Match Thread: Voyageurs Cup - Semi-Final - Forge v CF Montreal - October 27, 2021

[gator]

I have to say that Bassong was class for Montreal, he must be in the mix for more minutes for them! These MLS sides should be able to walk all over CPL teams no matter who they start, follow the money, I would like to see the CPL gradually up their cap to pay players better, maybe after matches like this more of the CPL players get a chance to earn more money in MLS?

[king1010]

9 hours ago, jonovision said:

Forge may go toe to toe occasionally against teams from a bigger league. But they are not like the other teams. Almost every big moment, big decision, etc., since the league opened has gone their way. They have what is, at the very least, a curious talent and recruiting advantage over two-thirds of the league. They are the only team that has had the opportunity to play in big matches. They have the smartest manager in football (just ask him). 

They are a good side and I'm tired of watching them. Happy to see Montreal advance, despite their not taking the tie seriously (see: their XI). There is no trickle-down. Success for Forge doesn't mean squat for Edmonton, Valour, Ottawa, etc.

Why the hate for forge?

Edited October 28, 2021 by king1010

[narduch]

20 minutes ago, king1010 said:

Why the hate for forge?

I think its fair to question whether the league favours Forge and lets them skirt some of the roster rules.

For instance by my count the have 29 players signed. I believe the limit is 23.

[jonovision]

1 hour ago, king1010 said:

Why the hate for forge?

Lets just say they have lived a pretty charmed life in CPL until now and have some advantages which, fair or not, are tough to swallow for fans of any other team in the league.

Also their kit is terrible. And Montreal is a fun team to root for this year too.

[Unnamed Trialist]

7 minutes ago, jonovision said:

Lets just say they have lived a pretty charmed life in CPL until now and have some advantages which, fair or not, are tough to swallow for fans of any other team in the league.

Also their kit is terrible. And Montreal is a fun team to root for this year too.

They're not divine. No team is invincible. I wear my Forge t-shirt around Barcelona because it's very nice and very comfortable but I also want them to lose in CPL. 

But it's not their problem, it's the rest of the clubs'. Every club has an in or advantage that if they were winning the rest might call unfair. 

Imagine what folks would be saying if Atlético Ottawa was running over everyone. 

[jonovision]

1 minute ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

They're not divine. No team is invincible. I wear my Forge t-shirt around Barcelona because it's very nice and very comfortable but I also want them to lose in CPL. 

But it's not their problem, it's the rest of the clubs'. Every club has an in or advantage that if they were winning the rest might call unfair. 

Imagine what folks would be saying if Atlético Ottawa was running over everyone. 

I can't think of a single advantage a team like, say, Edmonton enjoys other than an owner who doesn't seem to mind losing money every year while fielding a bad team.

[gator]

All you MLS worshipers claiming Forge would just be rolled over if Montreal decided to play their best might consider that the match is played on the field not your FIFA video game, who's says if these high priced heroes were sacrificed in a match like this that they would actually get the job done? Forge played quite well and in my opinion the MLS side was very fortunate not to lose, btw by my count at least 8 outfield players from Montreal played in a crucial match Saturday vs TFC, furthemore Forge were missing their big signing stud Center Back and had a midfielder playing Right Back! At no point am I saying CPL is as good as MLS, once again follow the money but I don't think the gap is near what some of you think and it surprises me on a Canadian Supporters board that there are so many critics of this Canadian league and a Forge team that is quite  competitive vs teams from other leagues! 

[jonovision]

1 minute ago, gator said:

All you MLS worshipers claiming Forge would just be rolled over if Montreal decided to play their best might consider that the match is played on the field not your FIFA video game, who's says if these high priced heroes were sacrificed in a match like this that they would actually get the job done? Forge played quite well and in my opinion the MLS side was very fortunate not to lose, btw by my count at least 8 outfield players from Montreal played in a crucial match Saturday vs TFC, furthemore Forge were missing their big signing stud Center Back and had a midfielder playing Right Back! At no point am I saying CPL is as good as MLS, once again follow the money but I don't think the gap is near what some of you think and it surprises me on a Canadian Supporters board that there are so many critics of this Canadian league and a Forge team that is quite  competitive vs teams from other leagues! 

The team that played against Toronto was also a weakened Montreal side (down their two best forwards and best midfielder due to injury). But otherwise your point about Forge being competitive in these matches (and in CONCACAF, of course) is correct. My point is that the gap from an MLS B or B+ team to Forge is probably smaller than the gap from Forge to the bottom 5 teams in the CPL. Which is good for the upper class of the Canadian Premier League but not great for anyone else.

[narduch]

4 minutes ago, gator said:

All you MLS worshipers claiming Forge would just be rolled over if Montreal decided to play their best might consider that the match is played on the field not your FIFA video game, who's says if these high priced heroes were sacrificed in a match like this that they would actually get the job done? Forge played quite well and in my opinion the MLS side was very fortunate not to lose, btw by my count at least 8 outfield players from Montreal played in a crucial match Saturday vs TFC, furthemore Forge were missing their big signing stud Center Back and had a midfielder playing Right Back! At no point am I saying CPL is as good as MLS, once again follow the money but I don't think the gap is near what some of you think and it surprises me on a Canadian Supporters board that there are so many critics of this Canadian league and a Forge team that is quite  competitive vs teams from other leagues! 

