League 1 Alberta/Prairies

[Watchmen]

Tommy Wheeldon Jr interview at the 51:03 mark. Towards the end, they talk about the L1s in Canada, and Wheeldon references that there's something in the works in Alberta. Foothills involved. Sounds like more details towards the end of the year.

https://aftn.ca/episode-504-the-aftn-soccer-show/

Edited March 31, 2022 by Watchmen

[Obinna]

I wanted to find information on this so I entered "League 1 Alberta" in a search engine and arrived right back here

Encouraged to hear there's something in the works. It's the most obvious next step with League 1 now in Ontario, Quebec and BC.

Considering BC launched with 6 teams, I am thinking they'll go with a similar number in Alberta, since both provinces are similar in terms of population. 

3 teams in Calgary and 3 in Edmonton seems like a good start:

• Foothills (Calgary)
• Cavalry U-20 (Calgary)
• FC Edmonton U-20 (Edmonton)
• 3 new clubs?
  • This is where I am conflicted/interested.
    • Will they create 3 brand new clubs like they've done in BC with Altitude FC, Unity FC and Rivers FC?
    • Will they "promote" some existing AMSL clubs, such as Edmonton Scottish, Calgary Callies, etc.?
    • While I prefer the latter for sentimental reasons (I like the patchwork of logos and histories of L1O clubs, for instance), I think building clubs from scratch adds another layer to the pyramid in a way that "promoting" teams from am to pro-am does not. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

On 4/12/2022 at 10:35 PM, Obinna said:

I wanted to find information on this so I entered "League 1 Alberta" in a search engine and arrived right back here

Encouraged to hear there's something in the works. It's the most obvious next step with League 1 now in Ontario, Quebec and BC.

Considering BC launched with 6 teams, I am thinking they'll go with a similar number in Alberta, since both provinces are similar in terms of population. 

3 teams in Calgary and 3 in Edmonton seems like a good start:

• Foothills (Calgary)
• Cavalry U-20 (Calgary)
• FC Edmonton U-20 (Edmonton)
• 3 new clubs?
  • This is where I am conflicted/interested.
    • Will they create 3 brand new clubs like they've done in BC with Altitude FC, Unity FC and Rivers FC?
    • Will they "promote" some existing AMSL clubs, such as Edmonton Scottish, Calgary Callies, etc.?
    • While I prefer the latter for sentimental reasons (I like the patchwork of logos and histories of L1O clubs, for instance), I think building clubs from scratch adds another layer to the pyramid in a way that "promoting" teams from am to pro-am does not. 

@ObinnaThats a good breakdown just missing that in BC they've gone with some university affiliated clubs. Unity is in Langley and is tied to Trinity Western University, and Rivers is born from Thompson Rivers University in Kamloops. Then Varsity at UBC. Sometimes coached by the related university coaching team. 

So just to pick up on that model: what Alberta schools, U-Sports or lower division, could support/inspire a team? 

[Obinna]

11 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

@ObinnaThats a good breakdown just missing that in BC they've gone with some university affiliated clubs. Unity is in Langley and is tied to Trinity Western University, and Rivers is born from Thompson Rivers University in Kamloops. Then Varsity at UBC. Sometimes coached by the related university coaching team. 

So just to pick up on that model: what Alberta schools, U-Sports or lower division, could support/inspire a team? 

Thanks for the reminder on the BC clubs being tied to university programs. 

In Alberta, the two obvious ones are:

• Edmonton Green & Gold
  • Currently play in AMSL
  • They are a spinoff from the U of A Golden Bears
• Calgary Dinos
  • Currently play in AMSL
  • They are a spinoff from the U of C Dinos

They would probably be the best bets if we were to assume L1A follows L1BC's lead.

My knee jerk reaction was to mention Calgary Callies and Edmonton Scottish, because they are historically the two most successful am teams in Alberta, but if I were to generalize I would say those guys are older and just playing for the love of the game, so they're headed in the opposite direction. Off the top of my head, Paul Hamilton and Sam Lam are examples I think of.

