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New national women's soccer league


shermanator

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44 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

Yes, I suppose we can wait for 6 ardent feminists with hundreds of millions ready to throw away a fraction of their wealth. I forgot that possibility.

Potentially only takes one in a single entity type approach (see what Phil Anschutz did in an MLS context) and there are already two existing clubs involved so spare me the sarcasm.

Edited by Ozzie_the_parrot
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3 hours ago, narduch said:

Been wondering if this league squashes any chances of a Canadian NWSL team. My guess is it does.

I wonder if anyone was seriously working on a Toronto NWSL bid

 

 

 

 

I'd say there's a near-zero chance of Rovers being involved in this.  I don't think they have that kind of money to start with and they'd be competing in the same market as the Whitecaps team.  I think they've found their perfect level already (L1 for both men and women) and they're quite happy with it.

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31 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Potentially only takes one in a single entity type approach (see what Phil Anschutz did in an MLS context) and there are already two existing clubs involved so spare me the sarcasm.

Being contrarian sure gets your rocks off eh? Sure didn’t hear you backing these far fetched possibilities when it came to CPL.
 

If their current plan includes Ryan Reynolds being a good guy and getting back to them (why on earth you would put that in an article is beyond me) launching in 2 years sounds optimistic. 

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There are still likely a ton of moving parts but I agree with those who said that Sinclair and Matheson announced this league now to, at least in part, motivate potential ownership groups who may have been sitting on the fence or considering other options.

It's been pretty public knowledge that MLSE have been pursuing an NWSL franchise, and with Matheson from the GTA she knows that an MLSE-run NWSL team in Toronto would almost certainly overshadow any other team that tries to set up shop in the area, similar to the TFC-York United dynamic. Maybe this nudges MLSE towards the Canadian league?

Past that, I see this as Project 8 trying to strike while the iron is hot in Canadian soccer. Both the men's and women's national teams have set records for viewership over the past 18 months, and the 2023 Women's World Cup, 2024 Olympics and 2026 World Cup will keep soccer at the forefront of the public consciousness for the next four years.

Launching a new league is risky at the best of times, but now is the best time to do it.

I'm going to predict that MLSE gets involved, along with CPL ownership in Ottawa and Halifax. No idea who would front a Quebec team, Saputo hasn't ever really shown interest in the women's game, but this league has start with a Quebec-based team in order to avoid trying to add one several years in like the CPL.

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1 minute ago, RS said:

I'm going to predict that MLSE gets involved, along with CPL ownership in Ottawa and Halifax. No idea who would front a Quebec team, Saputo hasn't ever really shown interest in the women's game, but this league has start with a Quebec-based team in order to avoid trying to add one several years in like the CPL.

I would think Quebec City would have an easier time selling a new stadium to the public if they're announcing 2 teams for it and not just 1.

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6 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

I would think Quebec City would have an easier time selling a new stadium to the public if they're announcing 2 teams for it and not just 1.

That's a good point.

It's embarrassing that the second most populous province in the country doesn't have a team in our national men's league, so perhaps the creation of the women's league is what finally gets it over the line.

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4 hours ago, CanadaFan123 said:

Being contrarian sure gets your rocks off eh? Sure didn’t hear you backing these far fetched possibilities when it came to CPL...

You are talking nonsense. I frequently posted on here about how a league like CanPL could work if somebody like Phil Anschutz emerged who was willing to drop high eight or low nine figures by being the I/O for seven different franchises while keeping MLS going until it gained traction:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Anschutz#Soccer

Not massively likely to happen but given I can name someone who has done it for a soccer league in North America in relatively recent times it clearly isn't completely out of the realms of possibility.

What I actually questioned though was your assertion that:

6 hours ago, CanadaFan123 said:

...If we are being realistic anyone with that money to spend is going to put that towards a men’s club in the lead up to the 2026 World Cup. You’d have to be an idiot not to...

That's not a safe assumption at all and probably has more to do with what you would want to happen than anything else.

