which already has a team! (the Galaxy) If I were Don Garber, a city’s support of A-League soccer should be a primary consideration, and if it were, why not look to Rochester as a market that already has MLS attendance numbers, while also having consistent on-field success. The decision could come soon, with Salt Lake City pegged as Seattle’s chief rival for a franchise. If the Emerald City is chosen for next season or 2006, the A-League will have a big hole to fill in the west, something I’ll touch on next week.

Peter Schaad provides colour commentary for the Whitecaps this Week.

Join Hosts Craig MacEwen, Bob Lenarduzzi and Peter Schaad as they take a look inside Vancouver Whitecaps A- League Soccer Team, through Features,Highlights and Game Previews on Whitecaps this Week.

[DarnCherry]

Peter Schaad is one big jackass of a propoganda mill. How much do the Whitecaps pay him to get in jabs at ex-players? He did it the very first Whitecaps this week right after Gregor was released claiming that Gregor had not had a very good game in the season opener, and had no right to question why he was taken out of the game, nevermind that most fans at the match did not see it the same way. Now he's trying to insinuate that Gregor is the reason that Portland is 2-4 in the 6 games since he joined them. Of course it has nothing to do with the fact they had some big injuries, key players suspended etc.

Wonder how much money Lenarduzzi slips into his pocket after adding tidbits that Lenarduzzi has written for him.

[Footy]

I could never figure out Schaad's involement to the Caps? For him to spill out this kind of swill makes the Iraqi Information minister look like a TSN host. This stuff must be scripted out for him by the Caps and seeing that Seattle may leave next year could cause the Caps some major problems with the schedule both home and away and remove a team that has always been a easy team to market. So no surprise that this kind of negative propaganda against Hannauer is voiced by him for the Caps.

[DarnCherry]

Well it's obvious that Lenarduzzi has asked him to write something negative about Gregor. He's still feeling the heat for running a season ticket campaign around a guy who didn't even play a full 90 minutes for the team. Judging by recent events and how easily Lenarduzzi goes about wanting to cut players for the littlest offence (founded or unfounded) I guess he feels the need to deflect criticism.

[Allison A]

Here is Gregor's "record" since he joined the Timbers:

July

2nd (L): Played full 90 in 2-0 loss vs. Vancouver

June

30th (W): Subbed in late in 2-1 USOC win in Utah

23rd (L): Did not play in 2-1 loss at Milwaukee

22nd (W): Played full 90 in 1-0 win at Minnesota

17th (L): Did not play in 2-1 loss vs. Rochester

12th (L): Subbed in 60th minute in 1-0 loss vs. Vancouver

10th (W): Subbed in 67th minute in 6-0 win vs. Edmonton

So I guess instead of saying the Timbers were 2-4 since Gregor joined, he could have said they are 1-1 in games in which Gregor has played significant time.

But I guess that doesn't make it "newsworthy", now does it?

[DarnCherry]

My guess is that Schaad (following his script written by the Whitecaps organization) wants to put out there that he is creating bad chemistry within the Timbers. The kind of excuse the Whitecaps used when they got rid of him.

[AlanDouglas]

Krammerhead. Is it that you:

a) don't think team chemistry exists?

don't think team chemistry is important?

c) don't think team chemistry is the real issue here?

[DarnCherry]

The answer to that would be the obvious. The answer is C. How could the Whitecaps know what kind of chemistry the team had with Gregor in the lineup after 90 minutes of regulation play? Don't tell me they figured all that out in pre-season because the Whitecaps hardly played any class opponents (just one A-League team) and if they thought Gregor was bad they'd have cut him before opening night.

Fact is Schaad is badmouthing Gregor to make the Caps look good. Judt how does Schaad know that Gregor "has had trouble finding a coach he respected as much as the late Clive Charles, who headed up the University’s highly regarded soccer program" and so what if he's hasn't? Whats that supposed to mean, he hates all of the coaches he's played for since?

[snake]

i agree totally.peter schadd is the caps minister of

propaganda.it seems to be a marketing ploy to announce big off season signings just as season ticket campaigns get under way and than release the player at the start of the season.mario jorge,musa shannon,gebke,who will it be next year.smoke and mirrors is what peter schadd is all about.

[Allison A]

Gregor had a very impressive game last night for the Timbers. He seems to have returned to the form we had seen that made him All-League the past two years, and it was nice to see that talent on the field again.

