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  1. Like
    BringBackTheBlizzard got a reaction from ironcub14 in Canadian Premier League   
    They clearly don't have the money to subsidize or bankroll a league, which is what makes their opinion on matters a lot less important than it would initially appear to be.
    If you are suggesting that raising people's expectations to an unrealistic and unacheivable level was one of the mistakes made in 2000 with CUSL, then I think that was clearly the case and can see why the argument can be made that history is repeating itself on that in the present day. The agenda has to be set first and foremost by the people that have been or are willing to invest a significant portion of their personal net worth in pro level soccer rather than having people that have no intention in investing dreaming up what they would love to see happen with other people's money.
  2. Like
    BringBackTheBlizzard reacted to TRM in Vote: CPL cities needed to succeed   
    Any list that does not have our 3 largest TV markets is not viable IMHO. So with that said here are the teams that just have to be there:
    Toronto (a second non-MLS may work there)
    Montreal (seriously doubt anyone could compete with the Impact)
    Vancouver (ditto for what was said about Montreal)
    Any 5 other cities as "filler". No disrespect intended to the other 5 but from a marketing "get real" type standpoint if it doesn't have the big 3 the rest won't matter much. Could they do it with 2/3rds? Possible but still loses a lot of credibility without a truly national footprint. A prairies plus Ontario league just won't cut it.
  3. Like
    BringBackTheBlizzard got a reaction from Pqhbv in Canadian Premier League   
    Would still love to see more details on this snippet from Steve Sandor:
    During this process, there were actually two league proposals floating across the desks of various investors. In fact, two rival league proposals. The second one wasn’t one to be taken very seriously, but the aggressive nature of the person/people behind it actually hurt the real CanPL start-up.
  4. Like
    BringBackTheBlizzard reacted to Futballer in Canadian Premier League   
    Let me give you some insight on the snippet from the sandman, he is correct on the fact that one project hurt the other, the Original Proposal from group 1 which was on the table before any one even thought of the idea, was off and on even prior to TFC getting the ok to MLS.
    The project was then Introduced to the Hamilton Group whom pondered on it for a while as Hamilton was set on a NASL Franchise. Hamilton then responded to Group 1, with a similar project and plan.
    This affected group 1 and it`s investors (2) from the UK (English 1st Division) whom was not impress with the Business actions of the Hamilton Group on a integrity level.
    It can be verified by the CSA which group had the original plan tabled. Both groups are still making progress, the Hamilton Group 2 has the support of our Governing Body and Group 1 had the backing of  Concacaf  and international investors, This was prior to the Change in Office at Concacaf.  
  5. Like
    BringBackTheBlizzard got a reaction from Gopherbashi in Canadian Premier League   
    Would still love to see more details on this snippet from Steve Sandor:
    During this process, there were actually two league proposals floating across the desks of various investors. In fact, two rival league proposals. The second one wasn’t one to be taken very seriously, but the aggressive nature of the person/people behind it actually hurt the real CanPL start-up.
  6. Like
    BringBackTheBlizzard reacted to ironcub14 in Canadian Premier League   
    Thanks for sharing the article, it's a well-written argument, and I don't know if he's repeated his arguments on other mediums before, but some of the article above definitely came out of the discussion we had yesterday on the FB group. I did reply to the points that he made on the FB group and repeated in the article, I'll just post a quick short version of it below. I totally understand that this is not a popular view whatsoever, and I'll drop it after today, as I wanted to raise some points for consideration, and I'm more than happy with the points I've raised, and also content with the fact that not many will agree. Besides, it's far more exciting to dream about an independent Toronto CPL side instead, that's one of the main purposes of this thread anyways.
    I lived in Ottawa previously and follow the Fury as well. I'm providing my view on what I would like to see in the near future, which I completely understand is in the minority, and I can honestly say that if I was in Ottawa right now, I would very much welcome a CPL that had both Fury and TFC II in it. And that for me is because I've been following La Liga closely for many years and I really admired their development system from bottom to top, and felt that many of the things they do, including allowing B sides all the way up to the Segunda Division and/or a division below the senior side, is something we could borrow or replicate for the Canadian system. I don't speak for others, but for myself personally, I'm not making this argument because I think the minor league teams of MLS sides are "good enough" opponents for Ottawa, Calgary or Hamilton.

    That being said, I completely hear Steven that the average sports fan in those cities would probably feel exactly how he just described, and that is just how it goes. To me, it sucks to hear that most fans don't consider the MLS reserve sides good enough for CPL, purely as a sporting concept, but I hear him and others that that is the will of the people. But to me, the primary purpose of CPL is still that sporting perspective, that we are aiming to grow club footy all throughout Canada, ultimately to continue to develop CanMNT.
