Adopting a Red Headed Step-Child.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

10 hours ago, ted said:

...Diving players, Argentinian or otherwise, is PRECISELY why soccer is still a tough sell in Canada...

There are already plenty of soccer fans in Canada, so there is no need to worry about people who spew ridiculous nonsense about the greatest sport in the world. If they don't appreciate what is unfolding in Qatar right now it is their loss not the sport of soccer's. What has made our sport a tough sell in terms of the domestic pro scene has been the relatively low playing standards more than anything else. Find an economic model that makes it possible to sign players like Giovinco or Insigne and there is no problem selling tickets. 

[ted]

13 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

There are already plenty of soccer fans in Canada...

Not enough, and anything that keeps potential fans away is a bad thing. This shouldn't even be a discussion.

[jonovision]

I think it is worth separating out the issues that people have a problem with, as some are legitimate gripes and others are simply people not understanding the game.

1) Diving/simulation to deceive the referee: a scourge, of course. It exists in every sport - far more frequent in basketball than in soccer, for example, but the stakes with a potential penalty are so much higher. 

2) Rolling around on the ground: no reason for this. If you're hurt you don't do two extra rolls, or you don't clutch your face when you've been hit on the ankle.

3) Laying down for a minute or two when you've been hurt, even if it's not serious: if you take a slap shot off the ankle or get the wind knocked out of you in gridiron, you can take a shift or a few plays off and come back. In soccer, where substitutions are permanent, the only real option you have is to take your time. No serious person should have an issue with this. 

The most unappealing behaviour of soccer players is crowding or finger waving the referee but I don't see too many complaints about that.

[ted]

13 hours ago, jonovision said:

I think it is worth separating out the issues that people have a problem with, as some are legitimate gripes and others are simply people not understanding the game.

Sorry but you are missing my entire point. It isn't about educating people about soccer. It is about a negative perception in the general populace that prevents them from giving soccer a try as a paid spectator sport.

Diving, cheating, general "weakness", whether reality-based or not, are perceptions that we have to overcome in some fashion every time we try and sell tickets to people not currently interested in soccer. This is of course one of the reasons that pro sports primarily sells to young adults, they have not yet formed the prejudices/preferences that will shape their viewing habits for life.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Glad Argentina won now. Suspect Croatia outstayed their welcome for most neutrals by at least a round by taking away the possibility of a Brazil vs Argentina semi but you can't fault them for adjusting their tactics to do what it takes to try to win against a technically superior opponent. Pity John Herdman wasn't following that playbook when we played them.

Edited December 14, 2022 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[The Pessimist]

Non soccer/football fans tell me that they don't watch soccer because it's too slow. When I point out to them that they like baseball even though it is a slower paced game they tell me it's because I don't understand the game. (Not true. I used to play baseball in my younger days). 

There does seem to be a general North American prejudice against soccer. I don't see that changing anytime soon.

[Unnamed Trialist]

On 12/13/2022 at 6:40 AM, ted said:

Not enough, and anything that keeps potential fans away is a bad thing. This shouldn't even be a discussion.

It shouldn't have to be a discussion that a bunch of fools who don't care about the game and have never made an effort to appreciate it should bother you at all. 

I've been reading idiotic comments on The Guardian site, usually much more judicious than most, about Messi. Messi is the player with the most "play ons" in the history of football, he is constantly playing through a clear foul to continue the play. But I realise that many of those slandering the guy are English who just plain hate Argentina and are lost in their delusional narrative of 1966, 1986 and on and on.

When people start yapping about this or that player, or the game, there are a few counters I use.

One is I just step on the side of their foot, lightly, or give them a little point of the shoe on the shin--and they jump around and react even worse than the worst embellisher. Basically they scream like bitches Jesse Pinkman dixit and give you these pathetic wronged stares. Those are the things, those feet, that are carrying the ball.

Or I just ask how much they've watched. They haven't, they only watch what feeds their ignorance, they have no idea of 99% of the reality of this or that player. Neymar got fouled 7 times in the first match of the WC and had to sit out two games because of it. That is anti-football and does far more to make the game hateful to on the fence fans, because it ruins the possibility of talent coming to the fore. It reduces matches to snooze-fests, which is much more damaging, because any time a talent tries to do anything, they are hacked. Now true, maybe Croatia should have hacked Messi a few times outside the box (that third goal play), but credit to them and their integrity that they tried to take the ball of him cleanly. Thanks to that, we got to watch a great play, which your "friends" could not give a flying F about.

My idea of football includes the talent of those who can dribble, punishes those hacking at them and injurying them, and appreciates that there are some collateral things always, about all great athletes.

Final argument, related: all team sports have embellishment. NFL wide receivers whing to refs about interference, that is a dozen times a game. Any NBA game going up for a layup defended, and they do that shout, that sort of "ey-eey", flaying their arms in the air as if they'd been sliced open. 5-10 times a game. Or on threes, they fake being fouled all the time, even the best shooters, to win some space for their talent to be able to thrive. Some live off that. Often it is so minor as to be laughable. Constant in NBA. 

Hockey had to include an embellishment penalty, it never existed when I was a kid. They did it because it had become flagrant and constant, and the refs had to have some way of punishing it. Of course it is not as frequently called, because hockey doesn't call a lot of borderline stuff.

By the way, most non-hockey nations cite goon fighting and spearing and cheap shots as a reason to not like the sport, but no one in Canada or any hockey nation could care less what they think. I don't care if they think about hockey as a goon sport in Brazil or Spain or China or Indonesia, those billions can just screw themselves.

We hockey fans, we are fine without those who don't get the nuance of the game.

And soccer is fine without your loser friends slagging it for the wrong reasons. Don't worry about them so much Ted, and don't be so weak willed. Defend the sport a bit, stand up to them. You can do it, just try.

 

Edited December 14, 2022 by Unnamed Trialist

[ted]

15 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

And soccer is fine without your loser friends slagging it for the wrong reasons. Don't worry about them so much Ted, and don't be so weak willed. Defend the sport a bit, stand up to them. You can do it, just try.

Well that was uncalled for and totally off the mark.

1. Am not talking about my friends. I am talking about work acquaintances, friends of friends, random people having discussions in public places. I am using them to illustrate anecdotally what happens outside our bubble of people who already support soccer.

2. I am not worrying about any individuals, I am having a discussion about increasing attendances at professional and national team games and obstacles to the kind of paid support we need to make further progress as a nation. If you think that paid ticket sales in Canada to these games do not need to increase, then by all means just keep insulting people.

3. As a matter of fact I do challenge people who have little knowledge of the sport and try to bring them around. Your assumption that I don't is clearly yet another attack on me personally.
 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

If anyone is still turned off soccer after a final like that it's got nothing to do with diving. 

[ted]

It was an excellent final. Hardly any diving.