On the second Timbers goal, he may or may not have deserved an assist as he may have just dummyed a pass from Sagare that Gordon then buried. But on the third Timbers goal, he weaved in and out past three Edmonton defenders before slotting a perfect pass to Gordon which the striker buried for his hat trick. It was a work of art as as a fellow Timbers fan said "an assist just doesn't do his play justice."

I should also add that the game was televised locally and Andrew was interviewed afterwards. He seemed pretty happy with his new team and excited to be here, and other than a few angry shouts at some of his teammates on the pitch, I've not seen or heard any indications of any personality clashes yet.

He also only has one yellow card so far this year.

I also must mention that after the game, the Timbers players sign autographs at a roped off area and then return their markers to a nearby staff member and head back to the locker room. Last night, near the locker room, Andrew saw about 15 or so girls from a youth team who had been looking for autographs but were on the pitch not in the autograph area. He could have just slipped past them into the locker room, as some other players did, but instead he RAN back over to get his marker and returned to spend another 10 minutes doing autographs.

Maybe my opinion was wrong about this guy, or maybe he's just happy to be in his hometown, but I'm amazed that a guy with his talent just fell into Portland's lap. If he keeps playing the way he did last night, it may be the move that puts the Timbers over the top this year.

I've actually started liking the guy, and if you all remember what I had said about him when he played for Seattle, that's a pretty profound statement.

[AlanDouglas]

Team chemistry and spirit is about the relationships, attitudes, and dynamics among the players, and with the coaches. Yes it shows up on the field, but it is most apparent on the training field, as well in the dressing room, on the team bus, at the airport, etc. If you wait to see how poor team chemistry is affecting play on the field, then you have waited too long.

As for player signing announcements, allow me to summarise...

If the team doesn't try to bring in new talent, the fans complain that the team isnt trying to improve.

If the team doesn't announce a lot of player signings early in preseason, the fans complain that they dont know who is going to be on the team, so why should they pay for season tickets.

If the team signs a new player, announces him, and it doesnt work out and they release him, fans complain that it was all just a marketing ploy.

And, if the team signs a player and doesnt announce him so they can see first whether it is going to work out, fans complain about the lack of information about the new player.

Seems like a catch-22 situation to me.

[AlanDouglas]

And just to be clear, Gregor is a very good player and a very nice guy. He's just the type of player that will have trouble fitting in with many organisations.

If there are problems in Portland, then the cracks aren't likly to be all that noticable to fans, unless you spend a lot of time at training.

[DarnCherry]

quote:f the team doesn't try to bring in new talent, the fans complain that the team isnt trying to improve.

Of course the fans are going to complain if the team doesn't bring in new talent, especially if that team has gone public saying they are going to make a run for the championship. However you can't expect the fans to stay happy when one of the biggest name players, one in which they built a season ticket campaign around, get released after playing less than one game. You can further expect the fans to be even angrier when it's happened the last couple of years-the players that the Whitecaps made the most fuss over signing during the off season being released after very little playing time.

quote:If the team doesn't announce a lot of player signings early in preseason, the fans complain that they dont know who is going to be on the team, so why should they pay for season tickets.

Fans have the right to complain when the season is only a week away and there isn't even 11 players signed. Imagine if teams in any other sport were a week away from the season opener without a full team signed. Besides, the unsigned crap is bogus. The Whitecaps sign a lot of their "regulars" plenty early enough, then stagger the announcements so the fans are under the impression that perhaps there will be some new blood in the lineup. I used to think they staggered them to get maximum press exposure but after they started announcing the new signings during the Canucks short run in the NHL playoffs (when it's hard to get any other sports coverage), I realized exposure was not on the Whitecaps mind. Players like Alex Marques were signed a full month before the Caps announced it. If the Whitecaps felt they needed to appease the fans by announcing players signings early why were the signings of players like Marques and other not announced until a month after they were signed?

quote:If the team signs a new player, announces him, and it doesnt work out and they release him, fans complain that it was all just a marketing ploy.

When it has happened the last few season where the top pre-season signing with all the hype has been released early, then fans will complain. Either the Whitecaps have really bad luck judging talent, which says a lot about the people in charge of such things, or itwas just a marketing ploy.

quote:And, if the team signs a player and doesnt announce him so they can see first whether it is going to work out, fans complain about the lack of information about the new player.

