Window 4 (Jan 2022) Player pool discussion

[dyslexic nam]

It is premature to kick off a whole big window thread discussing games and tactics, but I thought it might be useful to consider the player pool for window 4 given that MLS will have been out of season for a couple of months.  A few days ago @gator made a post about it in another thread but I think that discussion probably warrants it’s own thread.  That way Herdman can read all of our collective analysis and base his decisions on them.  

With MLS wrapped up we know a few key guys will be out of season - Johnston, Laryea, Kaye, Miller and Oso from the usual starter pool.  Plus there are lots of depth guys in the same boat - Piette, Crepeau, Cav, ZBG etc.  That is a pretty big hit.

So what does that leave us in terms  of our usual European call ups, guys coming back, fringe guys who will nonetheless be in midsession form, etc.?   And are there MLS guys we think we would call anyway?  And would a solid Camp Poutine  for out of season guys be enough to change that equation?  Lastly you have to consider that this is a three match window (@Honduras, vs USA, @ES) so injuries, suspensions and “load management” could all come into play meaning we will need a few Plan Bs. 

[narduch]

I have a lot of thoughts on this.

Our first match in this window is away to Honduras. So the best place for this camp is probably south Florida.

I think we should play a couple of friendlies during this time to help get the out of season guys some game shape. My suggested opponents are Guatemala or T+T.

One good thing is I believe our opponents will face similar issues. I don't think the Honduran or Salvadoran domestic leagues run in January either.

[dyslexic nam]

3 minutes ago, narduch said:

One good thing is I believe our opponents will face similar issues. I don't think the Honduran or Salvadoran domestic leagues run in January either.

That is a good point.  I knew any US MLS players would be in the same boat but they may have lots of depth abroad.  But good to know re the other two.  Mind you, with their climates and lots of domestically based players, it would be pretty easy to hold extended camps to make sure they stay tuned up.  

[EJsens1]

44 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

It is premature to kick off a whole big window thread discussing games and tactics, but I thought it might be useful to consider the player pool for window 4 given that MLS will have been out of season for a couple of months.  A few days ago @gator made a post about it in another thread but I think that discussion probably warrants it’s own thread.  That way Herdman can read all of our collective analysis and base his decisions on them.  

With MLS wrapped up we know a few key guys will be out of season - Johnston, Laryea, Kaye, Miller and Oso from the usual starter pool.  Plus there are lots of depth guys in the same boat - Piette, Crepeau, Cav, ZBG etc.  That is a pretty big hit.

So what does that leave us in terms  of our usual European call ups, guys coming back, fringe guys who will nonetheless be in midsession form, etc.?   And are there MLS guys we think we would call anyway?  And would a solid Camp Poutine  for out of season guys be enough to change that equation?  Lastly you have to consider that this is a three match window (@Honduras, vs USA, @ES) so injuries, suspensions and “load management” could all come into play meaning we will need a few Plan Bs. 

I’ve been checking my email daily for the zoom link he’ll be issuing for us to join.  I’m sure it will appear after the Mexico game.

It will be interesting for Laryea.  If he gets a transfer overseas (or anyone else for that matter, maybe a Johnston), that will clear it up for him.

That’s an interesting window in terms of our opponents.  Obviously the US will be right in the mix of it, but Honduras and El Salvador could be dead in the water for qualifying by the time we play them after the November window.  Not shedding any tears for either.  Not sure if that makes them more dangerous or if that helps us

[gator]

I think we will have enough in season Euro based players to field a good team, this is going to be a big test for Herdman to get this right, I personally don't think players will get into game shape after almost 3 months between competitive matches by playing a couple of friendlies, of course there are exceptions to the rule! I certainly would not want to risk starting a NA based player over an in season Euro based team mate, the speculative roster I put out shows we have options and depth in almost every position!

[dyslexic nam]

27 minutes ago, gator said:

I think we will have enough in season Euro based players to field a good team, this is going to be a big test for Herdman to get this right, I personally don't think players will get into game shape after almost 3 months between competitive matches by playing a couple of friendlies, of course there are exceptions to the rule! I certainly would not want to risk starting a NA based player over an in season Euro based team mate, the speculative roster I put out shows we have options and depth in almost every position!

