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How long until....MLS to CPL


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59 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

This thread being started is symptomatic of an ongoing antagonism that quite simply doesn't have to be there. I'd be just fine with following the fortunes of a London CanPL team and TFC. There's a niche and a market for both just as there is for the Knights and the Maple Leafs.

Antagonism?  It was merely someone who would like to see all the 3 Canadian MLS teams playing in the CPL asking if it would ever happen and wondering if others felt the same way.

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2 hours ago, Bison44 said:

Isnt this a straw man argument?? How many posters have actually said the MLS squads should switch over to the CPL in the near future?  The only change I can see happening quickly would be one of the MLS teams posting big losses and getting priced out of that league.  If MLS continues to grow and (lets day VAN) cant keep up and the ownership doesnt have such deep pockets I could see a sort of "self-regulation" happen.  Sell the MLS team, have a sort of rebrand in CPL, and instantly go from the brokest MLS team to the big fish in the CPL.  Other than that MLS isnt going anywhere.  

But I know that if a lot of guys didnt do a shit pile of work, CPL wouldnt be going and I for one would never have gotten to see pro soccer again (long time since the old Fury days).  And even with CPL opening up new/oldmarkets and new audiences there are still guys on here that are 10hr drives away from games. We cant even get MLS to square up roster rules and they werent going to expand into canada anymore now that they had cherry picked our juiciest markets.  So for the game to grow in the rest of the country we needed the CPL.    And its funny how the same guys who gloss over MLS douchbaggery sure can rip on all the things wrong with the CPL.

I think you will find that most of us who would rather keep the Canadian MLS teams in the MLS have no qualms about the CPL and of course think it’s great for the game in Canada that the CPL is here and hopefully can expand to other cities .  We are already seeing CPL players who have made the move to the MLS and hopefully see players that can even go straight to a decent League in Europe straight from the CPL. I think the CPL continuing to grow is only going to make the game stronger over time . However, until the CPL budgets reach MLS ones , having three Canadian teams in the bigger budget MLS is a good thing also for Canadian soccer . Moreover, we will always have the Canadian championship where MLS teams and CPL teams can play against each other . If one thinks that moving the MLS teams to the CPL is not a wise move , it does not mean that they are not fans of the CPL or don’t think the CPL is good for the growth of Canadian soccer of course it is .

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Socc-man, you make a lot of sense, and you are basically saying what almost all are saying, I dont think anyone said they wanted CDN MLS teams to go away next season, which is what the thread was about originally.  Its good NOW...or at least better now that CPL is here, so i am glad the status quo got shifted, but I dont hear anyone saying lets pull our MLS teams out ASAP.    

But you know that Mr Parrot continues to push the woe is us fairytale, we missed out on the chance of a lifetime, because we didnt go for a couple MLS reserve teams in D-2/3 American league 10 years ago, which would have poached markets number 4, 5, 6 (lets say Hamilton, Calgary, Winnipeg etc) and would have made the formation of the CPL completely impossible a few years later.   And we never would have seen an american league expand into Halifax...which has been a welcome surprise and success story for CPL.  And they still would have been under the control and whims of an american body, geared prioritize american player development, not canadian.  Not to mention that the 2/3 MLS reserve teams that did form in that time frame tanked, and if they survived they would have gone from USL to MLS next pro and been in the situation of not even bothering to sell tickets (what a viable economic model to strive for!!). Thinking that is something we should have done, or "repeating reserve teams" ad nauseum or having a slanted double standard when looking at CPL-MLS metrics..its those things that make most of us think our feathered friend isnt a real fan of CPL.  That stuff doesnt apply to you or prob any other poster on here.  

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I have been to a few Forge FC games and watch a lot on TV , and to be fair the on field product is not bad , CPL is a very young league and its only going to get better down the road. I have often found Canadian Sports fans as a whole to be very weird on how they view Canadian Sports they could care less about another Canadian city but if there is some American content all of a sudden they give a crap. 

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17 hours ago, Stanley said:

Antagonism?  It was merely someone who would like to see all the 3 Canadian MLS teams playing in the CPL asking if it would ever happen and wondering if others felt the same way.

Would anyone go onto an NHL, MLB or NBA forum and suggest that the Canadian franchise or franchises should play in a domestic Canadian league instead? They would probably simply be laughed at if they did. This only seems to even be an issue in a soccer context.

From what I can see people in the wider soccer community have no major issue with having a cross-border league if it means they can watch a player like Giovinco or Insigne live so York 9 and nativist slogans like By Canadians For Canadians failed to resonate to any significant extent in the GTA beyond this messageboard.