On the other hand, the clubs tied to the universities are generally younger so the guys are likely more hungry to make a go of it and see how far they can push themselves. Easton Ongaro for example played with Edmonton Green & Gold as a teenager, before he signed with the Eddies. 

I do wonder if they'd want to include the Lethbrige AMSL team (I believe they are similarly tied to U of L), because it would fit the model and it would add another market. The Edmonton-Lethbridge trip wouldn't be anymore cumbersome than Kamloops to Victoria, plus it's a trip the AMSL teams already take. The Lethbrige team, from what I can tell anyways, are usually at the bottom of the standings every year, so I wonder if that matters or not. 

Another wildcard for Edmonton Scottish jumping up is that ex-FC Edmonton coach Jeff Paulis is coaching them at the moment. That may be a non-factor, but you never know. 

 

[An Observer]

Wasn’t Edmonton Scottish one of the clubs rumoured to be involved in the D2 start up league? If so, I would have thought this level would be appropriate for them unless they are holding out for that

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

It looks like League One Canada made some changes to cater to a lot of what the would be D2 participants wanted. Hopefully a League One Alberta could also include Saskatchewan and Manitoba clubs through playing out rights and would effectively wind up as League One Prairies. Otherwise how does this do anything that the existing AMSL wasn't already doing?

[Unnamed Trialist]

On 4/16/2022 at 9:27 AM, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

It looks like League One Canada made some changes to cater to a lot of what the would be D2 participants wanted. Hopefully a League One Alberta could also include Saskatchewan and Manitoba clubs through playing out rights and would effectively wind up as League One Prairies. Otherwise how does this do anything that the existing AMSL wasn't already doing?

That precise argument was already made about L1BC, relative to not doing anything substantially more than the previous amateur leagues. 

We also know that we are not waving a wand and creating a higher level of play, it may be marginal.

Apart from Voyageurs Cup qualification, and some sanctioning minimums, plus the budget criteria that makes this pro-am (which are what again), the L1s are just small steps. Until they, or individual clubs participating, show the ambition to be more than that.

[Watchmen]

On 4/22/2022 at 8:31 AM, Unnamed Trialist said:

That precise argument was already made about L1BC, relative to not doing anything substantially more than the previous amateur leagues. 

We also know that we are not waving a wand and creating a higher level of play, it may be marginal.

Apart from Voyageurs Cup qualification, and some sanctioning minimums, plus the budget criteria that makes this pro-am (which are what again), the L1s are just small steps. Until they, or individual clubs participating, show the ambition to be more than that.

I don't disagree with any of this, but I would suggest that the formation of and clubs joining the leagues is a step in the right direction and showing more ambition that simply staying with the "status quo". 

[ted]

27 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

I don't disagree with any of this, but I would suggest that the formation of and clubs joining the leagues is a step in the right direction and showing more ambition that simply staying with the "status quo". 

Yep. The difference is that the L1's are designed to grow and evolve into more. Ambition is built into the program and will eventually bear fruit.

[dnina10]

I am surprised no one has mentioned it yet, but this was from the Calgary Foothills' Twitter account earlier today.

 

https://twitter.com/FoothillsFCU23/status/1522274938215927808?s=20&t=4qM9WcMWgcVaQJnkmyIK_A

[Cblake]

5 minutes ago, dnina10 said:

I am surprised no one has mentioned it yet, but this was from the Calgary Foothills' Twitter account earlier today.

 

https://twitter.com/FoothillsFCU23/status/1522274938215927808?s=20&t=4qM9WcMWgcVaQJnkmyIK_A

Central League One, wonder if you could get at least six teams in each province for an 18 + team league to keep a handle on travel. Have most of the regular season play within your own division if not all?

[Kent]

I had seen it on my phone and was just looking it up again to post here. Thanks for posting dnina.

From the link inside the tweet (emphasis is mine)...

