Copa America: Canada vs Peru - Tuesday, June 25th - 6pm Eastern / 3pm Pacific - Kansas City, Kansas

[Ally McCoist]

An interesting to note is that this win vs Peru brought us up to rank #32 according to the ELO ratings (which imo is better than the FIFA ranking).

[Unnamed Trialist]

6 hours ago, Bigandy said:

Interesting (and irrelevant topic).  Van dijk pre and post injury are very different. Maybe alaba will be the same. Van dijk wouldn’t get dropped from the national team for Alaba with our current coach.  Playing geertruida over de ligt in a back 3 or over dumfries in a 4 shows that players are chosen stylistically more than on ability. 
 

van dijk dominates everything aerially, plays diagonals to dumfries, and organizes us better than Alaba would.  Alaba is more well rounded and works for rm where there’s no weaknesses. I think we would play him cm.  

Full points for not falling into my Anti Oranje diatribe 😉

[Kadenge]

In  retrospect, the high temperatures and humidity certainly  had a significant impact on the performance of our players. Same for both teams but with a  wiley squad of seasoned vets and style of play, it favored Peru. Let's face it our squad has more young thoroughbreds than mules and  are not yet suited to play the type of game Peru brought and  certainly not under those conditions. I'm sure the US squad would have also struggled. I once played in a tournament in Barbados in August at 3pm and I almost passed out with heat stroke. 

[InglewoodJack]

18 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

 once played in a tournament in Barbados in August at 3pm and I almost passed out with heat stroke. 

I played a baseball tournament in sunny Ormstown, Quebec, and nearly got heat stroke. Mid day Kansas City and you’re out there for ~50 minutes straight x2 is just complete nonsense. 

[ensco]

27 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

In  retrospect, the high temperatures and humidity certainly  had a significant impact on the performance of our players. Same for both teams but with a  wiley squad of seasoned vets and style of play, it favored Peru. Let's face it our squad has more young thoroughbreds than mules and  are not yet suited to play the type of game Peru brought and  certainly not under those conditions. I'm sure the US squad would have also struggled. I once played in a tournament in Barbados in August at 3pm and I almost passed out with heat stroke. 

This is the thing that makes this a famous victory. It was extreme adversity.

That, and the fact the Peru are being treated a little unseriously, generally, in considering what happened. They  made the semis and the finals of the last two Copas, and I am certain gutted out numerous games in those tournaments that looked just like our victory Tuesday.

 

[PastPros]

14 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

I played a baseball tournament in sunny Ormstown, Quebec, and nearly got heat stroke. Mid day Kansas City and you’re out there for ~50 minutes straight x2 is just complete nonsense. 

Once walked 10mins to get beer in 35C and had to sit in the beer fridge for 10mins to recover. Called my wife to pick me up, instead of walking back.

Edited June 27 by PastPros

[Obinna]

29 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

I played a baseball tournament in sunny Ormstown, Quebec, and nearly got heat stroke. Mid day Kansas City and you’re out there for ~50 minutes straight x2 is just complete nonsense. 

Speaking of Quebec, back in U-15, we played in the National All-Star tournament in Sherbrooke Quebec. Game against Saskatchewan was at 9 am because it was mad hot, somewhere in the 30s.

Teammate of mine played absolutely out of his mind and had the game of his life, but at half time had a heat stroke. It was scary and first time I ever saw that. He was behind the bench shaking and was done after that, but he played so well that he got scouted to play at NTC Halifax later that year. I'm convinced it was his heatstroke game that did it, as I never saw him play so well. Definitely pushed himself way too hard in that heat, but I guess it paid off...?

Well funny enough, when he showed up to the National training centre, he was woefully out of shape and unprepared. I mean, he was 15 years old and probably never had the maturity, seriousness and discipline to keep himself fit during the off season, but in any case, half way through the first session in Halifax (Stephen Hart was running it btw), he runs to the bathroom during a water break and pukes his guts up. That was his first and last invite to NTC lol.