Weren't they only really missing 3-4 regular starters? Not including injured guys?

Besides most of the players Montréal did use are regular contributors.

On this site some people argue Breza is better than Pantemis. 

The striker Montreal did use, Ibrahim,  has scored some big goals for them in the league the past few weeks.

On paper Montreal was still the favorites 

[jonovision]

14 minutes ago, narduch said:

Weren't they only really missing 3-4 regular starters? Not including injured guys?

Besides most of the players Montréal did use are regular contributors.

On this site some people argue Breza is better than Pantemis. 

The striker Montreal did use, Ibrahim,  has scored some big goals for them in the league the past few weeks.

On paper Montreal was still the favorites 

Pantemis, Camacho, Miller, Wanyama, Quioto, Torres, Mihailovic, Choiniere, Wanyama.

Yesterday's squad had 3 guys that would start if everyone was healthy (Waterman, Piette, ZBG). Even Waterman is arguable.

Still favourites, of course, and should have performed better yesterday. It did not appear to be a very motivated team out there. Disappointing from them.

Edited October 28, 2021 by jonovision

[narduch]

Just now, jonovision said:

Pantemis, Camacho, Miller, Wanyama, Quioto, Torres, Mihailovic, Wanyama.

Yesterday's squad had 3 guys that would start if everyone was healthy (Waterman, Piette, ZBG). Even Waterman is arguable.

Again. I think Pantemis v Breza is a toss up. A couple of those other guys are injured anyways.

My point is that Montreal should still win this game easy.

Pacific v TFC next week will be an interesting gauge. TFC will be able to field their strongest line up as they have nothing else to play for. Although Soteldo might be out, they should have Pozuelo and a rejuvenated Altidore this time.

York United looked like fodder in their Cup game against TFC

[RickC]

What I believe separated Forge's effort last night from Montreal's wasn't so much the players which Montreal didn't play, but the work rate of Forge's players. An orange jersey seemed to always get to the ball first, and 50/50 balls were often won by Forge too. I'm proud of the way the team came out and played their usual style against a club of much bigger stature, rather than parking the bus.

I also have to say the BSB were in fine form. Who ever thought of their latest song deserves massive credit. Sung to Twisted Sister's "classic" We're Not Going to Take It...You are not the Impact, no you're not the Impact, you are not the Impact anymore. Brilliant!

[gator]

20 minutes ago, RickC said:

.

I also have to say the BSB were in fine form. Who ever thought of their latest song deserves massive credit. Sung to Twisted Sister's "classic" We're Not Going to Take It...You are not the Impact, no you're not the Impact, you are not the Impact anymore. Brilliant!

We started that one with At Ottawa, You are not the Fury...............

[Aird25]

1 hour ago, jonovision said:

My point is that the gap from an MLS B or B+ team to Forge is probably smaller than the gap from Forge to the bottom 5 teams in the CPL.

Forge is little better than .500 against the bottom 5 teams in CPL action this year

Edited October 28, 2021 by Aird25

[Unnamed Trialist]

19 hours ago, jonovision said:

I can't think of a single advantage a team like, say, Edmonton enjoys other than an owner who doesn't seem to mind losing money every year while fielding a bad team.

They have a connection with their academy and the community. And a tradition of producing decent players out of Edmonton. The USL teams, it is a team that existed with the same name before CPL: what other team has that.  They also have the advantage that they'll rival with Calgary and that gives a team an edge, if you know how to use it in your favour. That is not the case with all of the other teams.

 

[Unnamed Trialist]

19 hours ago, gator said:

All you MLS worshipers claiming Forge would just be rolled over if Montreal decided to play their best might consider that the match is played on the field not your FIFA video game, who's says if these high priced heroes were sacrificed in a match like this that they would actually get the job done? Forge played quite well and in my opinion the MLS side was very fortunate not to lose, btw by my count at least 8 outfield players from Montreal played in a crucial match Saturday vs TFC, furthemore Forge were missing their big signing stud Center Back and had a midfielder playing Right Back! At no point am I saying CPL is as good as MLS, once again follow the money but I don't think the gap is near what some of you think and it surprises me on a Canadian Supporters board that there are so many critics of this Canadian league and a Forge team that is quite  competitive vs teams from other leagues! 

I think it is interesting that it does seem the gap is not huge, but on the other hand, how many CPL players are clearly and hands down MLS quality players? I doubt we'd have a consensus on any more than 5-6, even then. I'm a Pacific fan and have seen them in the stadium, but I don't think a single Pacific player is clearly MLS level, like to get important minutes. 

What I do think is that in two years, or three, we'll start to see more movement. Also because you can offer a bottom-end MLS salary and get someone to play a role. For me, for now, there is a big difference.

[Ansem]

Moral of the story, removed DPs and MLS squad quickly lose their "magic".

[Ansem]

2 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I think it is interesting that it does seem the gap is not huge, but on the other hand, how many CPL players are clearly and hands down MLS quality players? I doubt we'd have a consensus on any more than 5-6, even then. I'm a Pacific fan and have seen them in the stadium, but I don't think a single Pacific player is clearly MLS level, like to get important minutes. 

Yet Waterman is playing MLS...

Can we stop comparing "MLS level" as the "legendary Super Saiyan" transformation that's next to impossible to achieve?

Edited October 29, 2021 by Ansem