Canuck Oranje Posted June 28, 2003 Share Posted June 28, 2003 After having spent some time looking at Jahn Regensburg (Tam Nsaliwa thread in Canadian soccer section), the question rose in my mind about where the Bundesliga 2 league would rate in terms of quality. Some issues to consider first of all: - This is the second tier in Germany. Traditionally one of the strongest soccer playing nations in the World. Traditionally strong teams like FC Cologne, and Eintracht Frankfurt played in this league this year and have been promoted. St. Pauli who did spend some time in the Bundesliga 1 in the past was relegated from this league. - How would a second tier league in England and Germany compare to premier leagues in smaller countries like Belgium, Norway, Switzerland, Portugal, and Scotland (among others)? Recognize that club teams like Anderlecht, Benfica, Porto, Celtic, Rangers are more exceptions within these leagues rather than an indicator of the normal standard of play. My initial thoughts are that playing regularly in Bundesliga 2 should be at par (or close to it) with playing in the English 1st Division. If you exclude the 2 or 3 big clubs in the leagues of smaller countries, I would be inclined to say that Bundesliga 2 should compare to the Premier leagues of most smaller countries. The same probably should be said for Serie B in Italy, and the second tier in Spain. Of course, the big clubs in these smaller countries usually are a cut above their domestic leagues. Playing for those teams means that a player gets Champions league exposure and gets to play with higher quality players. Still financially, clubs like Ajax, Celtic, Anderlecht and Porto cannot compete for players with financial giants like Barca, Real Madrid, Manchester United, Arsenal, Bayern Munich, Borussia Dortmond, Juventus, etc. Still it is these questions about how leagues and teams compare that make European soccer so interesting. At the same time, it must lead to difficulty for players trying to decide whether they should sign long term contracts with a team, especially now when so many teams are teetering on the edge of bankruptcy. I am guessing that long term-contracts may have become a double edged sword. For the team, it means a long-term financial commitment. For the player (especially young ones), it means that you go down if a club goes down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettermirror Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 i'd say that your comparisons are accurate. as a tester, i put celtic and rangers into the premier league in total club manager 2003. both were relegated in the first year. rangers bounced right back up and began competing around the intertoto spots, and celtic came back a year after that, and were up around the 7th-10th spots. neither ever cracked a champions league spot in 6 seasons. neither won the f.a. or worthington (now - carling) cup. there ain't gonna be any middle any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Oranje Posted June 30, 2003 Author Share Posted June 30, 2003 Another interesting analysis is using the cumulative transfer market value numbers given on the German site www.transfermarkt.de While looking at the individual assessments given and the stated assumptions they use, I do recognize that some individual assessments may be dated. However, if you assume that errors in value cancel out when aggregated, the total aggregate transfer market value for each team should be a reasonable proxy for the relative size of the club. Since transfermarkt only values the English Premier, Dutch Premier, and Austrian league in addition to the three German leagues, those leagues can be compared. It should be noted however, that distortions exist with teams either relegated or promoted because of how valuations are done. A comparison of top teams in each of the four top leagues based on player transfer market value from the german site are as follows (in Euros): Manchester United 246,100,000 FC Arsenal 228,400,000 FC Liverpool 198,550,000 FC Bayern München 7 178,150,000 Newcastle United 169,800,000 Leeds United 156,100,000 Borussia Dortmund 152,200,000 FC Chelsea 119,900,000 Bayer 04 Leverkusen 109,275,000 Tottenham Hotspurs 105,150,000 FC Middlesbrough 98,950,000 Ajax Amsterdam 97,400,000 PSV Eindhoven 81,150,000 Feyenoord Rotterdam 50,300,000 Austria Wien 22,650,000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 I can speak about 2nd tier Spain. There are sides that as in other nations have 1st tier experience and tradition, big stadiums, perhaps even decent budgets. In Spain they get tv money as well, as does the third tier 2B as well. A big cup game vs. a 1st division team if the stadium is big enough can mean a huge budget boost. All to ensure they can keep signing decent internationals and even some fine national players. All 2nd tiers of Spain, Italy, Germany and England have very high quality players on powerful teams. There are always too some clubs that are really quite weak, that squeek into the 2nd tier on the basis of a good season and really will have problems staying up regularly. In Spain it is v. difficult to even make 2A as you can clean up in your 2B division and then go to a playoff where bad luck knocks you out of the running. This happened this year with Castellon, a side just down the road from Vilareal who were in 1st division here a decade ago. They had a great season this year, but just lost out promotion to a newly found side from Murcia called Ciudad de Murcia, the 2nd side from little Murcia (kinda like New Brunswick to give an idea). This latter side, owned by a former player agent with money, will have probs staying up while Castellon could even have made a run for top flight from the 2nd tier. Quirks of the system. One of the keys in Germany and England, I think Italy as well but not sure, is that below 2nd tier you can sign internationals. In Spain you cannot. So below 2nd tier it is really a lot of young sides and even poor professional clubs, all with 95% Spanish talent, the other 5% folks who have dual citizenship, Argentines for example leaving lower division Argie sides for Spain. I think that England has the best divisions below 2nd tier as they are national divisions, only 24 sides (Germany has two divisions, Spain 4, Italy also has multiple divisions to reduce travelling). Salaries from what I understand are best in England below 2nd tier (Div. 1). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Oranje Posted June 30, 2003 Author Share Posted June 30, 2003 However, with the financial turmoil that seems to plague professional soccer in Europe this summer, I suspect some changes in ranking are likely to occur. It is probably safe to say that the rich will continue to get richer. And the poor, poorer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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