Copa America: Canada vs Uruguay - Saturday, July 13th - 8pm Eastern / 5pm Pacific - Charlotte, North Carolina

[gator]

6 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

Have to be honest, I'm concerned about our players getting injured in this game. I have zero confidence in the refs to control things. Don't think its worth it even for $1M or  a shot at 3rd. Some of the tackles can easily end up ending a career or players missing a significant part of their club season. Uruguay may tone it down for a 3rd/4th place game but I get the feeling it's how Bielsa wants them to play and their bench  will want to prove they can do it. Just imagine if (yes,I know it can happen in practice) Davies/David/Kone etc get seriously injured.

Completely agree and I was hoping we wouldn't face Uruguay for that reason, they are a gang of thugs, always have been and this edition is no different, maybe worse! Some of the tackles I have seen in this tournament are truly dispicaple and could easily end a player's career and yet many go unpunished, it's a tough call for me how we should approach this match! Perhaps we can look at it as a good learning experience, we will face other dirty teams no doubt but I am genuinely fearful for the safety of our players and maybe our fans! 

[Lansdude]

On the one hand I'm thinking, no, CONMEBOL can't be so blatantly corrupt, incompetent, shameless, ass-covering, greedy, et cetera that they won't hand out suspensions when any other respectable governing body in the world would... But on the other hand, I recognize that there's basically an entirely different worldview at work here and wouldn't be surprised. I'm prepared to laugh when Nunez dodges suspension for imitating Streets of Fury on multiple video recordings, and Bentancur doming and bloodying guy throwing a glass bottle. We already know CONMEBOL doesn't give a shit about rules, fairness, or safety, why not go fully mask off?

[Bison44]

That was straight out of SLAPSHOT.  How can they not punish players for going into the stands and slugging it out???  Shouldnt the american police look into that??  

[BearcatSA]

2 hours ago, Sal333 said:

Of course, there will be a suspension or two.

Probably members of the Uruguayan physio/training team will take the fall and be banned for a few matches starting Saturday.

[Joe MacCarthy]

 

[jdcyantsis]

So what are everyone's thoughts on what a rotated squad will look like on Saturday?

I'm thinking:

                   Bair

        Millar-Kone-JRR

        Piette-Choiniere

Ahmed-Miller-LDF-Laryea

                  DSC

I think that everyone's perception of Marsch utilizing a 4-4-2 just because David and Larin being both natural strikers is kind of overblown as I feel its mostly been a 4-2-3-1 with David playing the 10. When you look at their average heatmap, David has mostly been playing 20 yards deeper on the pitch than Larin. So while I feel there's a chance that there could be a Tani-Bair combo, I think its more likely to just be one of them, with a Kone or Osorio playing as a 10 and the Montreal pair in behind them. Feel like Laryea will give AJ a spell on the bench as he's played every minute so far.

              Tani-Bair

                 Kone

        Piette-Choiniere

Ahmed-Miller-Waterman-LDF-Laryea

                  DSC

Another alternative may be to go with one more in the back with Waterman playing between Miller and LDF to insulate LDF and Ahmed at the back, shifting Ahmed and Laryea to wingbacks, while also getting both Tani and Theo a look. I don't think its super likely as I assume Marsch wants to keep the similar system in place they've put in place over the last month and change. 

[TOcanadafan]

1 hour ago, Bison44 said:

That was straight out of SLAPSHOT.  How can they not punish players for going into the stands and slugging it out???  Shouldnt the american police look into that??  

The story has already been spun... the video clip of Nunez holding his daughter - fighting to protect his family.  The useless American police not protecting the children and family members.

https://x.com/herculezg/status/1811253759290552715https://x.com/herculezg/status/1811253759290552715

To me, it makes no sense that Columbian fans, after winning, would go and attack the Uruguayans.

 

[theaub]

Winning or losing has zero impact when alcohol is involved....

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

56 minutes ago, BearcatSA said:

Probably members of the Uruguayan physio/training team will take the fall and be banned for a few matches starting Saturday.

Absolutely biased and you will see why but this situation is not unique unfortunately.

 

To try and give a full story - in the Conference League semi-final 22/23 first leg, AZ Alkmaar score a goal and their friends and family, placed in the "good seats" surrounded by West Ham supporters, celebrate.  They are allegedly (I only hedge that because I have not seen video of it) verbally threatened by West Ham supporters. 

On the return leg, the AZ "ultras" organise a post game attack on the similar West Ham section. Here is where the videos begin

The first is from a Dutch daily.  It really shows before and after the players involvement.  But you can start to see the players come in before the view switches in the middle - at about 1:00.

The second is from the Times and focuses on the players area. 

The players are obviously distressed and try to get it but either are held back or start yelling for the family and friends to move back.

