CMNT supporters getting all expenses paid trips to Qatar?

[Shway]

3 minutes ago, jhoops__ said:

I Realize that but the old whataboutism take is weak af.

Whataboutism ah yes, a new age feel good term.
He who is without sin, cast the first stone. 

[jhoops__]

What

Edited November 22, 2022 by jhoops__

[RS]

Just now, jhoops__ said:

What

Basically it's ok to aid in Qatar's sportswashing efforts because Canada has skeletons in its own closet.

Of course the comparison goes off the rails because (to my knowledge) no one in soccer circles is accepting gifts from the Canadian government to help whitewash the bullshit that goes on here.

[jhoops__]

6 minutes ago, RS said:

Basically it's ok to aid in Qatar's sportswashing efforts because Canada has skeletons in its own closet.

Of course the comparison goes off the rails because (to my knowledge) no one in soccer circles is accepting gifts from the Canadian government to help whitewash the bullshit that goes on here.

Ridiculous way to live your life but hey, you can pretty much rationalize anything thinking that way  I guess.

Edited November 22, 2022 by jhoops__

[Shway]

1 minute ago, RS said:

Yes, that's how words work.

Sorry dude, you're not going to weasel your way out of what you wrote just because I only quoted part of it.

 weasel would probably best describe how you like to navigate convos. I stand on what I say and said, I’m always open to a discussion. You on the other hand like to tuck your tail and bring up something irrelevant …. a lot…like mentioning “we” when it couldve been Canadians”.

I’ve come to terms that a lot of people are fake humanitarians and cater to the latest trending topic but avoid/ignore other issues. You can do it online and look woke…but what have you done in real life. 

And with that I can only live for myself. Our country is far from perfect and we can only be the change in order to expect change. 

So until we are perfect….then I’ll look to what other countries do. 
 

Let’s start at home first is what whataboutism should be. 

[Shway]

So basically these guys have to post x amount of twitter post, reply to x amount of  post, post pictures and videos of them having a good time, what else denounce LGBTQ, and say they agree with the alcohol ban?

Or are they supposed to simply talk about the positive experiences they have?

You guys are crucifying Thomas Nef but on his latest podcast he goes completely against said contract….so I’m confused.

@shermanatorim going to need you to confirm this when it’s all over.

I know several stories of guys spending years in prison for crimes they didn’t commit only to be lest free…so shouldn’t there be details or confirmation first? Or did I miss it!

[RS]

16 minutes ago, Shway said:

 weasel would probably best describe how you like to navigate convos. I stand on what I say and said, I’m always open to a discussion. You on the other hand like to tuck your tail and bring up something irrelevant …. a lot…like mentioning “we” when it couldve been Canadians”.

It seems that, like the term whataboutism, you don't actually know what "You on the other hand like to tuck your tail and bring up something irrelevant" means.

What was irrelevant by what I brought up? I directly addressed what your post.

OK, so you wrote "we" when you meant "Canadians." How is that any different in this context? We are Canadians since this is a Canadian soccer forum, so clearly I understood exactly what you meant.

16 minutes ago, Shway said:

I’ve come to terms that a lot of people are fake humanitarians and cater to the latest trending topic but avoid/ignore other issues. You can do it online and look woke…but what have you done in real life. 

I'll tell you what I haven't done. I haven't taken a free trip from the Qatari government to help in their sportswashing efforts.

Anything else I have done is irrelevant to this conversation.

16 minutes ago, Shway said:

And with that I can only live for myself. Our country is far from perfect and we can only be the change in order to expect change. 

So until we are perfect….then I’ll look to what other countries do.

Yes, our country is far from perfect, and I agree that being the change in order to expect change is a good way to live life.

What I cannot understand is you writing that sentence while also saying it's cool to do with Kormish and Nef have (allegedly) done and that you would do the same. The two concepts are polar opposites.

[Shway]

16 hours ago, narduch said:

Kormish literally admitted it to the German press.

https://www.dw.com/en/fact-check-did-qatar-buy-international-world-cup-fans/a-63812616

 

Did he lie about the code of conduct?