The Central League 1 is a newly incorporated entity designed with a vision to develop a
coast-to-coast Canadian league for Pro-Am soccer, with initial founding members across the
prairies (as listed below). The vision of this league to fill a gap in Central Canada between
League1 British Columbia and Ontario League 1, providing a pathway to pro for Central Canada.
For 2022, this will be an 8-12 game exhibition series of the Central Clubs. The provincial bodies
and clubs will be working together to have a fully-fledged Central League1 ready for the 2023
season. This will require continued efforts between both the provincial governing bodies and
clubs.

[dnina10]

12 minutes ago, Cblake said:

Central League One, wonder if you could get at least six teams in each province for an 18 + team league to keep a handle on travel. Have most of the regular season play within your own division if not all?

I doubt there will be so many teams from SK and MB. I could foresee something like 12 teams, maybe half of them from AB, 2-3 from SK, and 3-4 from MB. Probably an Alberta division and a division for the other two provinces. Probably something like you play the teams in your division home and away and play the other teams once. Top two in each division makes the playoffs, something like that. Maybe 14-16 teams could happen, but again I'd expect to see the majority of the teams hail from AB

[rydermike]

Surprised FC Manitoba is in that considering they're is USL2 this season

Edit: Just realized USL2 ends mid July. This could be after that

Edited May 6, 2022 by rydermike

[Raven]

This could give an opportunity for a place in Can soccer for the Thunder Bay Chill. 
 

[rydermike]

I remember a few months ago when that whole D2 league was rumoured, BTB Academy was supposedly making their team name Edmonton City SC for that. Not too important now I guess, although I guess as we get closer, we could see the name Edmonton City replace it

[EnigMattic1]

On 5/6/2022 at 11:38 PM, rydermike said:

Surprised FC Manitoba is in that considering they're is USL2 this season

Edit: Just realized USL2 ends mid July. This could be after that

Do you think that FC Manitoba will eventually return to play in Canada or are they just going to appear in the exhibition series? 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

This is clearly about setting the stage for a Central League 1 next season in place of PDL but they probably want/need more than 4 teams for that. Definitely looks like L1O/L1BC was able to head the would be D2 off at the pass by making some changes and getting most of the groups involved on board. Tigers FC in BC being the obvious exception on that involvement angle and Joe Belan's SkSSS seems to have fallen by the wayside as well but think that was already the case last summer.

Edited May 9, 2022 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Unnamed Trialist]

The Chill are in a division with an 11 hour drive to one rival, Peoria. Des Moines is over 9 away. Tough. 

Mind you, Winnipeg is almost 8 hrs away and any place further in Canada would be even further than their most distant rival in USL2. So their division makes sense for them with the Minnesota-Iowa

There is probably no decent solution for the Chill.

Mind you, Winnipeg to Edmonton is longer than any of those trips too, so you either find a sponsor to fly, or really are not in a position to be imagining a viable L1 for all the Prairies. Maybe it has to be Alberta separately, get up to 6-8 teams.

Comparing, the furthest trip as we stand in L1BC is Victoria, bus to catch a ferry, then just under 4 hours more to Kamloops, but you still could be under 7 hours in total. And the ferry is your "stop", it's a meal and players walking about, totally different. If Nanaimo comes in, and more teams in the interior, then you have a viable L1 in terms of cost of travel.

[An Observer]

12 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

The Chill are in a division with an 11 hour drive to one rival, Peoria. Des Moines is over 9 away. Tough. 

Mind you, Winnipeg is almost 8 hrs away and any place further in Canada would be even further than their most distant rival in USL2. So their division makes sense for them with the Minnesota-Iowa

There is probably no decent solution for the Chill.

Mind you, Winnipeg to Edmonton is longer than any of those trips too, so you either find a sponsor to fly, or really are not in a position to be imagining a viable L1 for all the Prairies. Maybe it has to be Alberta separately, get up to 6-8 teams.

Comparing, the furthest trip as we stand in L1BC is Victoria, bus to catch a ferry, then just under 4 hours more to Kamloops, but you still could be under 7 hours in total. And the ferry is your "stop", it's a meal and players walking about, totally different. If Nanaimo comes in, and more teams in the interior, then you have a viable L1 in terms of cost of travel.