A lot of people inside the CSA bubble though whether that be players that didn't get the contract they craved, coaches and administrators etc who didn't get the job they wanted, or were let go from one they had, built up a serious antagonism where MLS was concerned between 2007 and 2018.

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You think if the Canadian NHL teams would play in a Canadian league with another 5 teams added it wouldn't succeed? I'd be more worried for the American league at that point.  

1 hour ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Would anyone go onto an NHL, MLB or NBA forum and suggest that the Canadian franchise or franchises should play in a domestic Canadian league instead? They would probably simply be laughed at if they did. 

 Check the revenues the CDN team brings the the NHL now.

Edited by MtlMario
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3 minutes ago, MtlMario said:

You think if the Canadian NHL teams would play in a Canadian league with another 5 teams added it wouldn't succeed?  ...

No, I'm sure it would succeed so why is nobody campaigning for that to happen? If hockey, which we are always told is at the very core of Canadian identity can have a cross-border league without it being viewed as some sort of existential threat to Canadian nationhood, why is doing something cross-border for similar pragmatic reasons to what happened in the early years of the NHL even an issue in a soccer context?

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1 hour ago, MtlMario said:

You think if the Canadian NHL teams would play in a Canadian league with another 5 teams added it wouldn't succeed? I'd be more worried for the American league at that point.  

 Check the revenues the CDN team brings the the NHL now.

People got pretty sick of seeing the same Canadian teams over and over during the last NHL season when the border was closed.  It's good to have lots of teams to keep it fresh during a long season.  So, I don't think that splintering the Canadian NHL teams into their own league would just keep generating the same amount of revenue.  Likewise, I hope the CPL can keep expanding otherwise it can go stale for the fans once the novelty wears off.

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The NHL was founded in Montreal in 1917 and WAS a Canadian league. Then we invited US teams and they took over the league over time with Bettman moving HQ to NY.

The North division during COVID was a tremendous success and attracted even people who weren't following the product as much as before. Of course, Bettman shut the door at maintaining this afterwards.

Canadians watching their own IS a huge draw. Even comparing MLS TV numbers... the strongest ratings are when we play against one another. Look at the CFL attendance and TV ratings.

CPL lacks mainstream exposure, just like with MLS clubs, this will take time.

38 minutes ago, rkomar said:

People got pretty sick of seeing the same Canadian teams over and over during the last NHL season when the border was closed.  It's good to have lots of teams to keep it fresh during a long season.  So, I don't think that splintering the Canadian NHL teams into their own league would just keep generating the same amount of revenue.  

NHL strongest ratings are when Canadian teams are playing one another. Also, close to a third of revenues of the league are generated by the Canadian clubs who helps subsidized failed ventures in the middle of the desert.

I'll always remember that year when there was virtually no Canadian teams in the playoffs and Bettman legit asks Canadian fans to keep watching to cheer for Canadian players... Ratings takes a dive when Canadian clubs are eliminated

Edited by Ansem
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4 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Would anyone go onto an NHL, MLB or NBA forum and suggest that the Canadian franchise or franchises should play in a domestic Canadian league instead? They would probably simply be laughed at if they did. This only seems to even be an issue in a soccer context.

The forum that this post was made in is the Canadian Premier League forum.  For fans of the Canadian Premier League.  Not the MLS forum.

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3 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

No, I'm sure it would succeed so why is nobody campaigning for that to happen? If hockey, which we are always told is at the very core of Canadian identity can have a cross-border league without it being viewed as some sort of existential threat to Canadian nationhood, why is doing something cross-border for similar pragmatic reasons to what happened in the early years of the NHL even an issue in a soccer context?

I’ve actually been calling for a Canadian league that has all the NHL Canadian teams in it. For the hockey nation that we are, there’s no reason why this isn’t the case - money isn’t one.

I also understand there’s no need for change as well because we are the USA basketball of hockey. 50% of the league is Canadians. 

I think a lot of markets are starved because there’s a cap in the league. No reason why Hamilton doesn’t have a team for instance (other than the leafs stronghold on the area rights)

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52 minutes ago, Stanley said:

The forum that this post was made in is the Canadian Premier League forum.  For fans of the Canadian Premier League.  Not the MLS forum.

Interesting way to read my post. This is actually a CMNT forum first and foremost, which is why there are both CanPL and MLS subforums. 

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9 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Interesting way to read my post. This is actually a CMNT forum first and foremost, which is why there are both CanPL and MLS subforums. 

Yet when we bring up the topic of low attendance in MLS - you kindly tell us to go post in the MLS section...