Ah yes, by people you mean me. You've been reading the southsiders board. Well yes, tell me any other team in the A-League or elsewhere that has a player come in for a tryout, doesn't make a mention of it in the press or their website and the first time the home fans know about it is when they hear him announced as coming into the game or read about it on the post game report on the team website (which by the way speaking of professionalism, if you read the goal summary listed in the Whitecaps match report Edmonton won the game 3-1, not 3-2).

Now if you or the club figure the fans will be equally upset over a player (Fuseini Dauda) being announced as having a 2 game trial midway through the season then being released would anger the fans as much as a player hyped as the guy who was going to help bring us the championship during the preseason being released after 1 game, then you really must take us fans for simpletons. Really I think fans can differentiate between the two situations. Nobody really cares if a player on a 2 game tryout gets released, but the team should let the fans know. I mean the Lynx issue a press release every time a player farts, the least the Whitecaps could do is let the fans know there is a new player in the lineup.

[AlanDouglas]

quote:Either the Whitecaps have really bad luck judging talent, which says a lot about the people in charge of such things, or it was just a marketing ploy.

Talent has nothing to do with it. In the five years I have been with the club, I can think of only one player who was ever signed and then released because he lacked talent. All the players at this level have enough talent to play in the A-League.

What sets players apart is fitness, conditioning, and the many mental aspects of the game. Those are the things that are hard to judge, until you actually bring a player in and work with them for a while.

I assure you that all these signings have been sincere attempts to improve the team. Sometimes they work out, sometimes they don't.

So if I get what you're saying, you would like to see the club announce new player signings, but downplay then so as not to raise fan expectations. Fair enough. But when I go back and read the Gregor signing announcement, it seems pretty matter-of-fact to me.

http://www.whitecapsfc.com/news/releases/feb/agrelease.htm

There's nothing about bringing Vancouver a championship. Gregor is described as a talented player who is expected to have a very positive impact on the field. It could probably have been toned down a tad, but you don't want to hedge too much, or you run the risk of insulting the player!

[Guest Jeffery S.]

For a team with 30 years history (and I was lucky enough to see it when it started) there are some pretty immature concepts about "team chemistry" still flying about. What are you running, a boarding school for delinquents, or a soccer team? Anyone knows that there are tons of successful teams with conflictive tensions off the field (and sometimes on, just look at Portugal's Figo-Deco rivalry) just as plenty of teams actually get that "chemistry" thing when they are winning and successful, a kind of momentum that makes everyone look like just super guys (as long as they are getting some minutes of course). Team chemistry is a bogus concept that management uses to hide their incapacity to run the club as a heterogeneous, complementary mix of adults with capacity to evolve and grow.

In any case it is a process, and the most important thing is what happens on the field. Part of ensuring that happens may be looking at player character types, but in the end judgment about that is totally subjective and, in the hands of a sports organization, is usually done in a neophyte way. Which sounds like the case here. You are not bloody psychologists, give us a break. So it is totally unfair and unprofessional to not give a player a chance to show off his talent and meaning for the team within a certain margin of time.

Perhaps what has to change is the Whitecaps approach to this, as loosing out on good players for extra-sport reasons is a black mark against the club, not a way of defending some awkwardly conceived image of its "integrity" (and let's not even get into what it would have meant for the great Caps NASL sides if some of our finest players had been dealt with using such cursory, amateur-ish criteria; everyone, fans especially, would really have lost out).

[DarnCherry]

Jeffrey, you are correct. The Whitecaps need to grow up.

[AlanDouglas]

There are conflictive tensions which can be tolerated, and then there are conflictive tensions that are simply too disruptive. If your GM is having to make a special trip to training more than a once a week to smooth over the crisis du jour surrounding a certain player, then that is not a healthy situation.

If the coach has made up his mind about a player, and the GM has made up his mind about a player, and quite possibly the player has made up his mind as well and wants to leave, then are you really suggesting that everyone should just tough it out for a few more weeks so that a few armchair coaches in the stands can have the time to make up their minds? I am sorry, but that is idiotic.

As for the Figo-Deco example, lets try to keep in mind that this is the A-League, not Serie A. This is not a league of 100% proven professionals. There are many players who are borderline, who may have the talent, but are a bit flaky or somehow lacking in other respects. The good ones generally stick with the teams they are with. Its the ones who move around, who become available for teams like the Whitecaps to sign at the start of the season, that can tend to be on the dodgy side.

