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World Cup Qualifying Third Round Match Day 1: Canada Honduras - Thursday, September 2nd, 2021 - BMO Field, Toronto.


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If you didn't watch this game and only read this thread you would think Kamal Miller is the worse defender in the world...

Here are some thoughts from a strictly "results oriented perspective". 

1) was Miller's game flawless vs Honduras? No. 

2) Could Miller have played better? Yes, many players could have. 

3) Did Miller cost us a goal? No. 

4) Did Miller win some very important headers and clear some crosses? Yes.  ( Especially 2nd half as I watched live from row 1 section 114. )

5) Does Miller chewing up 80+ min without being responsible for a goal  allow for a fresh Kennedy vs the USA? Yes. (Kennedy fresh off Sunday Bundy2 game + Euro travel)

6) Buchanan commits the PK, Kennedy bails out Davies huge final minutes and Borjan bails out Vitoria with a save but Miller still the whipping boy last 48 hours on this form? It appears so. 

Again, not saying Miller had the best game of his life, but some comments (not all) seem very harsh. Agree, he was not the prettiest at times but from a strictly "results oriented perspective", which is what WCQ is, he did his job. As for the turnovers etc. I mean arguments could be made some of that also had to do with midfield formation and lack of link up. We have enough offensive talent the back 3's #1 priority is clean sheet. 

Anyways on to the next, and I agree with most, I definitely think we see both Kennedy and Adekugbe vs USA. 

Edited by apbsmith
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1 minute ago, apbsmith said:

If you didn't watch this game and only read this thread you would think Kamal Miller is the worse defender in the world...

Here are some thoughts from a strictly "results oriented perspective". 

1) was Miller's game flawless vs Honduras? No. 

2) Could Miller have played better? Yes, many players could have. 

3) Did Miller cost us a goal? No. 

4) Did Miller win some very important headers and clear some crosses? Yes.  ( Especially 2nd half as I watched live from row 1 section 114. )

5) Does Miller chewing up 80+ min without being responsible for a goal  allow for a fresh Kennedy vs the USA? Yes. (Kennedy fresh off Sunday Bundy2 game + Euro travel)

6) Buchanan commits the PK, Kennedy bails out Davies huge final minutes and Borjan bails out Vitoria with a save but Miller still the whipping boy last 48 hours on this form? It appears so. 

Again, not saying Miller had the best game of his life, but some comments (not all) seem very harsh. Agree, he was not the prettiest at times but from a strictly "results oriented perspective", which is what WCQ is, he did his job. As for the turnovers etc. I mean arguments could be made some of that also had to do with 3 mid formation and lack of link up. 

Anyways on to the next, and I agree with most, I definitely think we see both Kennedy and Adekugbe vs USA. 

These are the Fotmob ratings for our starters. Laryea as MOTM

I think we hyper analyze 1 or 2 mistakes sometimes. Miller had a good game overall 

 

Screenshot_20210904-092751_FotMob.jpg

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2 minutes ago, apbsmith said:

If you didn't watch this game and only read this thread you would think Kamal Miller is the worse defender in the world...

Here are some thoughts from a strictly "results oriented perspective". 

1) was Miller's game flawless vs Honduras? No. 

2) Could Miller have played better? Yes, many players could have. 

3) Did Miller cost us a goal? No. 

4) Did Miller win some very important headers and clear some crosses? Yes.  ( Especially 2nd half as I watched live from row 1 section 114. )

5) Does Miller chewing up 80+ min without being responsible for a goal  allow for a fresh Kennedy vs the USA? Yes. (Kennedy fresh off Sunday Bundy2 game + Euro travel)

6) Buchanan commits the PK, Kennedy bails out Davies huge final minutes and Borjan bails out Vitoria with a save but Miller still the whipping boy last 48 hours on this form? It appears so. 

Again, not saying Miller had the best game of his life, but some comments (not all) seem very harsh. Agree, he was not the prettiest at times but from a strictly "results oriented perspective", which is what WCQ is, he did his job. As for the turnovers etc. I mean arguments could be made some of that also had to do with 3 mid formation and lack of link up. 

Anyways on to the next, and I agree with most, I definitely think we see both Kennedy and Adekugbe vs USA. 

I agree it wasn’t terrible, but he passed the ball directly to a Honduran player what seemed like 5 or 6 times over the course of the game - and many of those passes led to instant pressure.  Throw in the completely missed header that took him entirely out of the play when Honduras broke forward and it wasn’t great overall.   I think it was also that his errors were pretty conspicuous unforced mistakes rather than just getting beaten once or twice.  

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Just now, dyslexic nam said:

I agree it wasn’t terrible, but he passed the ball directly to a Honduran player what seemed like 5 or 6 times over the course of the game - and many of those passes led to instant pressure.  Throw in the completely missed header that took him entirely out of the play when Honduras broke forward and it wasn’t great overall.   I think it was also that his errors were pretty conspicuous unforced mistakes rather than just getting beaten once or twice.  

Fair enough, for sure the criticism is justified just felt some was quite harsh. Him playing out the back I also don't think has always been one of the strongest part of his game. Something he will need to work on. 

