A Question on Women's Soccer

[AvroArrow]

This thought has always crossed my mind, and I thought I'd throw it out there to people who know more about the women's game then I do. This thought began creeping in my head during the U-19 women's championship in Canada, when I heard that alot of footballing countries simply made their teams be going to local clubs and asking if they had any good young female players, because the national association really had no idea who they had (I believe Mexico did this).

Basically, my question is this: Is the success that the US and, to a certain extent, Canada achieve in the women's game going to fade over the next 10 years? It seems that when compared to other soccer countries, Canada and the US probably spend more money on the women's programs and thus have seen better results.

However, if the Brazil's, Argentina's, and other European countries begin to place as big an emphasis on the women's game, will North American countries soon be left behind? It would be tough for us to beat countries where soccer is life.

[CoachRich]

Outside of NA the women already have a huge advantage as they are playing in semi pro or pro leagues. When you look at Brazil you will see that about 1/2 of the team are playing in the Euro leagues. IMO this gives them a huge advantage over anything that NA female programs can offer.

Besides the CSA money issue for the WNT, the can't compete w/ the Euro countries that can basically jump on the bus or train to play an international friendly. Due to the scale of the geography their programs become cheaper due to the lower costs & the number of teams w/in such a small radius.

The NA Female has the same probelm as the Male in that unless there are decent pro leauges where they can make a living & play at a high level the development is limited.

[AvroArrow]

How would NA's college system compare to European semi pro women's leagues? The cream of the crop go to the best US universities, and then the cream of that crop go into the national programs.

I guess the occassional player could disappear in this system, but it is rather structured and can keep players playing quality soccer into their early 20's, giving national programs ample time to evaluate players.

[Guest Jeffery S.]

Sort of responding to both. I read on a women's football site that Vancouver Whitecaps were rated third best in the world amongst women's clubs. Think the top two were Frankfurt and Umea. Hard to know of course and this last year cannot be the basis of judgement with the national team depleting the squad, but you have to think that the competition in North America at the top level is as good as in Europe. At least I don't doubt it.

What is happening though is that more and more men's clubs are adding and supporting their women's team. It is going slowly, too much so IMO, but a good sign. In Spain Levante, Bilbao, Espanyol and Barça have teams, as does Rayo Vallecano, and I think At. Madrid has now promoted their women's side. But often the support is weak, even the money is stingy in some cases. In England clubs are getting into the act, and the press too, so they are perhaps the best example, and their football has risen as we've seen.

Not sure if Frankfurt is related to Eintracht, but here are the groups for the women's UEFA club cup 2nd stage, and I see Everton and Brondby there.

http://www.uefa.com/competitions/womencup/standings/index.html

The key for me is to make that shift from pure amateur to semi pro, to allow for a margin of professionalization, so that more and more women can do the sport fulltime.

[Chet]

I think one of the problems in North America is that we are too dependent on the NCAA. College players are limited to a four-year career, so it's great for girls in the 19-24 age group, but there is no place for them to go once they graduate. The W-League depends on NCAA players. Because the NCAA bans players from playing in professional leagues, that means the W-League can't pay ANY of its players. So even graduates like Christine Sinclair can't earn a decent wage.

The other problem with the NCAA is that there are too many teams. The talent pool is incredibly diluted. Most teams have one to three good players and the rest of the roster is filled out by players who will probably never play again once they graduate.

The new U.S. pro league, if it is successful, will be a big boost to the U.S. program, but it won't help Canada. If it's anything like WUSA, there will only be two or three spots on each team for foreign players and any Canadians who want to play there will have to compete with players from Europe, Brazil, China, etc. for those spots.

[Chet]

Jeffrey, is this the site you're referring to:

http://www.womensworldfootball.com/

Whitecaps have fallen off the radar, but Ottawa Fury are ranked 7th.

There are a lot of weird things about these rankings. For example, Birgit Prinz isn't listed among the 20 best players, although six of her German teammates are, including Steffi Jones, who has retired. Also, the long-defunct WUSA is still listed as the top league.

The most interesting thing on the page is the list of top money earners. I make more money than Marta does.

[Canuck Oranje]

With the success of the Brazilian team and the rapid changes taking place in Brazilian society, I also fully expect to see more clubs with a professional men's team put more emphasis on women's soccer. Especially those connected with strong and wealthier social/sports clubs like Sao Paulo FC, GR Barueri, and Pao de Acucar EC, in Sao Paulo. I don't know Rio de Janeiro but I know Vasco da Gama is involved in the women's game.

While I expect the increasing attention on women's soccer to come from the wealthier teams (in terms wealth and not necessarily revenue), the players themselves will likely be drawn from a broader economic cross section than in the past.

Pao de Acucar EC (in Sao Paulo) is a wealthy club that probably is best positioned to expand the participation in the sport by poorer women because of its linkages into poor neighbourhoods on the men's side and its association with the Pao de Acucar grocery chain (large employer of people in poorer neighbourhoods). Barueri also has a strong association with women's sports (currently hosting the training camp of the Brazilian national women's volleyball team).

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

What is happening though is that more and more men's clubs are adding and supporting their women's team. It is going slowly, too much so IMO, but a good sign. In Spain Levante, Bilbao, Espanyol and Barça have teams, as does Rayo Vallecano, and I think At. Madrid has now promoted their women's side. But often the support is weak, even the money is stingy in some cases. In England clubs are getting into the act, and the press too, so they are perhaps the best example, and their football has risen as we've seen.

Not sure if Frankfurt is related to Eintracht, but here are the groups for the women's UEFA club cup 2nd stage, and I see Everton and Brondby there.

http://www.uefa.com/competitions/womencup/standings/index.html

The key for me is to make that shift from pure amateur to semi pro, to allow for a margin of professionalization, so that more and more women can do the sport fulltime.