Every case is different and judged on its own merits. Problem players are usually given a second chance -- sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes a player can burn through a second and a third chance in a very short time span, and then you have no choice but to release him. And if that upsets a few fans who can't bring themselves to trust the judgement of the coach and GM, then that's the cost of doing business.

[Gordon]

So Alan, are you contending that the Whitecaps didn't know Gregor was a plick and signed him unsuspectingly? Because the quick retreat on the player sure doesn't signal the Whitecaps were prepared. Didn't he get a longer term contract as well? Surely the Whitecaps had a inkling of what they were getting into and planned accordingly?

Frankly, while I think Jeffrey somewhat overstates the case, I agree with him generally. Unless Gregor was banging the wives of at least two teammates - and really, if it were only two, they'd have to be stars - and throttling the coach, I'd say the Whitecaps management is showing its amatuerism in not being able to deal with this. Christ, labour boards in Canada expect more of Mom and Pop shops with a handful of employees. He'd have to be a major cancer - and achieved that status in a matter of weeks - to warrant cutting one's losses with a player that talented.

Given the underachieving nature of the Whitecaps, perhaps they should have kept Gregor and let go of the sensitive types who couldn't work with him, asshole or not. Lord knows the rest of the Labour market in Canada has to find ways to deal with these types of situations. The guy is a proven A-League performer, not some squad player easily replaced and not worth the grief. That's my idiotic, armchair coach take on it anyway.

[Guest Jeffery S.]

quote:Originally posted by AlanDouglas

There are conflictive tensions which can be tolerated, and then there are conflictive tensions that are simply too disruptive. If your GM is having to make a special trip to training more than a once a week to smooth over the crisis du jour surrounding a certain player, then that is not a healthy situation.

If the coach has made up his mind about a player, and the GM has made up his mind about a player, and quite possibly the player has made up his mind as well and wants to leave, then are you really suggesting that everyone should just tough it out for a few more weeks so that a few armchair coaches in the stands can have the time to make up their minds? I am sorry, but that is idiotic.

I am sorry, it is not idiotic. It is what happens in every pro club of every pro league in the world where players sign binding contracts and clubs learn to live with who they have chosen since releasing them means severance money -sometimes the full quantity of the contract- they don't want to spend. So all pro clubs tough it out all the time, and because contractually they have to, surprise, surprise, things often work out. Because as I said it is a process. All you are doing is taking advantage of the legal hole with A-League contracts to get out of what any organization -club, enterprise, shop- is obliged to do, at least over a respectable trial period: learn to make it work.

What I don't like is that the Caps have a ton of players who are senior talents now in their pre-retirement phase, who obviously realize they won't ever go anywhere else, and then a lot of younger guys who don't necessarily seem to be ambitious about making a move upward. Even the Lynx, not as good on paper or results as the Caps, are transferring up more players to European contracts than the Caps. Could that be because we are opting for the docile, home-body types as it fits into the management philosophy better: we may be called whitecaps, but actually prefer smooth water over rough; don't rock the boat or you're out.

[DarnCherry]

quote:Originally posted by Gordon

o warrant cutting one's losses with a player that talented.

Given the underachieving nature of the Whitecaps, perhaps they should have kept Gregor and let go of the sensitive types who couldn't work with him, asshole or not.

It's my guess the only sensitive type who couldn't work with Gregor was the coach.

Speaking of silly thing the Caps do, Oliver Heald was removed as captain due to a run in with a obnoxious flight attendant, not because he wasn't doing his job as captain. Apparently the flight attendant swore at Heald and Nico Craveiro after one of them asked for a glass of orange juice. Of course they fired back with some cursing of their own. Another flight attendant came over to the players and apologized for the others behaviour. Yet the bitchy flight attendant complained to the Whitecaps, and Heald lost his captaincy, and Lenarduzzi was about to cut Craveiro from the team for this incident until it was pointed out to him that to be fair he'd have to cut Heald as well.

It must be fun to be a Whitecaps player knowing that if they stand up for each other that they could be cut from the team by a GM who wants to be a superhero in others eyes.

[AlanDouglas]

@Jeffrey

quote:players sign binding contracts and clubs learn to live with who they have chosen since releasing them means severance money

It sounds like you're saying teams keep problem players not because it's the best thing to do, but rather for financial and contractual reasons. I expect that's true, although I think you will find that these days teams are far more likely to turn around and loan a player who isn't working out. Happens all the time.