  7. Like
    BringBackTheBlizzard reacted to mpg_29 in Canadian Premier League   
    You are missing the point though.  Without some formal partnership and acknowledgement of hierarchy from the CSA between the 3 MLS teams and CanPL they will be in direct competition with each other whether they admit it or not.
    And I think at most risk for the CanPL is losing out higher quality Canadian players to the MLS clubs. Which will then dilute the on field product of the CanPL (which will be very tough on what I am guessing will be a new struggling league).
    So in my mind CanPL will lose hard if competing with the MLS clubs for young Canadian talent. You think TFC with it's resources and Vancouver Whitecaps with it's academies all over the country will just roll over...no way. And that is only from club perspective. I'm betting if Canadian players have a choice they would choose the MLS over CanPL for money and career opportunities.
    So like I said before there are 2 obvious choices
    1) MLS teams have to go...somehow
    2) There is an agreement and acknowledgement of hierarchy from the start and MLS can have it's second teams playing in CanPL (with completely separate branding of first team)
  8. Like
    BringBackTheBlizzard reacted to 1996 in Canadian Premier League   
    It looks like the majority of people on here that would love to see the CSA force the successful pro  3 MLS Canadian  teams into the CPL or out of the MLS and probably out of soccer seem to be people  in the non MLS Canadian cities. What these 3 MLS cities have done is raise the profile of soccer in general in Canada, they have filled their stadiums on a consistent basis, showing all the soccer haters that pro soccer in Canada can fill stadiums just like the other major sports. They have spent millions raising the profile of the game to the level it has not been since the old NASL days. All the other attempts to raise the profile of the pro game in Canada after the old NASL folded  failed miserably. These  Canadian MLS teams have all spent millions on developing Canadian players through their academies and it's still way too early days to see the fruits  of their labour  yet, give these academies another 10 years before we start  criticizing them. I find it very interesting that the CFL seems to be behind some of this push for a Canadian league, the CFL would love nothing better than to have the CSA force the 3 MLS Canadian teams  out of the MLS, so that the CFL can have these three big Canadian cities all to themselves once again and not have to compete with the MLS in Canada's 3 biggest cities, because as we are seeing ever since the MLS has arrived in Canada's three big cities CFL  attendance has gone down significantly in Toronto and Vancouver and even in Montreal.
  9. Like
    BringBackTheBlizzard reacted to zen in Canadian Premier League   
    I do hope the CPL succeeds and will support a team in the GTA as long as whatever the plan is is not at the expense of Toronto FC. I would rather watch players like Giovinco dazzle us than watch Issey. If I could do both that would be ideal. I agree, as I've stated before in the thread I think even with the CPL, having a continued stake in MLS is valuable to us in the long run.
  10. Like
    BringBackTheBlizzard reacted to ted in Canadian Premier League   
    I would not describe that as, "out to lunch". I would describe that as a pessimistic but probably realistic assessment of the potential league. With the player pool available being primarily Canadians playing in USL, PDL and colleges how can it be much better? More talented Canadians are currently being paid decent wages in MLS, NASL, and foreign leagues.
    The idea that is totally, "out to lunch" is the utterly nonsensical proposition that Canadian teams will be forced to drop out of MLS or NASL and join this league in 2018. Not. Gonna. Happen.
    No kidding. Promoting the game in Canada and providing places that develop new talent could be seen as compatible with their business rather than competition.
  11. Like
    BringBackTheBlizzard reacted to Rheo in Canadian Premier League   
    Does it enter anyone's mind that MLSE could be sincere in their hopes that the league succeeds.  Bottom line is the growth of the game in Canada makes them more money in the long run.  God help us that a billion dollar corporation might want to help the league
  12. Like
    BringBackTheBlizzard got a reaction from baulderdash77 in Canadian Premier League   
    I know that and have pointed that out in this thread. The question is what the Candian legal system would do if this was challenged in the courts. The CSA doesn't have tens to hundreds of millions to compensate for lost franchise values.
  13. Like
    BringBackTheBlizzard got a reaction from baulderdash77 in Canadian Premier League   
    You really think that's going to happen? I'd be amazed if the three MLS franchises didn't have their legal teams explore whether the CSA could ever do that and get away with it before they handed over their franchise fees to MLS.
  14. Like
    BringBackTheBlizzard reacted to Michael Crampton in Canadian Premier League   
    Who knows, it's not impossible that the CSA isn't determined to shoot the brains out of Canadian pro soccer.
    The reality is that there are three stable professional clubs who have made the pro game work in Canada, and grow, for the first time in decades. Those clubs all operate second teams in the USL.
    Maybe the CSA just wants to find out about how that relationship is working out for MLSE.
    Nah, who am I kidding? Let's kick the country's three most popular clubs out of the Voyageur's Cup (like I keep seeing suggested). That's sure to make the tournament more popular.
