WCQ: Third Round - Window 2 (October 7-13, 2021)

[Kent]

12 hours ago, sstackho said:

If there is one good thing about this damn pandemic, it's that they did away with the god-awful original qualifying format.  I can't even. 

Original format

On 10 July 2019, CONCACAF announced a restructured qualifying format for the World Cup.^[2] After CONCACAF initially announced in March 2018 that they would use the CONCACAF Ranking Index to determine the seeding of CONCACAF teams for qualifying to international tournaments,^[3] it was determined that FIFA Rankings would be used instead.

• Top-seeded Hexagonal group: The top 6 ranked CONCACAF teams based on the FIFA rankings of June 2020 were to play home-and-away round-robin matches in one single group (often referred to as the "Hexagonal"). The top three teams would have qualified for the World Cup, and the fourth-placed team would have advanced to the CONCACAF play-off round.
• Lower-seeded group stage and knockout stage: The remaining CONCACAF teams (ranked 7 to 35 based on the FIFA rankings of June 2020) were to be divided into eight groups (five groups of four teams and three groups of three teams) to play home-and-away round-robin matches. The winners of each group would have advanced to a knockout stage, consisting of the quarter-finals, semi-finals and final to be played in a two-legged home-and-away series. The winner of the knockout stage would have also advanced to the CONCACAF play-off round.
• Play-off round: The fourth-placed team of the Hexagonal group would have faced the winner of the knockout stage in order to advance to the inter-confederation play-offs.

Yeah, the 3rd and 4th place teams right now weren't even supposed to be in the hex under the original plan. 

[narduch]

12 hours ago, sstackho said:

If there is one good thing about this damn pandemic, it's that they did away with the god-awful original qualifying format.  I can't even. 

Original format

On 10 July 2019, CONCACAF announced a restructured qualifying format for the World Cup.^[2] After CONCACAF initially announced in March 2018 that they would use the CONCACAF Ranking Index to determine the seeding of CONCACAF teams for qualifying to international tournaments,^[3] it was determined that FIFA Rankings would be used instead.

• Top-seeded Hexagonal group: The top 6 ranked CONCACAF teams based on the FIFA rankings of June 2020 were to play home-and-away round-robin matches in one single group (often referred to as the "Hexagonal"). The top three teams would have qualified for the World Cup, and the fourth-placed team would have advanced to the CONCACAF play-off round.
• Lower-seeded group stage and knockout stage: The remaining CONCACAF teams (ranked 7 to 35 based on the FIFA rankings of June 2020) were to be divided into eight groups (five groups of four teams and three groups of three teams) to play home-and-away round-robin matches. The winners of each group would have advanced to a knockout stage, consisting of the quarter-finals, semi-finals and final to be played in a two-legged home-and-away series. The winner of the knockout stage would have also advanced to the CONCACAF play-off round.
• Play-off round: The fourth-placed team of the Hexagonal group would have faced the winner of the knockout stage in order to advance to the inter-confederation play-offs.

I hate both formats. But obviously the original was even worse 

[sstackho]

You hate the Octogonal?  I am absolutely loving the format.  I’m sad that the 2026 World Cup is moving to 48 teams and will necessitate changes to the qualifying format, because I could really get used to this.   

[dyslexic nam]

19 minutes ago, sstackho said:

You hate the Octogonal?  I am absolutely loving the format.  I’m sad that the 2026 World Cup is moving to 48 teams and will necessitate changes to the qualifying format, because I could really get used to this.   

Yeah, even before a ball was kicked I loved the idea of this many meaningful games.  Now that we are in it and thriving, I love it even more.  

[narduch]

26 minutes ago, sstackho said:

You hate the Octogonal?  I am absolutely loving the format.  I’m sad that the 2026 World Cup is moving to 48 teams and will necessitate changes to the qualifying format, because I could really get used to this.   

The octagonal is amazing and Concacaf probably should have used it sooner. 

I hate that 5 teams were gifted a spot in it. 

[CanadaFan123]

Crazy to think they had the hex for so many cycles. To have all but 6 teams in eliminated 1.5 years before the World Cup - so silly. 

[El Hombre]

23 hours ago, Kent said:

This probably belongs more in the Panama game thread, but I haven't caught up to it, and I do plan on doing that. But this morning on Sportscentre it began with something like this (going from memory so not exactly correct). "Big night last night, with 5 Canadian teams starting their NHL seasons, but first..." and they proceeded to show highlights and talk about the Canada vs Panama game for 7 minutes. I know it has been a gradual shift, but I can't help but think back to 15 years ago, 30 years ago, when a Canada game on a slow day in sports would get a 20 second blurb very late in the show. Leading off the show on (essentially) opening night for the NHL, and spending that much time on it. It's amazing. The hype is real!