I tried to copy it here but my phone wasn’t cooperative. 

[gator]

Assuming Arfield isn't in the mix anymore and all others are healthy we could set up like this:

                                                                                    Borjan

                                     Henry                                    Vittoria                           Kennedy

Buchanan                                                                                                                                     Davies

                                  Stacko                                     Atiba                               Wotherspoon

                                                      Larin                                       David

 

 

[dyslexic nam]

Some thoughts on the pool:

Keeper

- Milan is the obvious choice to come back in as #1

- In backup, the MLS issue really hits us as Crepeau, Pantemis and St Clair would all be out of season.  I don’t know if peak fitness is quite as much of an issue but being match-sharp has to count. 

 

Defence 

- Vitoria is the obvious anchor here.  But I t is a 3-game window…

- For Henry, I am not sure if K League is active then or if they will be in preseason.  

- Both Miller and Johnston will be out of season and will leave some gaps.  I think Kennedy can step in pretty seamlessly for Miller assuming no lingering injury complications, but the loss of Johnston is big.  

- ZBG will be out of season so we lose some depth.  

- More at the fringe, Cornelius and James would both be midseason and Halbouni may be getting first team time by then. 

 

Mids

- Staq is a given.  

- Atiba would be ready to go - but I think his minutes have been getting reduced lately and he wouldn’t play all 3 games.  

- There are some holes here from the MLS guys.  Kaye and Oso logged major minutes and depending on how you define mid vs attack, Laryea would be included here too.  

- Given the positions impacted, it may be the perfect circumstances for an Arfield recall (assuming he wants back in the tent).  His role as an attacking central mid could be pretty key.  

- And as much as Ferdi seems to be looking anywhere but here, this would be a helluva window to grab him. 

 

Forwards/Attack

- This is where we are the least impacted, with our top guys playing in (or moving to) Europe.  Davies, David, and Larin will all be midseason, and Tajon will be at Club Brugges. 

- Depth guys like Brym and Millar will be midseason, and even Corbeanu could be included here.  

- Cav will be out of season, as will fringe guys like Shaff. 

- Ennin could be called in, though it looks like the Russian Premier League takes a long break between December and February.  

- Call ups like Jebbison could also add depth as he will be midseason. 

 

Probably missing lots but I think we are in decent shape.  I think the biggest areas of concern are:

- On the right side of defence, where any of Johnston, Laryea, and ZBG could normally contribute

- Attacking central mid where the potential loss of Kaye and Oso hurts 

- Backup keeper is a bit of a concern because we would be one injury to Milan away from starting someone completely out of season.  

[narduch]

32 minutes ago, gator said:

Assuming Arfield isn't in the mix anymore and all others are healthy we could set up like this:

                                                                                    Borjan

                                     Henry                                    Vittoria                           Kennedy

Buchanan                                                                                                                                     Davies

                                  Stacko                                     Atiba                               Wotherspoon

                                                      Larin                                       David

 

 

Henry will be in his off season 

[narduch]

Cornelius would be a CB in a league still playing in January (Greece).

Edited October 24, 2021 by narduch

[gator]

12 minutes ago, narduch said:

Henry will be in his off season 

Yes, that was mentioned in the other thread and as I stated he was a concern for me in that lineup even if he was match fit, I think he is best in the middle of the 3, hopefully Johnson will be up to the task! My other concern is whether that midfield has enough legs to compete, there isn't a lot of speed for tracking back, of course that is just an illustration of what we could potentially play if we started in season players! Things can change quite a bit between now and then with injuries and the possibility of Laryea and Johnson joining Buchanan with a move overseas!

[narduch]

We might also run into pushback from clubs.

For instance Kennedy's club has matches scheduled during this window.

Same issue with Buchanan and Club Brugge

[dyslexic nam]

2 minutes ago, narduch said:

We might also run into pushback from clubs.

For instance Kennedy's club has matches scheduled during this window.