[quote]Lee Kormish, of Canada, accepted the offer and traveled to Qatar. He told DW that he did not get a Code of Conduct but did receive flights, a hotel, a free ticket to the opening match and money for daily meals. He describes his apparently uniformly positive experience in Qatar in his video blog.[/quote]

So you can attend Qatar on your own money, but you can’t on their government? Do I have that right? 

[king1010]

4 minutes ago, Shway said:

So you can attend Qatar on your own money, but you can’t on their government? Do I have that right? 

yes. 

Edit: Especially if you're a journalist. And if not, at minimum you should disclose the arrangements

Edited November 22, 2022 by king1010

[RS]

You're being incredibly naïve here, @Shway.

Do you think the Qatari government is just handing out free trips to hundreds (maybe thousands) of fans from Western countries purely out of the goodness of their hearts? 

The old saying "there ain't no such thing as a free lunch" applies here.

[InglewoodJack]

18 minutes ago, Shway said:

You guys are crucifying Thomas Nef but on his latest podcast he goes completely against said contract….so I’m confused.

Link?

[Shway]

3 minutes ago, RS said:

You're being incredibly naïve here, @Shway.

Do you think the Qatari government is just handing out free trips to hundreds (maybe thousands) of fans from Western countries purely out of the goodness of their hearts? 

Okay cool, I’ll accept I’m being overly naive.
But at the same time I’m calling it the benefit of the doubt. 

Until we know for a fact that this is the case, I’ll hold my judgement for only Neff. But based on the latest NFP, I’m thinking there’s no way he could open up saying what he said and be on the sugar daddy vacay. If he is, and still can say that - I’m saying I would’ve signed up. 

Lee is saying/responding to some shady stuff, but that could simply be his take - and shows WE as Canadians still got work to do. But other than that, he’s just an opportunist…no?

The old saying "there ain't no such thing as a free lunch" applies here.

Very true, but at what cost?

[narduch]

20 minutes ago, Shway said:

 

You guys are crucifying Thomas Nef but on his latest podcast he goes completely against said contract….so I’m confused.

@shermanator

Where did you hear this?

Nef hasn't been on Northern Futbol for weeks now.

Does he have a new podcast?

Edited November 22, 2022 by narduch

[Shway]

1 minute ago, InglewoodJack said:

Link?

[Shway]

Just now, narduch said:

Where did you hear this?

Nef hasn't been on Northern Futbol for weeks now.

Does he have a new podcast?

Lol wait…did I get the voices mixed up lol 😂.

 

[narduch]

Just now, Shway said:

That's not Nef.

Nef hasn't been on the podcast for weeks now.

In fact they don't even list his name at the start anymore 

[InglewoodJack]

Take the free ticket from Qatar- lord knows most soccer fans don't have $8k to go to the tournament, but if the price you pay is showing your entire asshole by shilling for a foreign government, you look like an asshole. Even worse if you're a journalist.

 

This, for the record, would be the same thing I would say if in 2026 there are fans going "Akshually, we can't confirm all those bodies at the residential schools were killed there, perhaps aliens put them there, we will never know".

[InglewoodJack]

1 minute ago, Shway said:

Yeah, this segment, especially considering galindo is in Qatar points to them not necessarily seeing eye to eye on how Nef got there. I mean, you start a podcast that gets popular on the back of Canada making the world cup, and both original hosts go to Qatar and don't do content together while they're there? Don't want to read too much between the lines there, but it is a very strange situation to say the least.

[Greatest Cockney Rip Off]

If you want an idea of how these free trips work. 
 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/england-fans-paid-to-be-spies-at-world-cup-nt803jx23

I've copied the whole article as you need to sign up. If there are any objective, I’ll remove it. 
 

England fans paid to be ‘spies’ at World Cup

Group are expected to sing at opening ceremony in return for free flights and accommodation, £60 a day in spending money and complimentary tickets.

A group of 40 England fans are being paid by Qatar to attend the World Cup, with instructions to deliver positive messages about the experience, sing certain songs when requested and report critical social media posts.

Sources have confirmed that the group — which includes the England band leader John Hemmingham — will receive free flights and apartment accommodation, £60 a day in spending money loaded on to a Visa card and complimentary tickets after signing a “code of conduct”. They are all booked on flights that leave for Doha on November 17.