Edited by Ozzie_the_parrot
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Getting CIBC and Air Canada to come aboard as sponsors and having two teams ready is great, it really is. 

I get that they're tired of waiting and are trying to motivate potential owners to jump in now that hopefully, they have some momentum.

Like anything else, this comes down to money. Can they find people who have lots of money that want to be involved in the game?

Bob Young said he was able to get other investors to come on board the CPL because they had a path to stability purely down to the mediapro deal. Without that, it's just kind of a black hole of losing lots of money by running minor league sports. Without that deal, would some of those other owners have come aboard? Doubt it. I read reports last year that Mediapro has been very disappointed with viewership. 

If the women's league is missing that bedrock, it will be a harder sell to get investors on board. Losing lots of money isn't fun for anyone, no matter how altruistic or charitable they are.

2 of the CPL's 8 teams have been absolutely miserable from a financial perspective, drawing peanuts. (FC Edmonton and York). 

Some of the ownership groups of clubs in place were purely motivated to fill extra dates in their CFL stadiums (Winnipeg, Hamilton).

If the women's league can piggyback on CPL infrastructure (playing out of Cavalry, Pacific and Wanderers SSS stadiums), then that's great. But getting another 4-5 SSS stadiums in other locations isn't easy, ask the CPL about how that's going in Quebec or Saskatoon.

My other concern is supporter's fatigue. Angel City FC in L.A has killed it in NWSL and have great attendance. Obviously, a massive metro population can sustain a million pro teams. Can Halifax? Can Victoria? Can Winnipeg? I'm not so sure. 

I'm looking forward to seeing the specific female owners Matheson believes are ready to jump out of the woodwork to support female soccer. 

 

 

Edited by Soccerpro2
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3 hours ago, Soccerpro2 said:

....If the women's league is missing that bedrock, it will be a harder sell to get investors on board. Losing lots of money isn't fun for anyone, no matter how altruistic or charitable they are....

If what they really want isn't doable they could always have a BC/Alberta division and a Quebec-Windsor corridor one. Mainly bus travel in the regular season rather than flying all the time. Keep the season relatively short and use U-sports players etc treating it as a summer job for roster depth. Something that's worth bearing in mind is that the two founding clubs mentioned were also rumoured to be part of Joe Belan's would be D2 on the men's side of things and that had a women's league angle to it. The League One tier is basically just amateur so not surprised they are still looking for more.

Edited by Ozzie_the_parrot
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Ultimately the question will be....

Will women support this league? It's on women to be the primary supporters of professional women's sports.

If you go to most professional sports it ends up being men being the vast majority of fans in the stands. Unless women can get out in similar numbers as men do for the CPL, this league will not end up being successful. Especially because there will likely be calls to have equal pay to the men.

A national women's hockey league has just not been viable, costs are too high and interest too low.

This is great in theory, but lets see if the support comes forward.

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52 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

That's not a safe assumption at all and probably has more to do with what you would want to happen than anything else.

It’s a realistic assumption. Our women’s hockey team has been successful for years and our national league folded while having attendances similar to high school hockey. Men’s soccer has proven to be a viable market, is on the rise and will likely explode by 2026. It’s horrible timing if you’re having to compete for investors. Basically you’re asking them to choose between investing in a sure thing vs. an unproven pipe dream. In that instance you’re looking for angel investors.

Start a NWSL club ASAP and show its viable. That’s the route.

Edited by CanadaFan123
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1 hour ago, CanadaFan123 said:

It’s a realistic assumption. Our women’s hockey team has been successful for years and our national league folded while having attendances similar to high school hockey. Men’s soccer has proven to be a viable market, is on the rise and will likely explode by 2026. It’s horrible timing if you’re having to compete for investors. Basically you’re asking them to choose between investing in a sure thing vs. an unproven pipe dream. In that instance you’re looking for angel investors.

Start a NWSL club ASAP and show its viable. That’s the route.

