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CF Montreal - 2022 Season Thread


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9 hours ago, narduch said:

Montreal still not sold on Next Pro.

 

 

The article has some juicy quotes from Renard about how they view their youth development & CPL players:

 

“My choice (no MLSNP) also comes from the fact that I know that we don't have 25-30 players (u23 team) ready to make the first team. There are five or six that we can lend in PLSQ. With this fact, to move. That's what people forget. Because with the MLS Next Pro, people would stay here, in Montreal. 

“The Sean Rea of now is not the Sean Rea of last year, underlines Renard, a statement that he also attaches to the other two (Yao & Sirois). He was asked to be more decisive, with more assists and more goals. 

“Players like that, who are from Montreal, still with mom and dad, still in the little cocoon, they become men when they go there. Having to manage to eat alone, being alone in the evening, without the family. You become another person. 

We knew the qualities of Woobens, assures Renard. I will even tell the truth: I participated in trying to find a club for him. He was coming back from two fairly serious injuries and deserved to play. Is he going to come back to us one day? Maybe. We'll see. Will he continue in another MLS club? We keep the rights of the player. […] But not everyone can play with us either. 

 

Edited by red card
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22 hours ago, narduch said:

Montreal still not sold on Next Pro.

 

 

Still not sold on MLS Next Pro?   Or is it that they cant afford it?   That's just PR to mask the fact that CFM have revenue challenges that restrict their ability to operate at the same level as their rivals.    If you look at the staff that makes up CFM's front office (i.e.: this info is what i get from Transfermrk) you will realize that they are running an absolute barebones operation.  Three people!,  that's NOT close what other MLS teams have and should have.    They have no scout,  no medical department, No public relations,  no marketing etc etc.  this looks more like a CPL level operation than MLS so using the same logic, that's akin to saying 

image.png.96b0e29969ac3f9bd30de7fc2d430aec.png

As someone who has followed and been a fan of the Expos from their early years,  to the 80-90's,  to sale of the club, to the relocation of club;  it is incredible how i can see parallels in the history and plight of the two clubs.    We used to hear the same kind of stuff about the expos, " why do we need two AA farm clubs when one can suffice".  With the Expos, revenue challenges led to cuts and reduction in areas that barely get noticed and then collectively,  this all adds up to problems in (not only retaining talent) but other operational areas.   They hired front office management based on what they can afford rather than "best available".  Eventually,  the revenue challenges (caused by sub par attendance) became unsupportable for the owner(s),  then the owner(s) would seek a buyer,  Then No local buyer would emerge because of the revenue challenges and because there aren't many investors in Quebec with than kind of capital,  then foreign n=buys would be the only option,  Then the foreign buyer emerges,   the foreign buyer tries to make a go of it but then realizes why do I have to lose my shirt when I can make money by moving elsewhere... and on and on. 

image.png

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21 minutes ago, Free kick said:

Still not sold on MLS Next Pro?   Or is it that they cant afford it?   That's just PR to mask the fact that CFM have revenue challenges that restrict their ability to operate at the same level as their rivals.    If you look at the staff that makes up CFM's front office (i.e.: this info is what i get from Transfermrk) you will realize that they are running an absolute barebones operation.  Three people!,  that's NOT close what other MLS teams have and should have.    They have no scout,  no medical department, No public relations,  no marketing etc etc.  this looks more like a CPL level operation than MLS so using the same logic, that's akin to saying 

image.png.96b0e29969ac3f9bd30de7fc2d430aec.png

As someone who has followed and been a fan of the Expos from their early years,  to the 80-90's,  to sale of the club, to the relocation of club;  it is incredible how i can see parallels in the history and plight of the two clubs.    We used to hear the same kind of stuff about the expos, " why do we need two AA farm clubs when one can suffice".  With the Expos, revenue challenges led to cuts and reduction in areas that barely get noticed and then collectively,  this all adds up to problems in (not only retaining talent) but other operational areas.   They hired front office management based on what they can afford rather than "best available".  Eventually,  the revenue challenges (caused by sub par attendance) became unsupportable for the owner(s),  then the owner(s) would seek a buyer,  Then No local buyer would emerge because of the revenue challenges and because there aren't many investors in Quebec with than kind of capital,  then foreign n=buys would be the only option,  Then the foreign buyer emerges,   the foreign buyer tries to make a go of it but then realizes why do I have to lose my shirt when I can make money by moving elsewhere... and on and on. 