Speaking of which - Mtl vs Van... after ~15 years of MLS in Canada, with mainstream media, cable TV and around 10 years of MLS in both those cities.

#highest_quality_available argument falls flat if you understand the tweet.

Edited by Ansem
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25 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Interesting way to read my post. This is actually a CMNT forum first and foremost, which is why there are both CanPL and MLS subforums. 

Which is why the OP made his post in the CPL subforum.  

Edited by Stanley
typo
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1 hour ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Scintillating stuff. If you went back 20 years to the old network54 days this was always a forum for the totality of Canadian soccer not any specific league or club. 

I was back there in those network 54 days. Under a different name, one which you would remember well.

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15 hours ago, MtlMario said:

You think if the Canadian NHL teams would play in a Canadian league with another 5 teams added it wouldn't succeed? I'd be more worried for the American league at that point.  

 Check the revenues the CDN team brings the the NHL now.

If I am not mistaken The Canadian Teams are 37% of total revenue for the NHL. 

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8 hours ago, Ansem said:

Yet when we bring up the topic of low attendance in MLS - you kindly tell us to go post in the MLS section...

Speaking of which - Mtl vs Van... after ~15 years of MLS in Canada, with mainstream media, cable TV and around 10 years of MLS in both those cities.

#highest_quality_available argument falls flat if you understand the tweet.

Both teams have been horribly mismanaged in recent years, for very different reasons. So it’s no surprise that attendance at Stade Saputo was poor today.

Which brings up the obvious question: Are these the ownership groups people are clamouring for to join the CPL?

If they can’t sell the highest available quality then why would they succeed at the CPL level?

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17 minutes ago, RS said:

Both teams have been horribly mismanaged in recent years, for very different reasons. So it’s no surprise that attendance at Stade Saputo was poor today.

Which brings up the obvious question: Are these the ownership groups people are clamouring for to join the CPL?

If they can’t sell the highest available quality then why would they succeed at the CPL level?

Excellent question

The topic has resolved around MLS ownership leaving for CPL.

I'm of the opinion that if they don't, the 3 major areas are big enough to attract major investors. A major French club for Montreal? Major established club or very rich ownership for Vancouver? I doubt MLSE would abandon their sport monopoly in Toronto.

Personally, I'm indifferent to Vancouver ownership with the past scandal among other things and Saputo who's heart is in Serie A. All I care about is CPL having Canada to itself long term...like virtually everyone else in the world minus outliers. 

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Not sure if anyone has paid attention to the MLS IS BACK commercial.  Not 1 of the 3 MLS Canadian teams are featured. Just something I noticed. MLS does not need any of the Canadian squads anymore. I can gaurantee they will not be missed.

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I dont know if you paid attention, they clearly show Achara waving to the crowd.  Or maybe we are talking about different commercials.  I Imagine it was tough getting a clip from everyone of the 60 teams in MLS into that 30sec.  

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41 minutes ago, ATM said:

Not sure if anyone has paid attention to the MLS IS BACK commercial.  Not 1 of the 3 MLS Canadian teams are featured. Just something I noticed. MLS does not need any of the Canadian squads anymore. I can gaurantee they will not be missed.

 

23 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

I dont know if you paid attention, they clearly show Achara waving to the crowd.  Or maybe we are talking about different commercials.  I Imagine it was tough getting a clip from everyone of the 60 teams in MLS into that 30sec.  

And who or what would you promote from this abomination of a Vancouver team right now?

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On 4/24/2022 at 7:27 PM, Bison44 said:

I dont know if you paid attention, they clearly show Achara waving to the crowd.  Or maybe we are talking about different commercials.  I Imagine it was tough getting a clip from everyone of the 60 teams in MLS into that 30sec.  

At the rate of MLS is expanding with St. Louis and Las Vegas to join next we will be at 60......hahahaha

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I can see the crazy annoying unbalanced league format already:

34 games:
- teams play their conference opponents twice for 28 games home and away
- teams play 6 random cross conference opponents. 

Don’t you just love it.

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8 hours ago, Shway said:

I can see the crazy annoying unbalanced league format already:

34 games:
- teams play their conference opponents twice for 28 games home and away
- teams play 6 random cross conference opponents. 

Don’t you just love it.

I don't hate it beyond it's too many games for the depth.

I assume next year with 28 games and nine teams we'll have three games each (2 home, 1 away or 2 away, 1 home), plus an additional four which will take up the extra home/away games. I wouldn't mind a balanced schedule but it's not realistic - the other sports leagues seem to handle the unbalanced schedules fine?

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