It is amazing.  We had CBC radio on last night while getting dinner ready and they were still talking about Davies' run. 

[Cblake]

1 hour ago, El Hombre said:

It is amazing.  We had CBC radio on last night while getting dinner ready and they were still talking about Davies' run. 

He certainly has been the hot topic in the news cycle over the last few days. Great to see. Now him and Drake likely knocked it up a few notches too (  :

[canuckgbp]

Stay classy El Salvador 

 

[dyslexic nam]

16 minutes ago, canuckgbp said:

Stay classy El Salvador 

 

It is an absolute joke that this is allowed to happen and continue.  I know many of us are so desensitized to it that we just throw our hands up and chuckle while saying “CONCACAF” with some degree of exasperation but when you take a step back it is absolutely pathetic that it is allowed to continue unpunished.  

He had multiple laser pointers aimed at him while taking the kick, and bags of what was possibly piss were being hurled from the crowd.  In Mexico, the chant continues despite FIFA’s and CONCACAF’s hollow threats to do something about it.  This isn’t ancient Rome - there is no need to let this ridiculous shit continue.  

Imagine Phonzie going to take a corner and being hit with a water balloon of piss.   Hell, imagine it happened  to you at an event.   No one should have to deal with that sort of disgusting, barbaric bullshit.  It is like the Panamanian guy trying to spit in Richie’s face.  That isn’t competition or playing hard - he tried to spit in his fucking face.  There should be punishments for that sort of bullshit.  Failure to address it condones it.  Pathetic.   
 

 

Edited October 15, 2021 by dyslexic nam

[CanadaFan123]

They aren't bags of piss. It's not right either way but it's water.

[dyslexic nam]

8 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

They aren't bags of piss. It's not right either way but it's water.

A bag can be refilled, and we know from Honduras that it does happen.  

[sstackho]

I watched parts of both the El Salvador and Honduras home matches.  Honduras seemed very tame - nowhere close to a sell-out and no projectiles that I noticed. 

El Salvador was another story.  I don't see it stopping unless FIFA imposes a closed-door match like they did to Mexico.  

[CanadianSoccerFan]

Mexico was also angry that a Canadian was reffing the game.  I swear everything is seen as a Montagliani conspiracy now.  

 

https://www.espn.com.mx/futbol/mexico/nota/_/id/9357144/seleccion-mexicana-el-salvador-molestias-arbitraje-aficion

[rkomar]

When I was at the Women's World Cup matches at BC Place, you had to open any bottle of pop you bought at the counter and leave the bottle top with them.  FIFA were afraid that someone would fire a plastic cap onto the pitch.  It's amazing to consider the gulf between FIFA and CONCACAF when it comes to rules about fans endangering players.

[An Observer]

I don’t think it’s the plastic cap they are concerned about but it makes it much more difficult to throw an open bottle be it either one with liquid will spill out over the fan base when thrown which will act as deterrent to throw it or and empty bottle won’t go far. 

[rkomar]

That makes sense.  The woman at the counter thought it was about shooting the caps onto the field, but maybe the real reason got lost somewhere in the chain of command from FIFA to counter clerk. 

[Fullback]

Watching this kind of stuff makes me want Borjan to start the game. He’s been in CONCACAF, he’s seen some shit in Serbia. 
 

If someone could remain calm in this shit it’s  Milan

[Kent]

My thoughts.

1. Yeah, there is no way there are that many piss bags, perfectly resealed to only explode when they hit the ground. 95%+ are water, and likely 100%.

2. The cap thing is definitely about not being able to reclose your bottle. Even if you don't take a drink, if you throw an open bottle at the field, it will be mostly empty by the time it gets there and not nearly the same damage can be done as a closed, full, heavy bottle. I've been hit in the back of the head/neck by a closed plastic water bottle at a concert before. It didn't do damage to me, but it definitely didn't feel nice and it shocked/confused me.

3. The madness that went on in El Salvador absolutely has to be stopped. That is outrageous.

4. With number 3 above said, I watched some of that game and thought to myself that I hope our players watch that. So many times the bags were landing right next to Mexican players and they weren't even flinching, including during the penalty they scored on. You hope it doesn't happen when we get there, but you've got to be prepared to just get on with your game if it does happen.

[CanadaFan123]

3 minutes ago, Kent said:

My thoughts.

1. Yeah, there is no way there are that many piss bags, perfectly resealed to only explode when they hit the ground. 95%+ are water, and likely 100%.

2. The cap thing is definitely about not being able to reclose your bottle. Even if you don't take a drink, if you throw an open bottle at the field, it will be mostly empty by the time it gets there and not nearly the same damage can be done as a closed, full, heavy bottle. I've been hit in the back of the head/neck by a closed plastic water bottle at a concert before. It didn't do damage to me, but it definitely didn't feel nice and it shocked/confused me.