image.png

I mean, nobody can know for sure from the outside of course, but Renard's belief in the CPL as a better option, at least, seem rather sincere and is something he brought up when I'd argue he wouldn't need to. More broadly though, I'd argue that the broader situation is pretty different from the Expos. An MLS team is way cheaper then an MLB team (so it is way more sustainable as a wealthy investor's hobby and it doesn't need nearly as large a revenue stream to be profitable in the first place) and unlike Baseball the fanbase isn't suffering among the younger generations (yes, it was less apparent back then but it was already an issue, especially in Canada) Moreover, CF Montreal is only part of Saputo's wider investment in Soccer...

Furthermore, I do also think transfermarket might be streamlining things a bit too much on that one, as the lists on Montreal's own website for their front office and technical staff are significantly longer:

https://en.cfmontreal.com/club/front-office

https://en.cfmontreal.com/club/technical-team

Edited by phil03
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33 minutes ago, Free kick said:

Still not sold on MLS Next Pro?   Or is it that they cant afford it?   That's just PR to mask the fact that CFM have revenue challenges that restrict their ability to operate at the same level as their rivals.    If you look at the staff that makes up CFM's front office (i.e.: this info is what i get from Transfermrk) you will realize that they are running an absolute barebones operation.  Three people!,  that's NOT close what other MLS teams have and should have.    They have no scout,  no medical department, No public relations,  no marketing etc etc.  this looks more like a CPL level operation than MLS so using the same logic, that's akin to saying 

image.png.96b0e29969ac3f9bd30de7fc2d430aec.png

As someone who has followed and been a fan of the Expos from their early years,  to the 80-90's,  to sale of the club, to the relocation of club;  it is incredible how i can see parallels in the history and plight of the two clubs.    We used to hear the same kind of stuff about the expos, " why do we need two AA farm clubs when one can suffice".  With the Expos, revenue challenges led to cuts and reduction in areas that barely get noticed and then collectively,  this all adds up to problems in (not only retaining talent) but other operational areas.   They hired front office management based on what they can afford rather than "best available".  Eventually,  the revenue challenges (caused by sub par attendance) became unsupportable for the owner(s),  then the owner(s) would seek a buyer,  Then No local buyer would emerge because of the revenue challenges and because there aren't many investors in Quebec with than kind of capital,  then foreign n=buys would be the only option,  Then the foreign buyer emerges,   the foreign buyer tries to make a go of it but then realizes why do I have to lose my shirt when I can make money by moving elsewhere... and on and on. 

image.png

And yet, look at the results and the players they're holding and bringing along.  I'd rather be in their situation than either of their "rivals" if we're talking Canadian MLS teams.

They're gonna make a lot of cash on players in the near future, probably more than a proper marketing team would.

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25 minutes ago, Free kick said:

Still not sold on MLS Next Pro?   Or is it that they cant afford it?   That's just PR to mask the fact that CFM have revenue challenges that restrict their ability to operate at the same level as their rivals.    If you look at the staff that makes up CFM's front office (i.e.: this info is what i get from Transfermrk) you will realize that they are running an absolute barebones operation.  Three people!,  that's NOT close what other MLS teams have and should have.    They have no scout,  no medical department, No public relations,  no marketing etc etc.  this looks more like a CPL level operation than MLS so using the same logic, that's akin to saying 

image.png.96b0e29969ac3f9bd30de7fc2d430aec.png

As someone who has followed and been a fan of the Expos from their early years,  to the 80-90's,  to sale of the club, to the relocation of club;  it is incredible how i can see parallels in the history and plight of the two clubs.    We used to hear the same kind of stuff about the expos, " why do we need two AA farm clubs when one can suffice".  With the Expos, revenue challenges led to cuts and reduction in areas that barely get noticed and then collectively,  this all adds up to problems in (not only retaining talent) but other operational areas.   They hired front office management based on what they can afford rather than "best available".  Eventually,  the revenue challenges (caused by sub par attendance) became unsupportable for the owner(s),  then the owner(s) would seek a buyer,  Then No local buyer would emerge because of the revenue challenges and because there aren't many investors in Quebec with than kind of capital,  then foreign n=buys would be the only option,  Then the foreign buyer emerges,   the foreign buyer tries to make a go of it but then realizes why do I have to lose my shirt when I can make money by moving elsewhere... and on and on. 

image.png

Transfermarket is a great site but its not gospel. There are tons of errors and ommisions. My general rule is the further you are from the biggest leagues the less reliable it is. People need to learn this fact.