Was just commenting on overal sentiment. Mood of the board prolly not as harsh if we win though. 

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23 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

I am a fan of Laryea, but not sure how Richie is rated that much higher than a guy like Johnston.   

Ritchie threaded the ball through to David just before half and had David squared it over, Tajon was unmarked and would have had a tap in.

He made a nice little run in the box where Hoilett found him and put a dangerous ball across that was behind David, but where was Larin? 

He picked up the ball on our half with the Honduran defender right with him and just pulled away from him. Laryea showed so much pace.  This was the reason we got the penalty.  He got it all wrong taking the shot on 87th minute when he should have put it across the box.  On the whole though, he was pretty dynamic.  I think we're splitting hairs between Johnson, Davies and Laryea.  They were all good.

David and Larin, were not good at all.  I've seen enough to know both can be better.  I know most of you have already written 3 points on the board for Honduras in their home game.  50 years of history, Concacaf, gamesmanship, I get it.  I'm going to go out on a limb and say we get a win or a draw in Honduras.  We're the better team.

Edited by prairiecanuck
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29 minutes ago, apbsmith said:

Fair enough, for sure the criticism is justified just felt some was quite harsh. Him playing out the back I also don't think has always been one of the strongest part of his game. Something he will need to work on. 

Was just commenting on overal sentiment. Mood of the board prolly not as harsh if we win though. 

I was one who was quite harsh on Miller and I think the criticism was justified, he did make several glaring errors, at the end of the day none cost us but I think he really struggled! After a shaky start vs the US in the Gold Cup he settled in nicely and was winning me over, I also thought he was excellent for Montreal vs TFC last week, I had no problem with him starting and am not about to say he should never play for us again after a poor showing! In saying all of this I think Kennedy needs to start tomorrow!

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After the way Miller played in the Gold Cup I have no problem with him playing. He is not perfect but is still very capable. However, they should give Kennedy the start and see what he can do, but if he had to start again it wouldn’t be the end of the world, he is not great but is still capable to play there.

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Can someone confirm this: I remember a play in the 2nd half, before we tied it I believe, where Davies was sprung open down the left wing and David was making a run, seemingly open, down the center. I was screaming at my tv for Davies to play an early low cross/pass but he decided not too, kept running down the flank and it all fizzled to nothing. I know that Davies is amazing but sometimes I feel like he thinks he has to do it all himself…

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17 minutes ago, Addona said:

Can someone confirm this: I remember a play in the 2nd half, before we tied it I believe, where Davies was sprung open down the left wing and David was making a run, seemingly open, down the center. I was screaming at my tv for Davies to play an early low cross/pass but he decided not too, kept running down the flank and it all fizzled to nothing. I know that Davies is amazing but sometimes I feel like he thinks he has to do it all himself…

Yep I remember. He could have curled it into his path, but there’s a chance that the defender had it covered and the ball would have been collected by the keeper in order to get it around the defender. Still looked like it was worth an effort from the TV angle.

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Miller was solid in the GC but he looked too hyped up during the game .. never good for a defender. He will get more games and will play better but right now Kennedy is the better CB. Superior on the ball, passing, tackling, in the air and speed. On that great chance & save by Borjan it's very likely that Kennedy would have got his head to the ball before it went over Miller and to Vitoria/Honduran player. Scott is also a threat on corners and better defending against them/set pieces.

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Somewhere Henry is reading all this and laughing.  Its a 1-1 draw and the whipping boy isnt the guy who gave up the penalty, not the star offensive players who didnt produce, not Hutchinson who was our worst player on the pitch, not the coach who couldnt/didnt make any adjustments when the offense was very predictable in the second half. Hmmmmm.  Apbsmith is dead on.  

None of the backline was going to start all 3 games.  Henry will be getting a start too so sharpen the knives for him as well.   

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4 hours ago, narduch said:

These are the Fotmob ratings for our starters. Laryea as MOTM

I think we hyper analyze 1 or 2 mistakes sometimes. Miller had a good game overall 

 

Screenshot_20210904-092751_FotMob.jpg

I dont get why Larin scored so high?  Was it because of the goal?  When you score a goal on PK you shouldnt get anywhere near the same recognition that you get when you score a goal off of the run of play. 

Edited by Free kick
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3 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

I am a fan of Laryea, but not sure how Richie is rated that much higher than a guy like Johnston.   

Yeah. I’m taking these with a bucket of salt. Statistical analysis is good but sometimes overly simplistic and lacking context. 

As an example, David is rated low but is that entirely on him or should we give some allowances for the fact we stuffed the channels and the service to the forwards was sub par? 

Laryea made some important plays in the second half (and I’m also a fan) but I’m the first half, him being miss cast as as the player providing the link between the forwards and midfield was a major downfall.  Not the players fault but nonetheless…

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 watch the game again minus the emotion and you may come away with a different opinion re scoring chances and why we did not win the game. We generated enough decent chances to win..Larin & David were just not clinical. Got to take your chances when they come. Yes we were outnumbered in midfield but that's not why we tied. Look at the possession stats and then corners won which indicate we generated lots of pressure in the final 3rd.  The majority of our key players underperformed but yet we could & should  have won the game if we finished off just 1 of our many chances. 