We had a professional women's hockey league since 1997.  I worked in the arena with one of the original teams, who happened to have a female owner. What did it not have?  Sponsorships, TV coverage (not enough people would watch, according to TSN, which I heard from people time and time again), and people willing to get on board, mainly men.  When the league died in 2007, the women who played in the original NWHL revived it.  Why? Because men with money wouldn't.  I can see why Sinclair and Matheson would look to female ownership and having women in high positions in this new league.  Women tend not to see women and say "we can't do that".  They say "how can we do this?"  Men do say that, and this thread seems to be doing it as well. 

Easily 30-40% of the Cavalry fans who come to the game are women.  Why wouldn't they go to a women's game instead or as well?  The CPL owners were told they would lose money for at least 5-7 years.  Were the Blue Bombers, Bob Young, and Rob Friend "angel owners" then?  TFC has had the money and ability to start a women's team for a decade, as long as the NWSL has existed.  Why wait until after 2026 to put in an NWSL team when our CNWT players have been calling for a team there for years?  That's way too long.

I see a double standard here, which I don't understand.

 

Edited by Trois Reds
grammar, spelling
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It cannot be overstated how important it is having Air Canada onboard. Possibly the biggest hurdle to any national league in Canada is transportation costs. If some or all of that can be mitigated, that’s a good start.

Announcing with only 2/8 ownership groups seems premature, but then again there’s never going to be a better avenue to get your league into the public consciousness than the World Cup. Announce he ownership search during the men’s WC, then launch the full league with all 8 teams during the women’s WC. 

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25 minutes ago, Trois Reds said:

We had a professional women's hockey league since 1997.  I worked in the arena with one of the original teams, who happened to have a female owner. What did it not have?  Sponsorships, TV coverage (not enough people would watch, according to TSN, which I heard from people time and time again), and people willing to get on board, mainly men.  When the league died in 2007, the women who played in the original NWHL revived it.  Why? Because men with money wouldn't.  I can see why Sinclair and Matheson would look to female ownership and having women in high positions in this new league.  Women tend not to see women and say "we can't do that".  They say "how can we do this?"  Men do say that, and this thread seems to be doing it as well. 

Easily 30-40% of the Cavalry fans who come to the game are women.  Why wouldn't they go to a women's game instead or as well?  The CPL owners were told they would lose money for at least 5-7 years.  Were the Blue Bombers, Bob Young, and Rob Friend "angel owners" then?  TFC has had the money and ability to start a women's team for a decade, as long as the NWSL has existed.  Why wait until after 2026 to put in an NWSL team when our CNWT players have been calling for a team there for years?  That's way too long.

I see a double standard here, which I don't understand.

 

By and large a women’s pro league depends on women’s support. Yet the questions always seem to be pointed at men, which is counterproductive. Bill Burr put it best when talking about the WNBA - they have a league and women want it but don’t want to support it. Why? 

CPL investors weren’t angel investors because they had clear precedents to look at in the MLS clubs and an imminent World Cup. There are no comparables in women’s sport in this country.

Maybe women’s pro soccer is different and it can work. The NWSL is an incredible example and we should be having a team in it ASAP to show this can work. 

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47 minutes ago, Trois Reds said:

Easily 30-40% of the Cavalry fans who come to the game are women.  Why wouldn't they go to a women's game instead or as well?  The CPL owners were told they would lose money for at least 5-7 years.  Were the Blue Bombers, Bob Young, and Rob Friend "angel owners" then? 

No, they are investors.  Investors in most businesses don't expect to make money from day one and a soccer team is no different (quite probably even worse than many other business opportunities).  But we assume they do want to make money eventually, which is why many of us here watch things like attendance figures and sponsorship announcements with interest.  We hope the finances for the CPL can get into line before those promised 5-7 years are up.

49 minutes ago, Trois Reds said:

TFC has had the money and ability to start a women's team for a decade, as long as the NWSL has existed.  Why wait until after 2026 to put in an NWSL team when our CNWT players have been calling for a team there for years?  That's way too long.

I see a double standard here, which I don't understand.