What about the WHL?  They cover from BC to Manitoba (and parts south into the Pacific Northwest).  How do they do it (asking, not rhetorical)? Would that possibly work for League 1 Prairies or do you need larger attendances to pay the travel or younger players who don't work and can take the log bus travel away?

 

 

[Watchmen]

1 hour ago, An Observer said:

What about the WHL?  They cover from BC to Manitoba (and parts south into the Pacific Northwest).  How do they do it (asking, not rhetorical)? Would that possibly work for League 1 Prairies or do you need larger attendances to pay the travel or younger players who don't work and can take the log bus travel away?

 

 

A looooooot of bus travel. And in recent years (pre-pandemic) they had reduced the number of games between the Eastern (Alberta/Saskatchewan/Manitoba) conference and the Western (BC/Washington/Oregon). And it's an extended trip when they do, about two weeks of games.

[Ansem]

I think an Alberta League 1 makes sense.

A Thunder Bay-Manitoba-Saskatchewan Central league 1 could work with some creative scheduling to minimized flying back and forth to and from Saskatchewan.

Just thinking about the Toronto rugby clubs who was competing in the English system, they could play the bulk of their road game in Saskatchewan while stayong there for a while and those clubs could play their away games in Thunder Bay in bulk as well. (Creative scheduling)

They could hit the road back and forth to and from Winnipeg and other Manitoba cities.

If they could sponsors to help with the travel costs, that would go a long way. Maybe that's something CSB could help with too.

Flights

Thunder Bay/Regina (with sponsors, buying in bulk/reserving far in advance on some type of corporate deal, these costs could already go down.) 

If you think about it, that's extra business the carrier didn’t have previously - a discount is still worth their while I'd think.

I think we should find a way to bring them in our pyramid and it seems doable to me

Edited May 11, 2022 by Ansem

[Kingston]

Regardless of exactly which teams enter and what sort of creative scheduling makes it work, an L1C would be a great step.  (Or maybe L1MASK for Manitoba, Alberta, and Saskatchewan?  Just call it "The Mask".)

At that point, we have D3 covering something like 90% of the population and we'd be just an Atlantic league away from getting as close to 100% as we're likely to get.

[EnigMattic1]

It's a long shot, has anyone got/seen a fixture list for the Central League1 Exhibition Series?

[Obinna]

I am somewhat disappointed at the news of a Central league 1. I was hoping Alberta would go it alone, just as BC, Ontario and Quebec have done. Central league 1 makes as much sense as an Eastern Canada league 1 combining Quebec with the Maritimes. The same arguments about the WHL can be made about the Q, yet Quebec has no teams from the Maritimes, at least not yet. My guess is they won't for the foreseeable future.

Clearly this is the direction they want to go, so I hope it is successful, I am just concerned about the distances. Calgary to Winnipeg isn't close enough for a semi-pro league where half the guys are playing to keep the dream alive, and few (maybe none) are playing for a living.

This gets worse if you have to travel from Calgary to Thunder Bay. That's a bit of a joke, really.

The question is, and has always been, what to do about Sask-toba. Too populous to ignore, but not populous enough to go it alone.  Alberta could go it alone, but I don't know if Sask-toba can. You don't see it at the top amateur level and League 1 is a marginal step up from that. Therefore, they want to bundle it with Alberta and hope it's viable.

The saving grace may be to do an Alberta division and a Sask-toba division, then have the teams cross over for the playoffs. At that point though why not do two different leagues?

Will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

I don't know how many teams they are targeting, but I figured an Alberta League 1 would have 3 Calgary teams, 3 Edmonton teams, and 2 teams from Red deer and Lethbridge respectively to make an 8 team league to start. Maybe you can throw the Cavalry and FCE reserve teams in to reach 10. 

Now with a "Central" concept, I would expect Regina, Saskatoon, maybe a Saskatoon CPL reserve side, then 2 clubs out of Winnipeg plus a Valour reserve side. That brings you to 16. 

Sorry Thunder Bay, but you're too far away. I would be shocked if they pushed that far east, but then again I never thought Sask and Manitoba were even on the table, so that shows how much I know

Edited June 28, 2022 by Obinna