Another 40 supporters from Wales have also signed up to the Fan Leader Programme, along with fans from the 30 other competing countries as part of what supporters’ groups have described as a “sinister, distasteful” marketing exercise.

All those who have signed up for the scheme are guaranteed a ticket to the opening ceremony but they must stay in Qatar for at least two weeks. The idea, The Times has been told, is for them to sit in groups and sing at the appropriate times for the television cameras.

One document sent to fan leaders outlines the role they will be expected to play in the opening ceremony. It reads: “In celebration of the fans around the world, over the period of five minutes, fan chants from each nation will be played and you will be expected to stand up, sing the song/chant, wave your flags and represent your country.

“The camera will focus on each national fan group in turn. We will share with you the chant/song selected from your country to ensure you are familiar with it.” In bold red letters it adds: “Be ready in your shirt, flags and scarves to cheer and shout.”

Another document explains that fan leaders have to accept terms and conditions.

Last month the England Supporters Travel Club hosted a fans’ forum at Wembley Stadium and invited the Qatar Supreme Committee for Delivery and Legacy (SC) to attend, with Hemmingham, 59, appearing as a “UK fan leader” at the event.

FA staff were present and heard Hemmingham, who is the band’s trumpet player, tell the audience about the positive experience he enjoyed on a recent trip to Doha.

Detailed on the FA website is the fact that Hemmingham “shared his personal experiences from his visit to Qatar for the Lusail Super Cup”. “He was able to visit alongside other fan leaders of different participating nations, sharing their thoughts and giving feedback ahead of the Fifa World Cup,” the release read.

Hemmingham stated that “Qatar is very safe, there are lots of rules and no crime”. The report on the meeting said he “stayed in a great hotel and there was a kind, exciting reception for travelling fans”.

“There was lots of engagement with fans and Qataris were keen to actively make adjustments based on fan recommendations for the Fifa World Cup,” the report added. “JH [Hemmingham] attended a fixture at the World Cup final stadium — the Lusail Iconic Stadium — [where] there are great in-bowl sound systems.”

The Times has approached Hemmingham for comment but one insider sarcastically asked on Thursday night if the England band “might play Qatar’s national anthem during the tournament”.

In March last year the FA received a request from Qatar’s Supreme Committee, which is organising the tournament, for members of the official supporters’ club to join a fan engagement forum. Other sources claim the first contact was made with fan groups two years ago.

But it was only in September that those approached were asked to sign up to a “code of conduct” to guarantee their all-expenses-paid trip to the World Cup. “It all sounds a bit sinister and distasteful,” said one leading member of a fan group, who asked not to be named for fear of possible consequences when he arrives in Qatar.

It is understood that the scheme has not been endorsed by the Football Supporters’ Association or the FA.

Initially it seemed there was a request to simply disseminate information to other fans, with the incentive of a trip to Qatar in advance of the World Cup as well as complimentary flights, tickets and accommodation for the tournament itself.

The FA has said it only found out about the requirements of the scheme from international media reports.

“We were told this was an opportunity to engage with fans from all competing nations to ensure that the voice of supporters was clearly heard in the planning for the World Cup and that many international football associations were being approached,” a statement from the governing body read. “We have had no more involvement with the scheme, and no sight of the ‘code of conduct’ or any of the terms and conditions of involvement.”

A New York Times report said the Dutch broadcaster NOS quoted a Holland fan saying he had agreed to monitor the activity of other supporters from his country.

A board member from the American Outlaws, the biggest United States supporters’ group, agreed to take part, then helped to sign up fellow members and others. However, he told the New York Times that, having already accepted one free trip to Qatar, he was not going to be part of the scheme.

A France fan told the French newspaper Le Parisien he had declined the offer from Qatar. “Despite the appetising side of the dish, I preferred to stay true to my values,” Joseph Delage said.

Ahsan Mansoor, the fan engagement director for the 2022 World Cup who also attended the forum at Wembley last month, has insisted that “there is no obligation to promote or do anything”.