  15. Like
    BringBackTheBlizzard got a reaction from Kent in Canadian Premier League   
    The latter.
  16. Like
    BringBackTheBlizzard got a reaction from ironcub14 in Canadian Premier League   
    You do realize that they have about ten times our population? Given the advantages of being able to play outdoors year round across the southern states and the heavy emphasis placed on high school sports and the NCAA full ride scholarship combined with PDL pathway (less than perfect compared to Europe but still a lot better than anything we had in place pre-MLS academy programs) that really doesn't look in any way outrageous to me. A rule change would help a bit and definitely should be made, but it is not going to suddenly transform the situation and it has been disingenuous of Victor Montagliani to suggest otherwise, in my opinion, but politicians usually tell people what they want to hear rather than getting people to face unpalatable truths.
  17. Like
    BringBackTheBlizzard got a reaction from ironcub14 in Canadian Premier League   
    It would need to be higher than that and it's not enough to just "get" them, they also need to pay, which is something a lot of the announced attendance in Ottawa is not doing at the moment. Break even in Ottawa is 7500 and it's 9000 in Edmonton and that's with budgets that are probably significantly lower than you envisage for CPL. Neither of the NASL teams is even close to balancing their budget at the moment in what should be the best available Canadian markets not in MLS. The bottom line is that everybody understands why having more Canadian pro teams with lots of Canadian on their rosters would be a good thing and I don't think anyone is opposed to that in principle. The problem is that somebody has to be willing to do a Lamar Hunt or a Phil Anschutz and burn through $100 million dollars waiting a decade or so for the business model to stabilize. Good luck with that!
  18. Like
    BringBackTheBlizzard got a reaction from ironcub14 in Canadian Premier League   
    Yes, and where are you even going with that? It's not directly related to what I posted which was clearing up the possible misconception that Canada is restricted to 9 roster spots in MLS. There's a reason why I posted that if we produced more players like Cyle Larin, Anthony Totera might still be working at selling season tickets for the North York Rockets. I don't think the youth development system in Canada has done a good enough job (there may be huge registration numbers, but most of it is a glorified babysitting service) and see that as being the main reason for failure to get anywhere in World Cups and the main reason why the entertainment product has not been high enough over the last 30 years to attract and sustain pro level crowds for teams with predominantly Canadian rosters.
    I hope the rule change goes through, but I seriously doubt that there are more than a handful of players that are truly being affected negatively by its absence, as things stand at the moment. If there really were a large number of MLS level Canadian players being restricted from playing in MLS by the roster rules, why did FC Edmonton field a team without a single Canadian in it for the first time ever recently in an NASL game? Also, if US based MLS teams are actively excluding Canadians, because the roster rules are an insurmountable impediment, why would they even bother to have 15 Canadians on their USL rosters? Once that's factored in along with the players playing USL in Canada there were 93 players on MLS and MLS affiliated USL rosters this summer. The key is that we need more of them to be as good as Cyle Larin.
  19. Like
    BringBackTheBlizzard got a reaction from ironcub14 in Canadian Premier League   
    There needs to be an entertainment product that people will want to pay to watch. Anthony Totera was involved with a league that didn't even come close to making it financially, because it completely failed to do that. Can understand why there is this seething anger and jealousy about Americans coming in and taking all our jobs from coaches, players and administrators that think they should have them instead as some sort of birthright, but I seriously doubt that many spectators will show up to watch Andrea Lombardo rather than Sebastian Giovinco out of a sense of patriotism and I will be very surprised if these guys can line up blue chip investors in the absence of the three MLS franchises being forced to play in CPL or closed down through having their sanctioning pulled. You can't eat your cake and have it too. Beyond that do you grasp that I would like the idea of the CPL if life was a utopia, but would prefer that the CSA gets on with dealing with reality warts and all, given that it is not?
  20. Like
    BringBackTheBlizzard reacted to Viruk42 in Canadian Premier League   
    Fair enough, it does seem to match up fairly closely to the proportion number of spots. I looked at wikipedia pages' "current roster" (which, it should be noted, does include people who have played 0 games for the team, like Laryea with Orlando, but I'm not so insane as to go through player by player to determine nationality per game played), and came up with these totals:
    US teams: 238 Americans (52.2%), 3 Canadians (0.7%), 456 total
    Cdn teams: 24 Americans (28.6%), 26 Canadians (31.0%), 84 total
    MLS totals: 262 Americans (48.5%), 29 Canadians (5.4%), 540 total.
    5.4% / 48.5% = 0.1113.
    Canada's 2013 population (35.16mil) / US 2013 population (316.5mil) = 0.1111.
    So you were right on that front, my apologies. 