It was years later when he told me all the details. Couldn't believe all that running in the heat in Quebec was all for nothing lol

[InglewoodJack]

4 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Speaking of Quebec, back in U-15, we played in the National All-Star tournament in Sherbrooke Quebec. Game against Saskatchewan was at 9 am because it was mad hot, somewhere in the 30s.

Teammate of mine played absolutely out of his mind and had the game of his life, but at half time had a heat stroke. It was scary and first time I ever saw that. He was behind the bench shaking and was done after that, but he played so well that he got scouted to play at NTC Halifax later that year. I'm convinced it was his heatstroke game that did it, as I never saw him play so well. Definitely pushed himself way too hard in that heat, but I guess it paid off...?

Well funny enough, when he showed up to the National training centre, he was woefully out of shape and unprepared. I mean, he was 15 years old and probably never had the maturity, seriousness and discipline to keep himself fit during the off season, but in any case, half way through the first session in Halifax (Stephen Hart was running it btw), he runs to the bathroom during a water break and pukes his guts up. That was his first and last invite to NTC lol.

It was years later when he told me all the details. Couldn't believe all that running in the heat in Quebec was all for nothing lol

People underestimate Canadian heat, especially in Quebec. Funny enough, I had read a few years ago that Montreal actually has the highest average summer temperature of any major city in Canada. The humidity certainly doesn’t help either. When it’s 30 degrees here, it’s actually 40, and the kind of heat that just sticks to you in a way that I haven’t really experienced in places like southern Europe, American west coast, other famously warm places. 
 

And all of this is nothing compared to kids who play American (or Canadian? Don’t know which rules they play by) football. My hometown had an elite program for a long time, and it was just year after year of kids keeling over after practicing in full gear in 30+ degree weather with coaches that think water breaks are privileges and that most of their kids don’t deserve them anyways.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

10 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

People underestimate Canadian heat, especially in Quebec. Funny enough, I had read a few years ago that Montreal actually has the highest average summer temperature of any major city in Canada. The humidity certainly doesn’t help either. When it’s 30 degrees here, it’s actually 40, and the kind of heat that just sticks to you in a way that I haven’t really experienced in places like southern Europe, American west coast, other famously warm places. 
 

And all of this is nothing compared to kids who play American (or Canadian? Don’t know which rules they play by) football. My hometown had an elite program for a long time, and it was just year after year of kids keeling over after practicing in full gear in 30+ degree weather with coaches that think water breaks are privileges and that most of their kids don’t deserve them anyways.

My first day in Toronto.  September 2011.  I had never lived anywhere but Alberta and the Southwest States, my record had been the equivalent of 42C but that was in the desert.  

30C exactly (I just looked the day up) in downtown Toronto felt way worse.  I had hired 2 moving helpers through Uhaul, only 1 showed up. (The other guy was smart). So dragging my furniture with him up through Graduate Student Housing on Yonge and Bloor (essentially) is the hottest I can ever remember being.

I don't seek hot places on vacation though, quite the opposite in fact. 

During the 2018 World Cup, Oxford got to 33C (I see) but it is fair ways from any body of water and didn't feel as bad as that day in Toronto.  But I was in buildings, working or watching football to be fair. 

[costarg]

2 hours ago, Kadenge said:

I once played in a tournament in Barbados in August at 3pm and I almost passed out with heat stroke. 

I hear you man.  I once had lobster and beer as a late afternoon snack in late July on the beach in Barbados, it was rough and nearly passed out myself.

[InglewoodJack]

1 hour ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

My first day in Toronto.  September 2011.  I had never lived anywhere but Alberta and the Southwest States, my record had been the equivalent of 42C but that was in the desert.  

30C exactly (I just looked the day up) in downtown Toronto felt way worse.  I had hired 2 moving helpers through Uhaul, only 1 showed up. (The other guy was smart). So dragging my furniture with him up through Graduate Student Housing on Yonge and Bloor (essentially) is the hottest I can ever remember being.

I don't seek hot places on vacation though, quite the opposite in fact. 

During the 2018 World Cup, Oxford got to 33C (I see) but it is fair ways from any body of water and didn't feel as bad as that day in Toronto.  But I was in buildings, working or watching football to be fair. 

