2021 Canadian Premier League Attendance

[Kent]

21 hours ago, grasshopper1917 said:

I wonder if the league has a contingency plan for York and Edmonton? Not saying there is no hope for either club however the numbers are pretty woeful.

It seems like the York United contingency plan is to keep things the same. Originally they wanted to build a new stadium in a pretty populous area, further away from Toronto proper. They didn't get enough attendance in their little stadium that is in the city limits, so they have given up on investing in a stadium to try to pull fans to games.

I wish they would just go through with their original plans, even if they reduced it from a 15k stadium to a 10k or 8k stadium. I don't know much about Vaughan or wherever it would end up, but I bet they would get more fans than they currently do.

[Mikmacdo]

20 hours ago, narduch said:

The contingency plan for now is probably to keep the salary cap low

York are built to be a selling team. They will likely makeup for the difference in ticket sales when they sell Abzi, Wright, Max and Johnston within the next year or two. Even if they sold an extra thousand season tickets thats only about 150k. 

[ted]

33 minutes ago, Mikmacdo said:

York are built to be a selling team. They will likely makeup for the difference in ticket sales when they sell Abzi, Wright, Max and Johnston within the next year or two. Even if they sold an extra thousand season tickets thats only about 150k. 

To be fair, no one seriously believes that this a top-tier league so every club should be selling players eventually. Back in 2019 the PFC owners were very clear that they wanted to be a stepping stone for any player who has what it takes to move up the ladder.

[Aird25]

I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think selling players at this level of football is all that common, and I don't think we'll see much income until there's more than just Joel Waterman out there demonstrating that CPL players are worth an investment. We may see players move up, but I don't know that we can expect transfer fees at this point.

It would be silly to abandon the GTA or Edmonton though. Both teams just need some on field success.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Don't think there are any easy answers for York United. They are in a prime location in subway and highway access terms so it's difficult to make a case that the location is the issue now that the previously absurd pitch dimensions have been fixed.

The main problem is that people in the GTA have a long track record of not supporting low budget pro sports leagues. It was frankly bizarre that Paul Beirne & Co were pitching the concept of launching multiple suburban clubs in the GTA aiming at 6,500 on home crowds with rosters stocked primarily with Canadian players. The CPSL would have worked a lot better than it did in the late 90s if there was a market for that sort of thing in a GTA context.

1122 for the latest game may be generously announced. If you are interested in exploring that sort of thing freeze the clip in this link at 0:56. The seating needs to be about a third full for the number to be credible in actual crowd terms:

https://twitter.com/onesoccer/status/1442489206870183938

What probably keeps things going for now until after the 2026 World Cup is that 10 year commitments were made at launch. Longer term the sensible thing to do in an Ontario context if nothing changes would be a relocation to somewhere like Kitchener-Waterloo, London or Windsor where people do show up in large numbers for lower budget sports events like junior hockey. Emulating what happened in Halifax in multiple mid-sized markets is what really needs to happen over the next 5 years or so.

 

Edited September 28, 2021 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[SoccMan]

8 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Don't think there are any easy answers for York United. They are in a prime location in subway and highway access terms so it's difficult to make a case that the location is the issue now that the previously absurd pitch dimensions have been fixed.

The main problem is that people in the GTA have a long track record of not supporting low budget pro sports leagues. It was frankly bizarre that Paul Beirne & Co were pitching the concept of launching multiple suburban clubs in the GTA aiming at 6,500 on home crowds with rosters stocked primarily with Canadian players. The CPSL would have worked a lot better than it did in the late 90s if there was a market for that sort of thing in a GTA context.

1122 for the latest game may be generously announced. If you are interested in exploring that sort of thing freeze the clip in this link at 0:56. The seating needs to be about a third full for the number to be credible in actual crowd terms:

https://twitter.com/onesoccer/status/1442489206870183938

What probably keeps things going for now until after the 2026 World Cup is that 10 year commitments were made at launch. Longer term the sensible thing to do in an Ontario context if nothing changes would be a relocation to somewhere like Kitchener-Waterloo, London or Windsor where people do show up in large numbers for lower budget sports events like junior hockey. Emulating what happened in Halifax in multiple mid-sized markets is what really needs to happen over the next 5 years or so.