At the level the A-League operates at however, it makes more financial sense to release a player who isn't working out, rather than throw good money after bad. So it sounds like by your own argument, any team in that situation would do as the Whitecaps have done and release the player.

quote:What I don't like is that the Caps have a ton of players who are senior talents now in their pre-retirement phase, who obviously realize they won't ever go anywhere else, and then a lot of younger guys who don't necessarily seem to be ambitious about making a move upward. Even the Lynx, not as good on paper or results as the Caps, are transferring up more players to European contracts than the Caps. Could that be because we are opting for the docile, home-body types as it fits into the management philosophy better: we may be called whitecaps, but actually prefer smooth water over rough; don't rock the boat or you're out.

You raise some interesting points, and with some nice turns of phrase.

Different clubs have different styles and ambitions. Some clubs are happy to throw money at the team, bringing in all sorts of star players with clashing egos, and not really care too much about team spirit. These teams are often in a constant state of crisis management, and can be a less-than-pleasant place to play. Sometimes this formula works and they become powerhouses, and sometimes the ill feeling permeating the team takes over, and they fold like a house of cards (cough cough, Charleston Battery).

Some clubs focus on bringing in young players, keeping budgets low, and accepting that the more ambitious players will want to head off for greener pastures sooner rather than later. This is the model the Whitecaps used to follow (and of course fans complained about all the good young players who kept leaving).

These days the Whitecaps are more interested in stability, attracting good players, while taking advantage of the fact that the Canadian National Teams are now based in Vancouver. There is also a strong focus on building a good team spirit, and fostering a positive playing environment. That doesn't just help on the field, but is incredibly useful for player recruitment. Word of mouth spreads, and each year there are an increasing number of players who want to come to Vancouver because they know it is a good place to play. Ironically, Gregor was one of them.

@Gordon

I don't know where you work, but it sounds like it must be a loony bin. That kind of insanity may be okay for a Mom and Pop shop, if all anyone cares about is putting in their hours and getting their paycheck. But to build a committed, cohesive, positive, disciplined winning soccer team capable of fighting for a championship to its last breath (ie Greece), one needs to set standards a little higher.

@everyone

Jeffrey raised the Portuguese National Team as an example, so lets look at that. Portugal (albeit as hosts) turned in their best ever showing at the Euro despite some internal conflicts. How? Because they have a strong and decisive coach in Scolari who isn't afraid to take swift action. Jeffrey points to Deco and Figo, but what of Vitor Biai? Portugal's greatest ever goalkeeper was shut out by Scolari, expelled from the national team, not even used as a back-up, not even brought in just for his leadership or experience. Why? Because he doesn't have enough talent? Yeah, right.

And how much of a chance did Scolari give Biai to prove himself? Over how many games did he try to work things out? Zip. Zero. Nada.

This is one example. But it happens all the time. Players who don't fit in with a team, or clash with the coach once too often, are released, sold, loaned, or relegated to the reserves. Sometimes it is diguised better than others. But look close enough at any pro team, anywhere in the world, and you will see it.

[Guest Jeffery S.]

Okay, Alan, I can't really argue with your points in principle, I think you have every right to have a team philosophy and keep to it. And maybe you are right that given the legal set-up at A-League you are better to offload fast than sit on a player that is not happy, or that the club is not happy with. But I think this can lead to complacency on the field. I get the impression that considering the quality of some of our ex-nats (Clarke, Nash, Xausa, Corrazin, Nick) we are actually not getting the kind of performances out of them that we would if the club was more demanding of on the field performance and had some nervy types in there to push at them.

We are all looking for a good playoff run this year and hope we can beat the Impact in the A-League all Canadian final.

BTW, I don't think Battery is any more than a typical let-down after winning a championship. It is hard to stay on top. I think they'll likely have a good second half of the season. Especially now that Canada A-League reject and wrong-kind-of-player-for-the-Dominion Titus is back there. Just watch.

[AlanDouglas]

quote:I get the impression that considering the quality of some of our ex-nats (Clarke, Nash, Xausa, Corrazin, Nick) we are actually not getting the kind of performances out of them that we would if the club was more demanding of on the field performance and had some nervy types in there to push at them.

An interesting point. Sadly I'm pretty far removed from the team this year to much of a judgement, but I'll certainly bounce it off Bob.