I doubt Montreal staff is that small.

I personally don't think MLS Next Pro will last more than 5 years, based simply on the fact that MLS keeps changing its reserve structures.

I doubt Montreal is the only team balking at the costs for Next Pro. DC United still haven't joined either. 

Hard to argue with the path Montreal has chosen. They sit 3rd in the East and basically all the pundits wrote them off as a non playoff team in their pre season projections

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^^^by way of a fact check the reason DC United's reserve team can't easily leave USL next season has been reported to be that Loudon United's lease states the team has to play in a D2 sanctioned league.

Also worth noting that from next season most MLS teams will benefit greatly financially from the new Apple TV media rights deal compared to what was happening previously making it easier for them to fund a Next Pro operation. CFM are a possible exception because they previously have had an unusually lucrative regional French language deal.

 

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Ya TVA Sports was pissed they weren't allowed to bid on the rights.

Just because you have a new TV deal doesn't mean you will want to continue burning money on a reserve league if there are no real fruitful results. Of course that will take years to see.

Remember MLS was selling Next Pro as a viable pro league alternative to USL. So far it looks like a reserve league.

Edited by narduch
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48 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

 

Also worth noting that from next season most MLS teams will benefit greatly financially from the new Apple TV media rights deal compared to what was happening previously making it easier for them to fund a Next Pro operation. CFM are a possible exception because they previously have had an unusually lucrative regional French language deal.

 

It isn't worth noting. 

As discussed, particularly in the OneSoccer thread, when the Apple deal was announced, financially it isn't a game changer or "benefit greatly" from the deal. It's another step to maybe a "benefit greatly" deal post 2026.

Litany of reasons include new CBA includes sharing Apple deal revenues with players, start up + on going production costs could be up to US$80 million/yr, loss of significant local tv money for about 7-8 clubs (CFM deal was $5 million/yr), some loss of local sponsors, future expansion will dilute monies per team and/or the eventual end of the spigot of expansion fees won't be offset by Apple deal. 

Fans also want the Apple money spent first on 1st team players and second on academies. MLSNP isn't on their wish list.

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We all know Montreal is a small market for any sports except hockey. I truly hoped the attendance would be better with time but for now, we rely on the academy, good trades and value players. Now and then Saputo can reach into hid pockets and bring a Piatti, Di Vaio, Drogba or a Nesta.

 

As for a reserve team, we don't really need a top U23 team because after the U18, kids need to play in a bigger spot than reserve and play competitive games.

I'm all for loaning players into the CPL and use the PLSQ for the U23.

Just next year, Yao, Sirois and Rea should be in the team and fill the void of some departures.

Our business model is not and we cannot compare ourselves with LAFC.

There's nothing wrong with being a smaller club and enjoying this season where we are #2 or #3 in the East.

Renard is a Gem and as long as we have him, we are a competitive team.

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4 hours ago, red card said:

It isn't worth noting. 

As discussed, particularly in the OneSoccer thread, when the Apple deal was announced, financially it isn't a game changer or "benefit greatly" from the deal. It's another step to maybe a "benefit greatly" deal post 2026.

Litany of reasons include new CBA includes sharing Apple deal revenues with players, start up + on going production costs could be up to US$80 million/yr, loss of significant local tv money for about 7-8 clubs (CFM deal was $5 million/yr), some loss of local sponsors, future expansion will dilute monies per team and/or the eventual end of the spigot of expansion fees won't be offset by Apple deal. 

Fans also want the Apple money spent first on 1st team players and second on academies. MLSNP isn't on their wish list.

Speaking of Apple TV, has it been determined yet whether other broadcasters (ie TSN) will be able to bid on local rights for MLS teams?  That is, will, say, TSN be able to broadcast Whitecaps games in BC and Toronto games in Ontario?   Or will the games only be on Apple and if you want to watch them you'll have to subscribe to Apple?

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