 

I guess this where it departs from Nunez because he was able to get it and keep going after probably the immediate threat was passed. 

 

Similarly issues in security, though it is one of intergration in the States and one of having a seperate posh section for family and friends by UEFA.  (The actual away section was plexiglassed off and around on one of the corners.)

Edited July 11 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

We get a different Venezuelan ref.

https://copaamerica.com/es/novedades/arbitros-final-tercer-puesto-copa-america

[DrunkOffPunch]

1 hour ago, TOcanadafan said:

The useless American police not protecting the children and family members.

 

 

Blame CONMEBOL. Less security at that game than a Charlotte FC game.

[PastPros]

Karl Hiebert is the only player I don't care to see play. If the goal is 2026, what's the point? There's 0 chance he takes a step up in the next two years.

Waterman and Piette are probably in the same category I guess, but I have a soft spot for both.

[jonovision]

2 hours ago, jdcyantsis said:

So what are everyone's thoughts on what a rotated squad will look like on Saturday?

I'm thinking:

                   Bair

        Millar-Kone-JRR

        Piette-Choiniere

Ahmed-Miller-LDF-Laryea

                  DSC

I think that everyone's perception of Marsch utilizing a 4-4-2 just because David and Larin being both natural strikers is kind of overblown as I feel its mostly been a 4-2-3-1 with David playing the 10. When you look at their average heatmap, David has mostly been playing 20 yards deeper on the pitch than Larin. So while I feel there's a chance that there could be a Tani-Bair combo, I think its more likely to just be one of them, with a Kone or Osorio playing as a 10 and the Montreal pair in behind them. Feel like Laryea will give AJ a spell on the bench as he's played every minute so far.

              Tani-Bair

                 Kone

        Piette-Choiniere

Ahmed-Miller-Waterman-LDF-Laryea

                  DSC

Another alternative may be to go with one more in the back with Waterman playing between Miller and LDF to insulate LDF and Ahmed at the back, shifting Ahmed and Laryea to wingbacks, while also getting both Tani and Theo a look. I don't think its super likely as I assume Marsch wants to keep the similar system in place they've put in place over the last month and change. 

I don't think playing a full second-choice lineup of players who haven't started this tournament is a good idea, or even giving a fair chance to those players to showcase themselves.

[TOcanadafan]

1 hour ago, DrunkOffPunch said:

Blame CONMEBOL. Less security at that game than a Charlotte FC game.

Agree, but CONMEBOL will shift the blame.

[AvroArrow]

My guess is they come out and say something along the lines of "this was a serious situation and thorough analysis will be completed once the tournament is done so we can dedicate the time required to review the entire situation.  Any suspensions will be issued at that time." So no suspensions for the third place game and they can then issue short suspensions when everyone has forgotten.

[AvroArrow]

6 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

Seriously...

I have loved being a part of this tournament, but certain elements have underscored the farcical elements.  I know it is just one incident, but one of the most blatant example of bias for me was the failure to caution the keeper who literally ran to the sidelines and tried to wrestle the ball away from our player to prevent a quick throw in.  You couldn't get a more cut-and-dried decision  - that is a slam-dunk yellow care 100% of the time.  And yet it was completely ignored (to the benefit of the South American team).  The chart showing fouls vs cautions is further objective proof of the officiating silliness that has taken place throughout the tournament.  Etc.  

But a failure by CONMEBOL to caution players who literally went into the stands and attacked opposing fans would elevate the bias and stupidity to the next level.  It is unthinkable in any normal circumstances that they would not face significant punishment.  There is undeniable footage of the event, and precedents exist for the appropriate response.  If CONMEBOL only issues a statement chastising the offenders and does nothing else, it firmly cements the reality that this tournament is part sport, part scripted theatre.  

I can think of a more cut and dry situation: head butting Alistair Johnston and no var review.  But I digress....

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

3 hours ago, TOcanadafan said:

The story has already been spun... the video clip of Nunez holding his daughter - fighting to protect his family.  The useless American police not protecting the children and family members.

https://x.com/herculezg/status/1811253759290552715https://x.com/herculezg/status/1811253759290552715

To me, it makes no sense that Columbian fans, after winning, would go and attack the Uruguayans.

 

I would be interested to know when this happened 

 

 

[jdcyantsis]

22 minutes ago, jonovision said:

I don't think playing a full second-choice lineup of players who haven't started this tournament is a good idea, or even giving a fair chance to those players to showcase themselves.

Life isn't fair. You can't wait around for the perfect conditions in order for each of them to get a shot, especially when international games haven't really come around that often prior to this window. They're all professionals, they've all been in training for over a month together, I'd almost argue there's no more ideal opportunity to give most of these guys a shot than now and if they're not ready for that opportunity that's on them.