3. The madness that went on in El Salvador absolutely has to be stopped. That is outrageous.

4. With number 3 above said, I watched some of that game and thought to myself that I hope our players watch that. So many times the bags were landing right next to Mexican players and they weren't even flinching, including during the penalty they scored on. You hope it doesn't happen when we get there, but you've got to be prepared to just get on with your game if it does happen.

Unless it’s a chance for us then you have to be prepared to gamesmanship the hell out of it if something comes near you. 

[JBD]

On 10/15/2021 at 5:48 PM, CanadianSoccerFan said:

Mexico was also angry that a Canadian was reffing the game.  I swear everything is seen as a Montagliani conspiracy now.  

 

https://www.espn.com.mx/futbol/mexico/nota/_/id/9357144/seleccion-mexicana-el-salvador-molestias-arbitraje-aficion

I cannot tell you how much I love this. They see us coming. They’re threatened. It is the same as how they hit us with the chant and play emotional and dirty vs us now. 
 

They see us. We have their attention.  

Edited October 17, 2021 by JBD

[Kusch to the Corner]

On 10/16/2021 at 1:30 AM, Fullback said:

Watching this kind of stuff makes me want Borjan to start the game. He’s been in CONCACAF, he’s seen some shit in Serbia. 
 

If someone could remain calm in this shit it’s  Milan

Ha ha! I can see it going one of two ways with Borjan... 

Either he totally loses his shit; 

Or he starts waving to the crowd encouraging them to throw more 😂

[Unnamed Trialist]

On 10/15/2021 at 10:31 PM, rkomar said:

When I was at the Women's World Cup matches at BC Place, you had to open any bottle of pop you bought at the counter and leave the bottle top with them.  FIFA were afraid that someone would fire a plastic cap onto the pitch.  It's amazing to consider the gulf between FIFA and CONCACAF when it comes to rules about fans endangering players.

That is not only standard in La Liga, and has been for years now. It is also applied in lower division, down to full amateur. You cannot go into a stand in federated football of any kind in Spain with a bottle that can be closed. You can't go with a can. Any drink has to have been poured into a cup. At the entrance to each gate of every stadium in Spain you see literally dozens of plastic water bottles and cans that fans have abandoned. 

They had to make a special provision for parents with babies taking in baby bottles, no joking.

[kungfucious]

On 10/14/2021 at 7:27 AM, AvroArrow said:

Yes, the fact that this was the original plan was absolutely bonkers.  This means the BEST we could have done is iner-confed playoff.  Now we are talking about autoqualifying.

can i add soomething so everybody knows and never forgets?

that previous qualifying format was announced, confirmed, and already underway!  4.5/6 spots were all but set when the pandemic hit and that necessitated a complete reset.  we were given a HUGE second chance with this octo.  completely unfair and unethical to move the goalposts for those 4.5 teams.  i wish this was still a 32 WC, but selfishly who am i to make demands or expectations?  credit the boys for making the most out of this second chance.

 

somebody pls confirm the crazy things i said above so the bandwagon newbies know this is the truth and im not some 'bunbury' or a 'leroux'

Edited November 10, 2021 by kungfucious
edit for logic

[Kent]

1 hour ago, kungfucious said:

can i add soomething so everybody knows and never forgets?

that previous qualifying format was announced, confirmed, and already underway!  4.5/6 spots were all but set when the pandemic hit and that necessitated a complete reset.  we were given a HUGE second chance with this octo.  completely unfair and unethical to move the goalposts for those 4.5 teams.  i wish this was still a 32 WC, but selfishly who am i to make demands or expectations?  credit the boys for making the most out of this second chance.

 

somebody pls confirm the crazy things i said above so the bandwagon newbies know this is the truth and im not some 'bunbury' or a 'leroux'

I can confirm that you are incorrect about a lot of what you said. No World Cup Qualifying games had been played yet, so qualifying wasn't already underway. The top 6 teams were going to be determined by the June 2020 FIFA World Rankings. Things were shut down before June. So there weren't even any matchups determined, in either the top half or bottom half of qualifying. If you meant that the top 4 teams in the ranking were definitely going to be in the hex, well that didn't change with the new format. The top 5 ranked teams auto-qualified for the final 8 team group stage that we are in at the moment.

"I wish this was still a 32 WC". I assume by this you mean you wish it was a 32 team World Cup in 2022. You are in luck, it is still a 32 team World Cup. The 2026 World Cup is the one that will be expanded. There was a brief suggestion that maybe the Qatar World Cup could be expanded as well, but nothing ever came of that. With that cleared up, I feel I should make sure you are aware that there are still only 3.5 spots allocated for CONCACAF for this World Cup. So Canada at the moment is in the last auto qualify spot since we are 3rd in the final group, with 8 games to go.