Same issue with Buchanan and Club Brugge

As a FIFA window, do those clubs have the right to refuse?  I know the biggest leagues usually break for windows but I don’t know the situation with these leagues in this unique cycle.  

[gator]

As for a back up keeper as @dyslexic nam mentions the match fitness my not be as big of an issue and we also can call Jayson Leutwiler, I think Cornelius could play a big part here as well because of Henry being out of season and if Kennedy is not available!

[dyslexic nam]

8 minutes ago, gator said:

Yes, that was mentioned in the other thread and as I stated he was a concern for me in that lineup even if he was match fit, I think he is best in the middle of the 3, hopefully Johnson will be up to the task! My other concern is whether that midfield has enough legs to compete, there isn't a lot of speed for tracking back, of course that is just an illustration of what we could potentially play if we started in season players! Things can change quite a bit between now and then with injuries and the possibility of Laryea and Johnson joining Buchanan with a move overseas!

The MLS guys are a really intriguing prospect for this window.   Johnston and Laryea seem like the kind of guys who couldn’t get out of shape if they tried but I don’t know if that carries over into these games after a feW months off.  Presumably not. 

[Floortom]

6 minutes ago, narduch said:

We might also run into pushback from clubs.

For instance Kennedy's club has matches scheduled during this window.

Same issue with Buchanan and Club Brugge

I noticed that too.

wouldnt be surprised if we have to compromise. For instance, if Tajon is only called in for our last two matches during that window he would only have to miss one club match. Maybe that would keep everyone happy (including Tajon - keep in mind he will  have just arrived at his new club too).

[gator]

10 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

The MLS guys are a really intriguing prospect for this window.   Johnston and Laryea seem like the kind of guys who couldn’t get out of shape if they tried but I don’t know if that carries over into these games after a feW months off.  Presumably not. 

I don't think any of these modern footballers actually get out of shape, it is just match fitness that concerns me and this can't be replicated by a couple of friendlies or playing indoors in winter leagues!

[dyslexic nam]

Was thinking about lineups and realized I missed Hoilett and Adekugbe.  
 

[top cheese]

First, I don’t think the team has the depth to say “ mls players are out of season”  as you seen last window when 4-5 of the European based players were unavailable there was some significant issues in the roster depth. If lareya and Johnson go to England at the next window and the no fly restrictions are still in effect this might happen again this window. 
 

I think that herdman picks his best team mls players as professionals  should continue to stay in shape

[Unnamed Trialist]

Was just checking FIFA dates. As UEFA will be pending the final qualifying in March, I think, that late January period is for all confederations except UEFA.

Conmebol has 2 dates, we have 3. So they are agreed-upon international dates and clubs have to release players. 

Cup of Africa is in January and that is going to take many international players away from their clubs when the leagues are still going.

Then, in the March Fifa dates, all nations will use them, including UEFA. Their second repechage takes 12 UEFA nations not qualifying directly and does 3 sets of semis, single match semis and finals with the three winners going to Qatar; so these 12 UEFA countries will have for sure FIFA dates in March. The rest will be doing friendlies.

Point is: they have to release players even in January, it is the law of the game. 

Second point: maybe some players may have to think about things, though I think if you want to go to the WC you have to be all in. Kennedy is perhaps one of the complicated cases, if being injured means he takes a while to get back into the mix. Tajon at Brugge, who will have various players on international duty, is less a worry. Basically, a lot of European leagues have programmed matches in that late January window and our most in form players will be affected.

[EJsens1]

6 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

Some thoughts on the pool:

Keeper

- Milan is the obvious choice to come back in as #1

- In backup, the MLS issue really hits us as Crepeau, Pantemis and St Clair would all be out of season.  I don’t know if peak fitness is quite as much of an issue but being match-sharp has to count. 

 

Defence 

- Vitoria is the obvious anchor here.  But I t is a 3-game window…

- For Henry, I am not sure if K League is active then or if they will be in preseason.  