But sources in possession of the relevant documents have confirmed that there is indeed a code of conduct that had to be signed, with a request not to disparage the hosts and to “report any offensive, degrading or abusive comments” from other fans. Ideally they should supply screenshots.

“At best they’re volunteers for the World Cup and at worst they’re a mouthpiece for the Supreme Committee,” Ronan Evain, the executive director of Football Supporters Europe, said.

 

Some fans flown to Qatar in advance of the tournament were even invited to meet David Beckham, who is being paid millions to act as an ambassador for the hosts despite concerns about the country’s human rights record.

[narduch]

24 minutes ago, Shway said:

Lol wait…did I get the voices mixed up lol 😂.

 

You didn't notice less butchering of the English language?

[BearcatSA]

Some sketch comedy group or late night talk show intro could make a great satire out of this using John Mellencamp's song "Play Guitar" but instead call it "Shill Qatar!"

[Shway]

Lol this is joke. I completely digress.
I could never be a puppet. 

@RS

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

Ok, some context:

It is about 50 fans from each of the 31 guest nations.

So, including Lee Kormish, it is likely a max of 50 Canadians.

The trip (flights, accommodation and a ticket to that first Qatar vs Ecuador match ) are paid for by the Supreme Committee for delivery and legacy of Qatar. Nothing else. They cut the per diems and that country is expensive as fuck right now. No other match tickets.

Lee reached out to many hardcore Voyageurs that he knew. They then reached out to other hardcore Voyageurs that they knew to reach the 50 people.

Lee very graciously reached out to me through mutual Voyageur friends. I applied but it was past the official deadline and I was refused.

I read the contract (terms and conditions) of the trip. They had a non-disparagement clause in the contract towards Supreme Committee for delivery and legacy. However there was no non-disparagement clause towards the rest of the country. They strongly encouraged you to post your (postive) experiences on social media and also report any insulting posts to the Supreme Committee for delivery and legacy of Qatar. They aren't specifically telling people "You have to post X, Y or Z"

Many V's who are going have kept the coverage strictly to the game day experience and pictures of the stadiums without further comment. They are taking the paid trip, going to see the Canada games ( which they have to pay for ) and not saying anything good or bad while in Qatar. Silence/discretion yadayada...

Lee who is the organizer kinda has to go all out with the 😘🇶🇦.

The only people I have seen on Twitter that are going full 😘🇶🇦 besides Lee are that CanMNTONLY guy and Nef.

All the people I personally know who benefited from this paid trip are sharing pictures with friends on Facebook. Just pictures if you catch my drift.

 

Edited November 22, 2022 by Olympique_de_Marseille

[king1010]

They’re being asked to report negative posts to the “Supreme Committee” ? Yikes. 

[narduch]

11 minutes ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

Ok, some context:

It is about 50 fans from each of the 31 guest nations.

So, including Lee Kormish, it is likely a max of 50 Canadians.

The trip (flights, accommodation and a ticket to that first Qatar vs Ecuador match ) are paid for by the Supreme Committee for delivery and legacy of Qatar. Nothing else. They cut the per diems and that country is expensive as fuck right now. No other match tickets.

Lee reached out to many hardcore Voyageurs that he knew. They then reached out to other hardcore Voyageurs that they knew to reach the 50 people.

Lee very graciously reached out to me through mutual Voyageur friends. I applied but it was past the official deadline and I was refused.

I read the contract (terms and conditions) of the trip. They had a non-disparagement clause in the contract and strongly encouraged you to post your (postive) experience on social media and also report any insulting posts to the Supreme Committee for delivery and legacy of Qatar. They aren't specifically telling people "You have to post X, Y or Z"

Many V's who are going have kept the coverage strictly to the game day experience and pictures of the stadiums without further comment. They are taking the paid trip, going to see the Canada games ( which they have to pay for ) and not saying anything good or bad while in Qatar. Silence/discretion yadayada...

Lee who is the organizer kinda has to go all out with the 😘🇶🇦.

The only people I have seen on Twitter are that going full 😘🇶🇦 besides Lee are that CanMNTONLY guy and Nef.

All the people I personally know who benefited from this paid trip are sharing pictures with friends on Facebook. Just pictures if you catch my drift.

 

Sell outs