WCQ: Third Round - Window 1 (September 2-8, 2021)

[Ansem]

8 minutes ago, Shway said:

- MLS is better than the SPL - top to bottom, no question.

Which team are better than Rangers and Celtic? Those 2 could win CCL while we're still waiting on an MLS squad to do it. Remove the DPs and it's not as obvious as it seems. It's the eternal issue with MLS, until they win CCL all those comparisons falls flat

Not entirely agree or disagree with the rest of your argument but I still rate Arfield above Osorio and Kaye as of now. Arfield was a huge part of Rangers' run last season and he's way more consistent in my opinion.

Anyhow - I respect Herdman's decision to leave him out - gutsy decision...

 

Edited August 27, 2021 by Ansem

[GasPed]

41 minutes ago, Free kick said:

No he is not!!!   

It's all a matter of opinion of course.  It's been over a year since I've seen Arfield play, but if he's anything today like he was then, he is in my top 3 midfield choices (3rd behind Hutch and Eustaquio).  I also rate Wotherspoon highly based on my 20 minute (or so) eye test, and MAK is right there too because you never know what MAK you'll get (giveaway MAK or oh-so-good MAK).  Sam Piette is an excellent backup DM.  And then Hoilett and Oso would be next, with Fraser at the bottom of my form chart.  Having said all that, our depth in midfield is quite stunning and I'm not upset about Arfield's absence really.  We have plenty of cover for him.

Edited August 27, 2021 by GasPed

[Sal333]

15 minutes ago, Shway said:

This is a lot of has been talk. Arfield is clearly out his prime. The MLS guys are in theres.

A few points:

- MLS is better than the SPL - top to bottom, no question.
- MLS has a higher attendance than SPL. 
- Kaye, and Osorio are nearly on the same wages as Arfield(difference is the pounds). That's good for being in a salary cap league.
- Rangers have loosely played in Champions league. Big reach
- Played for Burnely in the EPL 4 seasons ago now. A whole World Cup ago.

At the end of the day, nobody should not your preference/affinity for Arfield.
I'm just living in the reality that he's not important to the CMNT.

He is right about Arfield being better than Piette but then they're two different types of midfielders.

[Shway]

3 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Which team are better than Rangers and Celtic? Those 2 could win CCL while we're still waiting on an MLS squad to do it. Remove the DPs and it's not as obvious as it seems. It's the eternal issue with MLS, until they win CCL all those comparisons falls flat...

 

TFC could've won it....RSL could've won it....Montreal could've won it. It's hypothetical fantasy to say Rangers or Celtic "could win the CCL". What I won't do is under estimate how good LigaMX is and their players, so much technical sauce, which you most definitely won't see in the SPL.

There's a reason why Mexico has been consistently ranked high, and why Scotland has been consistently ranked low/struggling to qualify for major tournaments. 

It's the league. You can't say remove the DP's, that's like counter arguing and saying remove the salary cap and Inter Miami would win the CCL.

Which teams are better?...Seattle, Revolution or SKC - take your pic. 
 

[Shway]

2 minutes ago, Sal333 said:

He is right about Arfield being better than Piette but then they're two different types of midfielders.

They are two different players. But I don't think anyone was comparing those two players. I'm not disrespectful. 

[Ansem]

8 minutes ago, Shway said:

TFC could've won it....RSL could've won it....Montreal could've won it. It's hypothetical fantasy to say Rangers or Celtic "could win the CCL". What I won't do is under estimate how good LigaMX is and their players, so much technical sauce, which you most definitely won't see in the SPL.

There's a reason why Mexico has been consistently ranked high, and why Scotland has been consistently ranked low/struggling to qualify for major tournaments. 

It's the league. You can't say remove the DP's, that's like counter arguing and saying remove the salary cap and Inter Miami would win the CCL.

Which teams are better?...Seattle, Revolution or SKC - take your pic. 
 

Most people "would confidently expect" Rangers and Celtic to win it while you still can't say that for MLS.

You touch on salaries - Is Bradley really worth what he's earning? Salaries are inflated due to DPs and clubs paying a premium for guys who'd never get that salary in Europe.