  21. Like
    BringBackTheBlizzard reacted to 1996 in Canadian Premier League   
    I will totally be into the Canadian MLS teams pulling out of the MLS when the Canadian NHL teams, when Canada's favourite team the Blue Jays or the Raptors all pull out of their leagues to go play in Canadian leagues. Moreover, Canadian players in these other sports are playing in these leagues on merit because they are good and the same should apply for Canadian soccer players in the MLS if you are good enough you will make it even on American MLS teams if not then you don't simple as that just like the other sports leagues . The MLS in the three Canadian cities has proved to all the soccer haters in the mainstream media and the general  public that  soccer is pretty popular as a spectator sports in Canada if you put a team in the top North American  soccer League in some of the biggest Canadian cities , and , Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal are proving this with their attendances so far.
  22. Like
    BringBackTheBlizzard reacted to lazlo_80 in Canadian Premier League   
    Ansem I think you overestimate the cards Canada holds with the MLS to some degree. Would the MLS losing the three Canadian markets be a HUGE blow to the league? I'm not so sure. I think Toronto would make a dent, but would the league be too upset with losing a market like Montreal? I'm not so sure. Especially if it gave them an open slot to put a team in a bigger American market. And please don't interpret this as a knock on fans in Montreal or me thinking they don't deserve a team, this is all hypothetical. With the exception of Toronto most of the other big US leagues don't have any presence in Canada and rarely show much interest in making that move. TV contracts in Canada are peanuts compared to American ones.
    I also don't think your point A is as black and white as you make it. If the CSA's mandate is to grow the game in Canada how could alienating a fan base in the biggest market as well as destroy a business model that was funding one of the best academies in the country be a good thing for growing the game? It's fair to be frustrated with the MLS and their treatment of Canadians, and Toronto FC's position in that but what you're suggesting would be akin to the CSA cutting off it's nose to spite its face.
    The good news is it sounds like a new rule change will be announced to help with Canadians in MLS.
  23. Like
    BringBackTheBlizzard reacted to AnOutsider in Canadian Premier League   
    Good God, CPL fanboyism has gone crazy.
    You go from
    "Garber comments on CPL being a lower league within the Canadian structure made it on Wikipedia page and still being there?"
    "Perhaps MLS being challenged in Canada bothers them more than we think."
    Talk about overstretching...
    You know literally everyone can edit Wikipedia pages?
    Your assertion is utterly ridiculous unless you can prove the person put that part on the page was on MLS duty.
  24. Like
    BringBackTheBlizzard got a reaction from ironcub14 in Canadian Premier League   
    That's what makes sense, but it is unpalatable to people in Hamilton on the one hand (they want something like Argos vs Ticats rather being at the equivalent of AHL level), and to CSA types on the other, who prefer to talk up the domestic player rule issue to admitting that a very large part of the reason that there are so few Canadian players in MLS is that player development in Canada started to lag well behind what was happening in the United States from about the mid-90s onwards when large suburban youth clubs started to eclipse ethnic clubs at that level of the sport.
    The collapse of semi-pro leagues like the old NSL in Toronto that used to bring experienced pro level players over from Europe for top local players to play alongside was a major problem because it disrupted what had been a relatively successful player development pathway when compared to what was happening in the United States. In the 1970s this foundation level in the sport driven by the post-WW2 immigration wave from Europe helped CMNT players to dominate the domestic roster spots in the original NASL with Iarusci at the Cosmos etc.
    From the mid-90s onwards after leagues like the NSL and the original CSL had collapsed and been replaced by glorified amateur leagues like the CPSL, we didn't have anything truly comparable to NCAA sports scholarships to keep players in the sport in the late teens once youth soccer stops as a stepping stone to pro level, because there was a major disconnect between the elite youth club and senior amateur and semi-pro levels of the sport. MLS is now helping to put a better development pathway in place again, but that sticks in the CSA's craw, because they have been very much sidelined in elite player development by the three MLS academies in a manner that wasn't part of the deal back in 2007.
  25. Like
    BringBackTheBlizzard got a reaction from Shway in Canadian Premier League   
    If the CSA wants a CPL, I strongly suspect that the three MLS teams would need to be brought back into the CSA fold and participate in it, so the major media markets are present and can be used to subsidize what happens in the smaller cities through revenue sharing given FC Edmonton level paid attendance could easily happen. The idea that teams can compete in competition with them in the three major markets looks like a pipe dream to me. Toronto Nationals and Inter Montreal may have been over 30 years ago now, but I suspect things would follow a similar trajectory, if anybody tried it. If, as seems exceedingly likely, the mighty Vic Montagliani won't be able to force the MLS teams back, the CSA needs to get real and start working with MLS rather than at cross-purposes with it. If USL is where things are currently at in terms of having a stable lower tier, then that's where things are at.
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