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Long before they had online analytics I used to focus on an individual player while watching the match and break down his performance like a gridiron football coach would and then would get a pretty good read on a player via my "eye test" but also the total context of the match on general.  Other posters on here have done the same.  I don't do it as much anynore but when I have done it most recently, sometimes the comparison to fotmob or whoscored is similar but sometimes way off.   Suffice to say, I do consider the analytics but thet are never gospel to me, either.

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Is it just me or has anyone else just generally been unimpressed by David when he is up against against better competition?

He was pretty invisible for me against Honduras and Larin had to be the more active of the two dropping deep to get the ball. David did more of that in the second half and had a chance he probaably should bury but i was generally let down by his play. This was a similar issue against the US in November 2019. 

He's still very young but he's relied on heavily for our offensive output but doesn't seem to trouble better defenses that much.

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38 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Somewhere Henry is reading all this and laughing.  Its a 1-1 draw and the whipping boy isnt the guy who gave up the penalty, not the star offensive players who didnt produce, not Hutchinson who was our worst player on the pitch, not the coach who couldnt/didnt make any adjustments when the offense was very predictable in the second half. Hmmmmm.  Apbsmith is dead on.  

None of the backline was going to start all 3 games.  Henry will be getting a start too so sharpen the knives for him as well.   

Kamal was not the reason why we did not win. Plenty of blame to go around as you say but for the reasons I mentioned in my post Kennedy is the better defender. We play out from the back and that's where our offensive plays start. Scott can release the ball quickly and accurately to players like Davies and is a threat on corners so he can definitely contribute offensively

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3 minutes ago, VinceA said:

Is it just me or has anyone else just generally been unimpressed by David when he is up against against better competition?

He was pretty invisible for me against Honduras and Larin had to be the more active of the two dropping deep to get the ball. David did more of that in the second half and had a chance he probaably should bury but i was generally let down by his play. This was a similar issue against the US in November 2019. 

He's still very young but he's relied on heavily for our offensive output but doesn't seem to trouble better defenses that much.

We lacked a pure #9 like Cava who can knock some heads and occupy the CBs. Larin and David both like to play as a 2nd striker. We don't know what the instructions were from JH re who drops back more etc. If you watched David's last game for Lille he most definitely can drop back, win the ball and start plays he hasn't been deployed that way for the CMNT. Agree that his finishing was poor vs Honduras

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1 hour ago, Kadenge said:

Miller was solid in the GC but he looked too hyped up during the game .. never good for a defender. He will get more games and will play better but right now Kennedy is the better CB. Superior on the ball, passing, tackling, in the air and speed. On that great chance & save by Borjan it's very likely that Kennedy would have got his head to the ball before it went over Miller and to Vitoria/Honduran player. Scott is also a threat on corners and better defending against them/set pieces.

I completely agree and rate Kennedy above Miller.

I think when you factor in 3 games 6 days plus the fact Kennedy played late Sunday in Germany. I'm actually pretty pumped and happy we have a fresh Kennedy for USA away. 

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23 minutes ago, BearcatSA said:

Long before they had online analytics I used to focus on an individual player while watching the match and break down his performance like a gridiron football coach would and then would get a pretty good read on a player via my "eye test" but also the total context of the match on general.  Other posters on here have done the same.  I don't do it as much anynore but when I have done it most recently, sometimes the comparison to fotmob or whoscored is similar but sometimes way off.   Suffice to say, I do consider the analytics but thet are never gospel to me, either.

I do that frequently when watching the young Canadians when they finally get a chance to play for TFC, there are many critics on this very board, I actually take notes and will have something to counter the  " _____________young Canadian sucks" narrative!

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20 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

We lacked a pure #9 like Cava who can knock some heads and occupy the CBs. Larin and David both like to play as a 2nd striker. We don't know what the instructions were from JH re who drops back more etc. If you watched David's last game for Lille he most definitely can drop back, win the ball and start plays he hasn't been deployed that way for the CMNT. Agree that his finishing was poor vs Honduras

Larin and David isn’t a great partnership. Having seen them together now for 4 matches they don’t create anything together. 

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7 minutes ago, gator said:

I do that frequently when watching the young Canadians when they finally get a chance to play for TFC, there are many critics on this very board, I actually take notes and will have something to counter the  " _____________young Canadian sucks" narrative!

HAHA, after years of lurking here thats what finally got me to join the site.  I would watch TFC then listen to some of the opinions on here and wonder if I was watching the same game (ie Delgado>Osorio).  My wife bugs me now because I keep a pad beside me and every time I see a shitty play and yell at the tv, I write down a name.  Good plays usually speak for themselves..HAHA.  

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15 hours ago, Hawkguy said:

100% a penalty. 

I still disagree but I am obviously in the extreme minority here.
 

That being said Davies should be cutting into his defender every time he gets into the box and try drawing a penalty instead of a hopeful cross.  He burned the H right back on three occasions in the first half and using the example of the call against Tajon, would have earned at least one penalty.  Maybe we need more Concacaf in our squad.  

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