Urban heat is crazy too. All those tall buildings and glass just bounce heat off everything. NYC is especially rough. 30 degrees in Manhattan feels like 45.

[Mattd97]

On 6/26/2024 at 9:09 AM, Snowcrash said:

Some people just can't seem to enjoy the moment.  It's like watching your kid score a couple of goals in house league and all you can talk about on the trip home is the the open net they missed. 

Were you hiding in our back seat, wtf

Edited June 27 by Mattd97

[Bison44]

3 hours ago, InglewoodJack said:

I played a baseball tournament in sunny Ormstown, Quebec, and nearly got heat stroke. Mid day Kansas City and you’re out there for ~50 minutes straight x2 is just complete nonsense. 

Worked in a burned forest, northern MB, getting bulk rock samples, swinging a 10lb sledge, pack full of rocks, no shade at all, water ran out mid day.  Humping across a floating bog, I remember it was so nice like a bouncy castle and then all I could see was 2 pin pricks of light in a dark tunnel in front of me.  10min later I came too, partner got me back to the boat, I drank a gallon of beaver fever infested creek water, threw it up and I have respected what the heat can do to you ever since.  

[Ottawafan]

What a great experience.  From the win, to the Peru fans being gracious, to the Canadian fans who were in 130 and stood the whole game cheering in that heat... was something special.

Pro tip... bring Liquid IV packets, dump them in your water.  Saved us on Tuesday!!

[Unnamed Trialist]

Guys it's fine to talk about the heat but noone is talking about a kind of play that allows you to run less and survive the heat. When I saw we had CBs lifting their heads to send long balls to the strikers around m. 8 I knew we were done for. 

It isn't that hard. You move the ball simply, short passes to the foot, your off the ball movement is also economical, you build slowly forward, and then the acceleration is when you're ready to attack. I've seen it done thousands of times, but of course that sounds a bit like pseudo tiki taka for old guys so we Canadians won't play that way. Beneath us. 

It is far easier to run when you have the ball than when you don't and you're chasing it. As Cruyff said, make the ball run so you don't have to. Cruyff conceived an ideal way of handling the heat coming from that extraordinary Ajax culture, but he implanted it in a southern clime. 

This is all like Lithuanian for Kone, nothing he's done until now would make any of what I'm saying intelligible. 

We have a few guys who have played this and understand it, like Staq, David was fine and Larin fairly good. Two of those have played in warmer leagues but also more technical leagues. I also felt Bombito did admiringly well. Davies held up physically too.

Of course from what folks say Marsch doesn't play that way so it's fundamentally on him for not even considering it as part of our repertoire. What he's saying suggesting a high press and running at those temperatures is a pretty damning admission of not having a good answer for a not uncommon problem.

 

[archer21]

Has anyone seen a VAR analysis of the headbutt? I’ve seen the Shaffelburg almost penalty against Argentina and the red on the tackle on Shaffelburg against Peru. How do they not release the video of the headbutt on Johnston? How do you not release the footage for the most controversial moment of the tournament, but you release the footage of the Argentina tackle even though everyone could see that it was outside the box clearly?

[Gian-Luca]

18 minutes ago, archer21 said:

Has anyone seen a VAR analysis of the headbutt? I’ve seen the Shaffelburg almost penalty against Argentina and the red on the tackle on Shaffelburg against Peru. How do they not release the video of the headbutt on Johnston? How do you not release the footage for the most controversial moment of the tournament, but you release the footage of the Argentina tackle even though everyone could see that it was outside the box clearly?

Everyone has said it was a red card in the post-match analysis, the only one who said otherwise was Fox Soccer so-called rules specialist Dr. Joe Machnik (sic?) who said during their broadcast as the incident was being reviewed that they likely didn't give a red card for the headbutt because it didn't cause enough damage to AJ - I guess from his perspective if you head butt a player, it is only a red card if you succeed in cracking the other player's skull. Completely ridiculous for him to say so of course, but perhaps he was suffering from both a headbutt he received while collapsing from heat stroke.