Not convince that the depth and bench from SPL is that much weaker than MLS. DPs vs good players? maybe comparable but not the rest. Most MLS starting XI would be competitive but a few injuries later and the drop in level is obvious, that's another reason why they get punished in CCL

Edited August 27, 2021 by Ansem

[frmr]

2 minutes ago, Shway said:

They are two different players. But I don't think anyone was comparing those two players. I'm not disrespectful. 

What about me saying I preferred Millar over Cavallini confused you? Millar is in pretty damn good form with Basel and Cavallini is injured and not even traveling yet...

That fucking confused emoji button is so irritating. If you disagree with something, explain why, don't just cop out with that stupid emoji.

[Sal333]

2 minutes ago, Shway said:

They are two different players. But I don't think anyone was comparing those two players. I'm not disrespectful. 

Well, the person you were responding to compared Arfield to all our midfielders. If Herdman had left out Piette and inserted Arfield I think it would be an improvement on the team. And with Hutch and Eustaquio we wouldn't be missing the only thing Piette brings: defensive awareness.

[gator]

1 minute ago, Sal333 said:

Well, the person you were responding to compared Arfield to all our midfielders. If Herdman had left out Piette and inserted Arfield I think it would be an improvement on the team. And with Hutch and Eustaquio we wouldn't be missing the only thing Piette brings: defensive awareness.

As I mentioned I think all of the MLS midfielders are good, I would just prefer Arfield in a midfield 3 over all of them, just my opinion and hopefully all goes well and Arfield's omission is just an afterthought, if it doesn't go well and we get beat due to losing the midfield battle I may have more to say on the issue!😀

[Sal333]

6 minutes ago, gator said:

As I mentioned I think all of the MLS midfielders are good, I would just prefer Arfield in a midfield 3 over all of them, just my opinion and hopefully all goes well and Arfield's omission is just an afterthought, if it doesn't go well and we get beat due to losing the midfield battle I may have more to say on the issue!😀

Reading between the lines I think Herdman kept the midfield that brought the team to the show so as not to disrupt the chemistry.

I understand his point but I've seen all of of CF Mtl's games and Piette isn't a regular on that team. They're using him sparingly. His only quality is his defensive play. As I said with Hutch and Eustaquio there we won't really need Piette. Also I don't think he made a forward pass all season long. This guy only plays the ball to his backline.

Edited August 27, 2021 by Sal333

[Free kick]

Oh no, not again,  the fetish continues here with the british based players.   Arfield, Millar and anyone else who is based professionally in England or scotland.   With a certain segment of ppl here: your talents, skills, abilities dont matter if you  ply your trade in england or scotland.   You could be playing on the reserve side of some third division side but yes, you have to be higher up on the pecking order than anyone one else.   And nope, talent doesnt matter because if you based in england or scotland, you the greatest and you are of a superior race.  Only the English soccer players count and your success as a national side depends on it.   The rest of colonialist are ignornant and dont understand soccer.
 

Here is teh truth.   if you good,  you deserve to be called up.  And thats what Herdman (who is english born and raised) is doing.  We have all seen Arfield.  Especially in the last WCQ campaign.  He has been surpassed by others who are better. Simple as that.  

Edited August 27, 2021 by Free kick

[gator]

8 minutes ago, Free kick said:

Oh no, not again,  the fetish continues here with the british based players.   Arfield, Miller and anyone else who is based professionally in England or scotland.   With a certain segment of ppl here: your talents, skills, abilities dont matter if you  ply your trade in england or scotland.   You could be playing on the reserve side of some third division side but yes, you have to be higher up on the pecking order than anyone one.   And nope, talent doesnt matter because if you based in england or scotland, you the greatest and you are of a superior race.  Only the English soccer players count and your success as a national side depends on it.   The rest of colonialist are ignornant and dont understand soccer.
 

Here is teh truth.   if you good,  you deserve to be called up.  And thats what Herdman (who is english born and raised) is doing.  We have all seen Arfield.  Especially in the last WCQ campaign.  He has been surpassed by others who are better. Simple as that.  

Really? I don't know which posters you are referring to but your dislike of anything British is a little OTT, who is this Miller who plies his trade over there btw, have I missed someone?

[Shway]

30 minutes ago, frmr said:

What about me saying I preferred Millar over Cavallini confused you? Millar is in pretty damn good form with Basel and Cavallini is injured and not even traveling yet...