- Both Miller and Johnston will be out of season and will leave some gaps.  I think Kennedy can step in pretty seamlessly for Miller assuming no lingering injury complications, but the loss of Johnston is big.  

- ZBG will be out of season so we lose some depth.  

- More at the fringe, Cornelius and James would both be midseason and Halbouni may be getting first team time by then. 

 

Mids

- Staq is a given.  

- Atiba would be ready to go - but I think his minutes have been getting reduced lately and he wouldn’t play all 3 games.  

- There are some holes here from the MLS guys.  Kaye and Oso logged major minutes and depending on how you define mid vs attack, Laryea would be included here too.  

- Given the positions impacted, it may be the perfect circumstances for an Arfield recall (assuming he wants back in the tent).  His role as an attacking central mid could be pretty key.  

- And as much as Ferdi seems to be looking anywhere but here, this would be a helluva window to grab him. 

 

Forwards/Attack

- This is where we are the least impacted, with our top guys playing in (or moving to) Europe.  Davies, David, and Larin will all be midseason, and Tajon will be at Club Brugges. 

- Depth guys like Brym and Millar will be midseason, and even Corbeanu could be included here.  

- Cav will be out of season, as will fringe guys like Shaff. 

- Ennin could be called in, though it looks like the Russian Premier League takes a long break between December and February.  

- Call ups like Jebbison could also add depth as he will be midseason. 

 

Probably missing lots but I think we are in decent shape.  I think the biggest areas of concern are:

- On the right side of defence, where any of Johnston, Laryea, and ZBG could normally contribute

- Attacking central mid where the potential loss of Kaye and Oso hurts 

- Backup keeper is a bit of a concern because we would be one injury to Milan away from starting someone completely out of season.  

I assume it just slipped your mind, but Hoilett should feature pretty strongly in this window too for our midfield/forward attack as he’ll be playing too.  Unless I missed something and he’s out injured for a while here, I take it back 

[dyslexic nam]

21 minutes ago, EJsens1 said:

I assume it just slipped your mind, but Hoilett should feature pretty strongly in this window too for our midfield/forward attack as he’ll be playing too.  Unless I missed something and he’s out injured for a while here, I take it back 

Yeah I caught that one a bit later.  Adekugbe too.  

[Unnamed Trialist]

I posted this in the wrong place, in the C Abroad thread for this week, but here we go: January is a good opportunity to do a camp before the window comes along. 

We need to get our MLS and out of season players up a notch and game fit. We also have the advantage, if we do a camp, that we'll have players not affected by travel, they'll already be there. 

Given our first fixture is at Honduras, Texas or Florida would work, leaving us a relatively short flight away, less than 3 hours.

We call in the core MLS and inactive group (includes Henry), and also call in more players as support, the u-23 group, others on the fringe, thinking exclusively of those not in season. That is about the 8-10 inactive core and another 10 to support them.

You need a group of 20-22 to train, and should have 2-3 keepers. Once the European based players are in, they have 2-3 days training and then we fly to play. That also gives us a cushion on site in case we end up missing our European based players to injury or other.

We are assuming our home match goes to Vancouver. Since it is a flight from Central America and back, there is no basic difference once you are down there. The only real consideration is that there are not as many direct flight options to Vancouver, so you may have to think about other solutions.

[dyslexic nam]

I just did a few test formations to see how we look and despite the potential absence of MLS guys we look fairly solid.  Still thin at RB and backup keeper, but other than that this is a pretty solid team - especially if a lot of Honduras and ES core players are out of season. 
 

EDIT:  and I realize these have issues (e.g. one has Kennedy at RB and one just has a series of question marks…) but it was just to get a sense of how we could generate a solid starting 11   

Edited October 24, 2021 by dyslexic nam

[narduch]

4 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

I just did a few test formations to see how we look and despite the potential absence of MLS guys we look fairly solid.  Still thin at RB and backup keeper, but other than that this is a pretty solid team - especially if a lot of Honduras and ES core players are out of season. 
 

 

Henry will be in his off season too.

Is Cornelius right or left footed?

Could also consider playing a traditional 4 at the back meaning we only need 2 CB