By the way - there was a PK in the Euros yesterday that Romania (IIRC) got which was nearly identical to the foul on Shaffelburg - a first foul outside the box and a second foul on the line. VAR gave the PK, as they should done in the Argentina game. Mind you, It's something of a minor miracle  that VAR worked in our favour even for one of the three calls

[archer21]

1 minute ago, Gian-Luca said:

Everyone has said it was a red card in the post-match analysis, the only one who said otherwise was Fox Soccer so-called rules specialist Dr. Joe Machnik (sic?) who said during their broadcast as the incident was being reviewed that they likely didn't give a red card for the headbutt because it didn't cause enough damage to AJ - I guess from his perspective if you head butt a player, it is only a red card if you succeed in cracking the other player's skull. Completely ridiculous for him to say so of course, but perhaps he was suffering from both a headbutt he received while collapsing from heat stroke.

By the way - there was a PK in the Euros yesterday that Romania (IIRC) got which was nearly identical to the foul on Shaffelburg - a first foul outside the box and a second foul on the line. VAR gave the PK, as they should done in the Argentina game. Mind you, It's something of a minor miracle  that VAR worked in our favour even for one of the three calls

It really is ridiculous that he said that. Proves that you really do need to roll around on the ground and make an act of it, which is not how it should be. VAR really should be helping get rid of the need for the hysterics. I’d like to hear from the actual VAR though to see if that was his reasoning. 
 

Even on the red card that Peru did get, the VAR official was going to not give the red card because the Peru player’s weight was going backwards as he was falling. He was basically talked into having the ref have a look at it by the assistants.

[GasPed]

37 minutes ago, archer21 said:

Even on the red card that Peru did get, the VAR official was going to not give the red card because the Peru player’s weight was going backwards as he was falling. He was basically talked into having the ref have a look at it by the assistants.

Also, call me cynical, but if not for the AJ non-call, I think the Shaff one would've just been a yellow.  The ref knew in the back of his mind he was lenient on the AJ call, and couldn't let another one go like that.  So from that perspective, I think the AJ incident was actually of some benefit ultimately.

[archer21]

2 hours ago, GasPed said:

Also, call me cynical, but if not for the AJ non-call, I think the Shaff one would've just been a yellow.  The ref knew in the back of his mind he was lenient on the AJ call, and couldn't let another one go like that.  So from that perspective, I think the AJ incident was actually of some benefit ultimately.

I see the logic but watching the VAR analysis video, I disagree. There’s really no evidence that that’s the case. Remember, he gave a yellow initially. If it was a make up call, he’d have just given the red straight away. He was pretty convinced right away though once he saw the video.

[GasPed]

1 minute ago, archer21 said:

I see the logic but watching the VAR analysis video, I disagree. There’s really no evidence that that’s the case. Remember, he gave a yellow initially. If it was a make up call, he’d have just given the red straight away. He was pretty convinced right away though once he saw the video.

What I'm saying is that if there had been no AJ incident, I think that ref just keeps the Shaff foul at a yellow.  No proof, but that's my gut.  Just like he kept the AJ thing as a no-foul.   

[red card]

Someone was filming the lady with the Poutine sign before panning away to the moment the AR collapsed.

Lots of thank you's to Canadian medical team & Crepeau. Stretcher guy was fast. Ref was quite nonchalant. Someone said where's the water boys and someone shouted to get the AR a beer.

 

Edited June 28 by red card

[Kadenge]

Who was the VAR official for the game? 

[Mihairokov]

8 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

Who was the VAR official for the game? 

[BearcatSA]

5 hours ago, Gian-Luca said:

Everyone has said it was a red card in the post-match analysis, the only one who said otherwise was Fox Soccer so-called rules specialist Dr. Joe Machnik (sic?) who said during their broadcast as the incident was being reviewed that they likely didn't give a red card for the headbutt because it didn't cause enough damage to AJ - I guess from his perspective if you head butt a player, it is only a red card if you succeed in cracking the other player's skull. Completely ridiculous for him to say so of course, but perhaps he was suffering from both a headbutt he received while collapsing from heat stroke.

I thought that was a terrible non-call and Machnik's opinion is ludicrous.