That fucking confused emoji button is so irritating. If you disagree with something, explain why, don't just cop out with that stupid emoji.

Depends on what you classify as “good form” for Millar. He’s nowhere near in better form than the wing options we have in camp. Davies, Buchanan, Hoilett, Laryea. 

I thought it was weird you would say Millar for Cavallini…and not someone like Tesho. You know like-for-like. That was the confusion. Feel like guys just mention Millar at this point to get the cool points from the senior. He literally hasn’t done anything for the CMNT in 11 apps.

Im not surprised that Millar isn’t  there, he  wasn’t at the Gold Cup which was a missed opportunity to stake his claim. 

For me personally, I would even have Corbeanu in the squad before Millar. Or even see Richie Ennin. Because at this point we’re mentioning guys just to be in the team with no expectation to play.

[Free kick]

Deleted

Edited August 27, 2021 by Free kick

[The Beaver 2.0]

Late to the party, but I am very pleased and not at all surprised by the selection. The only real question, in my mind, was IF Herdman would name Arfield to the team.  And I am glad he left him out, not for any reason other than team chemistry and morale. The fact that Arfield, if we are to trust Wheeler's reporting, is willing and ready to pull on the jersey should we need him is the best case scenario in my mind.  While Arfield's quality is no longer head and shoulders above cats like Kaye and Oso, he would still be a strong addition to the squad BUT not at all costs.

Respecting the guys who got us to the Ocho, preserving and honouring that culture, maintaining team chemistry and morale, is far more important than having Arfield in the mix.  My guess is that a guy like Scott will only respect Herdman for this decision, and will prove an even more valuable player if and when he returns to the squad.  And the rest of the squad will also respect Herdman for this decision.  Herdman has handled this perfectly.  And if Arfield felt snubbed in any way, then wouldn't we (most of us, at least) question his character?  He is a very good player.  I am so glad he is still in the mix; I suspect we will need him yet.

[gator]

4 minutes ago, Free kick said:

f*** O**

Well in 17 years on this board I have had a few good disagreements but never, ever been insulted with profanity like that, that's your best argument? I didn't think I would ever have to put anyone on ignore let alone a long time member! Cheers!

[grigorio]

Until today I didn’t realize any of us would rate Osorio higher than Arfield but I’ve learned something new. Love Osorio’s heart but to me Scotty was the engine and one of the biggest reasons we beat the US 2-0 that day and definitely a top 3 midfielder in the team. To each their own and love that we can have these arguments now vs whose half warm body can fill in a spot. 

Edited August 27, 2021 by grigorio

[Joe MacCarthy]

 

9 minutes ago, The Beaver 2.0 said:

Late to the party, but I am very pleased and not at all surprised by the selection. The only real question, in my mind, was IF Herdman would name Arfield to the team.  And I am glad he left him out, not for any reason other than team chemistry and morale. The fact that Arfield, if we are to trust Wheeler's reporting, is willing and ready to pull on the jersey should we need him is the best case scenario in my mind.  While Arfield's quality is no longer head and shoulders above cats like Kaye and Oso, he would still be a strong addition to the squad BUT not at all costs.

Respecting the guys who got us to the Ocho, preserving and honouring that culture, maintaining team chemistry and morale, is far more important than having Arfield in the mix.  My guess is that a guy like Scott will only respect Herdman for this decision, and will prove an even more valuable player if and when he returns to the squad.  And the rest of the squad will also respect Herdman for this decision.  Herdman has handled this perfectly.  And if Arfield felt snubbed in any way, then wouldn't we (most of us, at least) question his character?  He is a very good player.  I am so glad he is still in the mix; I suspect we will need him yet.

^What he said

Edited August 27, 2021 by Joe MacCarthy

[trc2014]

It’s wild how light we are at forward.  5 called, with Cav already injured.  We are one additional injury away from a real concern.  I feel like it’s been said a ton, but the additional lack of call of Miller and Theo seems like an oversight (I’m pretty confident they wouldn’t be on the standby list - that will be full of MLS players).

[king1010]

33 minutes ago, grigorio said:

Until today I didn’t realize any of us would rate Osorio higher than Arfield but I’ve learned something new. Love Osorio’s heart but to me Scotty was the engine and one of the biggest reasons we beat the US 2-0 that day and definitely a top 3 midfielder in the team. To each their own and love that we can have these arguments now vs whose half warm body can fill in a spot. 