There's 15 guys in the squad with starts under Marsch. Two are keepers. Likely two will be unavailable (Tajon, Davies). That leaves 11 guys for 10 outfield player spots left, and the first XI I guessed at still includes 3 of them (Millar, Kone, Laryea) and 4 others have had minutes off the bench. 

After Argentina, Marsch said there would be heavy rotation, and then there were other quotes where he specifically mentioned LDF. Derek and Moise have obviously established themselves as the first choice pairing, with LDF coming in one of them comes out (one of them could stay in, but I don't see the harm in giving Miller a start, he's already got 40+ caps). I don't see Steph or David starting considering the workload they've put in to this point (and for the same reason, I only see one of AJ or Laryea starting). I fully expect 3 of the 4 of Piette, Choiniere, Kone and Osorio to start in the middle. Larin seems like prime territory for another striker to get a look, whether that be Tani or Theo. That leaves 2 of Shaff, Millar, and JRR for the winger spots. With Ahmed coming in for Davies, I think it makes sense for Millar to get the start at LW to help out with his two way play. Given all these assumptions, the XI quickly looks like the first XI I guessed at.

 

[maplebanana]

At some point way after I checked the game, google updated the URU-COL match to include a red card for Guillermo Varela. 

[Obinna]

Tail end of the video the panel is asked by Seb to pick a 3rd place winner. Keller picks Canada because he thinks Uruguay aren't going to mentally and emotionally show up after the energy draining semi-final with Colombia. Ale Moreno with basically the same take, but is picking Uruguay on the premise they show up to play. I think he's still hurt Vinotinto lost to us lol.

Herc picks Canada and the lads all give him shit saying he's playcating to his "Canadian" base and vying for a Canadian passport. All in good fun of course, but it's kind of cool to see Herc stand up for Canada on occassion. Respect!

 

[Unnamed Trialist]

All this over the top bile about Uruguay but the only serious injury in the entire tournament was done in a Canadian training session. So if anything, if you want to get up in arms, ask what was going on there. At least a bit of a rant about Marsch's training, don't you think?

There have been no other major injuries apart from Tajon in this tournament, I don't think there is a single injury keeping any player of the 16 nations involved out more than a few weeks.

Then we lost Hoillet in one of our sessions as well. 

Any of these guys has seen equally hard play and fouling in any of their leagues. If you don't think Johnston has, or Cornelius in Sweden, or the guys in Championship, you are mistaken. Ligue 1 is quite physical, the lesser teams in Germany play Bayern tough. 

The point is to not get distracted by the embellishments, and hounding the ref, and other similar ignoble gamesmanship. If we could keep the ball instead of squandering it, we'd have double the attacking plays, would increase our chances on goal, and maybe even change the narrative. Teams that are losing don't time-waste or do Borjan-style timeouts to reset the team.

Objectively, I cannot name one referee decision that has clearly affected a Canada result in these last 7 games. Maybe the headbutt, but we got the rival's red anyways not too long after. We are playing Copa and they have not even called a penalty against us and we haven't seen a red, which makes us exceptional amongst the overall set of teams. Even if you compare with Euros, look at the reffing controversies: we haven't had anything close to being that decisive.

Edited July 11 by Unnamed Trialist

[Unnamed Trialist]

Spanish-language media are now reporting they've opened investigations on the incidents and that Conmebol will have to decide on the sanctions for the incident in the other semifinal before the 3rd place match Saturday.

https://redgol.cl/copa-america/sanciones-conmebol-abrira-expediente-por-incidentes-de-uruguay-colombia-en-la-copa-america

[Ally McCoist]

I don't want to see Larin starting this Saturday.

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Spanish-language media are now reporting they've opened investigations on the incidents and that Conmebol will have to decide on the sanctions for the incident in the other semifinal before the 3rd place match Saturday.

https://redgol.cl/copa-america/sanciones-conmebol-abrira-expediente-por-incidentes-de-uruguay-colombia-en-la-copa-america

ESPN were reporting that Colombian fans were attacking a section of Uruguay supporters that contained family members of the Uruguayan players. Darwin Nunez supposedly had a toddler in the section, along with his wife. I haven't seen the footage, but based on what's being said I don't blame him for defending his family, if that's how it went down. 

Edited July 11 by Obinna

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

Just now, Obinna said:

ESPN were reporting that Colombian fans were attacking a section of Uruguay supporters that contained family members of the Uruguayan players. Darwin Nunes supposedly had a toddler in the section, along with his wife. I haven't seen the footage, but based on what's being said I don't blame him for defending his family, if that's how it went down. 

Above there is footage of him threatening the Columbia fans, picking up a chair but to be fair throwing back on the ground.

 

Not sure if that is before or after him being in the crowd. 

I am sympathetic as you say and because of what happened to West Ham.  

 

I guess when you do say the threat to your family is gone and when are you expected to dial it back.