 

It's not a double standard, it is a different business opportunity.  The word "soccer" is the same, but the product and business opportunities aren't.  By analogy, Tim Horton's and Bob's Coffee Shop are not equal business opportunities just because they are both doughnut shops.

Could someone make a financial go of a women's soccer league?  Possibly.  Does that mean that the CPL or TFC are somehow in the wrong because they haven't responded to calls for a women's league?  No, they signed up to field men's teams and arguably still aren't showing an operating (as opposed to franchise valuation) profit on that.  

I hope we can have a successful women's league.  It's wrong, however, to imply that the lack of one now is due to some sort of discrimination rather than to objective business reality.

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I wish them luck in this venture and hope it works out - but I still wonder if this is the best route to go vs establishing a few NWSL teams in big markets (the MLS model).   To me that was always the best path to getting pro women’s teams in a Canada and provide elite developmental pathways for amateur players in this country. 

I did chuckle at the Bill Burr reference. 
 

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59 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

...There are no comparables in women’s sport in this country... 

NWSL is starting to do reasonably OK south of the border and isn't a subsidy junky like the WNBA. The age old problem of making any pro league fly in Canada is putting eight stable clubs/franchises together. Reinventing the wheel rather than just using the NWSL isn't sensible from a pragmatic perspective but if I had to guess which of CanPL and Project 8 or whatever this would be league is called can carve out a viable niche and make a go of it in the immediate vicinity of the three MLS teams it would be the women. 

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1 minute ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

NWSL is starting to do reasonably OK south of the border and isn't a subsidy junky like the WNBA. The age old problem of making any pro league fly in Canada is putting eight stable clubs/franchises together. Reinventing the wheel rather than just using the NWSL isn't sensible from a pragmatic perspective but if I had to guess which of CanPL and Project 8 or whatever this would be league is called can carve out a viable niche and make a go of it in the immediate vicinity of the three MLS teams it would be the women. 

If you included my last paragraph I agree with you. NWSL is easily the best women’s sports league in North American history. Why reinvent the wheel? 

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4 hours ago, footballfreak said:

It cannot be overstated how important it is having Air Canada onboard. Possibly the biggest hurdle to any national league in Canada is transportation costs. If some or all of that can be mitigated, that’s a good start.

Announcing with only 2/8 ownership groups seems premature, but then again there’s never going to be a better avenue to get your league into the public consciousness than the World Cup. Announce he ownership search during the men’s WC, then launch the full league with all 8 teams during the women’s WC. 

Did you know that Westjet doesn't subsidize or provide free flights to CPL teams? I don't see Air Canada doing it, either.

Having a league sponsor is nice, but getting a significant financial lift from that sponsor is not the same thing.

Edited by Soccerpro2
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3 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

I wish them luck in this venture and hope it works out - but I still wonder if this is the best route to go vs establishing a few NWSL teams in big markets (the MLS model).   To me that was always the best path to getting pro women’s teams in a Canada and provide elite developmental pathways for amateur players in this country. 

I did chuckle at the Bill Burr reference.


 

Missed the Billy Gingertits reference.  Oops, did see it now. I heard that podcast but numbers are WAY UP in viewership since he said that. And they had 17K for the final in Portland.

 

Edited by Ed_S
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7 hours ago, footballfreak said:

It cannot be overstated how important it is having Air Canada onboard. Possibly the biggest hurdle to any national league in Canada is transportation costs. If some or all of that can be mitigated, that’s a good start.

Announcing with only 2/8 ownership groups seems premature, but then again there’s never going to be a better avenue to get your league into the public consciousness than the World Cup. Announce he ownership search during the men’s WC, then launch the full league with all 8 teams during the women’s WC. 

I'm sure it was said before during the CanPL launch, but getting Air Canada or West Jet on board is great. It's even better if their contribution is in kind, rather than a straight financial injection. If the league could get an airline and a hotel chain on board as major sponsorship partners, they could greatly mitigate the two things that make such a venture in Canada such a daunting task. Cut down travel and accommodation costs, in full, or by a significant percentage, and you're at the races from Day 1.

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