That was 2 years ago though and a whole lot of injuries and missed games(for club and country) since. 

Edited August 27, 2021 by king1010

[dyslexic nam]

3 minutes ago, king1010 said:

That was 2 years ago though and a whole lot of injuries and missed games(for club and country) since. 

Yeah, that is the part I don’t get.   The same people willing to overlook his absences on the basis of him being older and games/travel taking their toll on him physically are the same ones that seem to think he is exactly the same player as he was in peak form a few years ago.  I won’t pretend to watch enough Rangers to know for sure, but it seems reasonable to think that guys like Oso and MAK May have closed the gap to the point where Arfield is no longer the difference maker he was - at least in comparison to the alternates.   And I trust that Herdman is in the best position to assess this.  

[El Hombre]

I find the thought of Celtic or Rangers in the CCL a funny proposition.  Imagine an SPL team playing  Club America or Leon in Mexico with a ref from El Salvador...I put the over/under at 2.5 red cards by half time.

[prairiecanuck]

1 hour ago, The Beaver 2.0 said:

Late to the party, but I am very pleased and not at all surprised by the selection. The only real question, in my mind, was IF Herdman would name Arfield to the team.  And I am glad he left him out, not for any reason other than team chemistry and morale. The fact that Arfield, if we are to trust Wheeler's reporting, is willing and ready to pull on the jersey should we need him is the best case scenario in my mind.  While Arfield's quality is no longer head and shoulders above cats like Kaye and Oso, he would still be a strong addition to the squad BUT not at all costs.

Respecting the guys who got us to the Ocho, preserving and honouring that culture, maintaining team chemistry and morale, is far more important than having Arfield in the mix.  My guess is that a guy like Scott will only respect Herdman for this decision, and will prove an even more valuable player if and when he returns to the squad.  And the rest of the squad will also respect Herdman for this decision.  Herdman has handled this perfectly.  And if Arfield felt snubbed in any way, then wouldn't we (most of us, at least) question his character?  He is a very good player.  I am so glad he is still in the mix; I suspect we will need him yet.

For me it's not Kaye and Oso it's Frasier and Wotherspoon.  Those 2 were rewarded.  3 games in 9 days is intense.  Injuries to Oso and Kaye could put us in a bind. I don't know why Arfield wasn't included.  Arfield could have sat on the bench for 3 games if we didn't need him.  If we pick up some injuries or a red we could regret such a thin roster.  We weren't limited to 23.  The US has a roster of 26.  The decision's been made.  I'm sure we'll be fine.  The doomsday scenario has a small percentage chance of playing out.  Still, I wish we would have had a bigger roster.   I would have had Akindele on the squad as well.  Is Cavallini even fit enough to play?

[frmr]

2 hours ago, Shway said:

Depends on what you classify as “good form” for Millar. He’s nowhere near in better form than the wing options we have in camp. Davies, Buchanan, Hoilett, Laryea. 

I thought it was weird you would say Millar for Cavallini…and not someone like Tesho. You know like-for-like. That was the confusion. Feel like guys just mention Millar at this point to get the cool points from the senior. He literally hasn’t done anything for the CMNT in 11 apps.

Im not surprised that Millar isn’t  there, he  wasn’t at the Gold Cup which was a missed opportunity to stake his claim. 

For me personally, I would even have Corbeanu in the squad before Millar. Or even see Richie Ennin. Because at this point we’re mentioning guys just to be in the team with no expectation to play.

Fair.

[The Beaver 2.0]

1 hour ago, prairiecanuck said:

For me it's not Kaye and Oso it's Frasier and Wotherspoon.  Those 2 were rewarded.  3 games in 9 days is intense.  Injuries to Oso and Kaye could put us in a bind. I don't know why Arfield wasn't included.  Arfield could have sat on the bench for 3 games if we didn't need him.  If we pick up some injuries or a red we could regret such a thin roster.  We weren't limited to 23.  The US has a roster of 26.  The decision's been made.  I'm sure we'll be fine.  The doomsday scenario has a small percentage chance of playing out.  Still, I wish we would have had a bigger roster.   I would have had Akindele on the squad as well.  Is Cavallini even fit enough to play?

I agree entirely about the 23 roster. I don't get it either.