 

Totally agree but need to find ways to make at least one CPL in Toronto work somehow , but yes need to get into cities like London maybe Kitchener and Windsor I think there is a lot of potential in going into these smaller markets.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

No crowd numbers so far for the games played in Halifax and Winnipeg on Sep 29th:

https://canpl.ca/matchcentre/bkyg4bb4imc666uo8qhw1cr9w/highlights

https://canpl.ca/matchcentre/bjs1u9y4cpjzqarq2puo5mnmc/highlights

991 announced in Edmonton:

https://canpl.ca/matchcentre/bjuq6kkwgzyd7j8nmg17zo6j8/highlights

Edited September 30, 2021 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

No number so far for Valour vs FCE:

https://canpl.ca/matchcentre/bl41pmmq2ci3rs9ed3uh43uok/highlights

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

No number this time for the Y9 game but looked like low three digits actual unfortunately judging from the Onesoccer coverage as commented upon by others in the match thread:

https://canpl.ca/matchcentre/bl6sp2hdap83y3c9wbykg2uc4/highlights

Also no number for Ottawa vs Forge:

https://canpl.ca/matchcentre/bl9qng6gh3bozm041je4s9st0/highlights

Edited October 4, 2021 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

2600 announced for Valour vs Cavalry:

https://canpl.ca/matchcentre/blcjrbffi20vxpl5ow2lluvx0/highlights

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

No number so far for Halifax vs Forge;

https://canpl.ca/matchcentre/blfgkmot6bs2yuv8qewqpyyvo/highlights

And also for FCE vs Pacific:

https://canpl.ca/matchcentre/bljs65833y3o8hl4pmsxuzuac/highlights

Edited October 7, 2021 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Cblake]

2 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

No number so far for Halifax vs Forge;

https://canpl.ca/matchcentre/blfgkmot6bs2yuv8qewqpyyvo/highlights

TFC has also been known to leave the attendance off the game summary for a few homes match a few times this season, I can only imagine why LOL 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Strange thing is that's the attendance you would expect them to be most keen on highlighting. Definitely looks like they have decided to stop reporting that stat and the Valour one on the weekend was an aberration

[grasshopper1917]

3 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Strange thing is that's the attendance you would expect them to be most keen on highlighting. Definitely looks like they have decided to stop reporting that stat and the Valour one on the weekend was an aberration

For what its worth I was at the game looked about 90% capacity which usually works out in the high 5000's to 6000. 'Unofficial'   lol

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

York vs Ottawa announced as 970:

https://canpl.ca/matchcentre/blmjamfu1be66zvm0q6ylcil0/highlights

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

3102 announced for Cavalry vs FCE:

https://canpl.ca/matchcentre/blpglngm0ll0plyljhemijztg/highlights

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

No number so far for Halifax vs Pacific:

https://canpl.ca/matchcentre/blscizle5815eulm4fekuahp0/highlights

[Watchmen]

7 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

No number so far for Halifax vs Pacific:

https://canpl.ca/matchcentre/blscizle5815eulm4fekuahp0/highlights

If there's no numbers announced yet, you can probably hold off on  the post for a bit. The match highlights can go in the thread for that match.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Also nothing announced so far for Valour vs Forge:

https://canpl.ca/matchcentre/blv3mlno69a5ty0jrlassodg4/highlights

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

580 announced for FCE vs Ottawa:

https://canpl.ca/matchcentre/blxunc8ir42ebdeqspnlaljx0/highlights

[grasshopper1917]

8 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

580 announced for FCE vs Ottawa:

https://canpl.ca/matchcentre/blxunc8ir42ebdeqspnlaljx0/highlights

Surely Edmonton has to be re-located for 2022 - no? I mean Fath has been at this for a decade and its pretty clear there is no support in Edmonton whatsoever. 600 fans wont even pay the canteen workers and referees   lol

[Watchmen]

5 hours ago, grasshopper1917 said:

Surely Edmonton has to be re-located for 2022 - no? I mean Fath has been at this for a decade and its pretty clear there is no support in Edmonton whatsoever. 600 fans wont even pay the canteen workers and referees   lol

The team won't be relocated. And I'll continue to say - don't read too much in to attendance this year. Having said that, it's probably a bit of a red flat as to how late in the year you can push the games. That's something the league will need to consider.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

6 hours ago, grasshopper1917 said:

Surely Edmonton has to be re-located for 2022 - no? I mean Fath has been at this for a decade and its pretty clear there is no support in Edmonton whatsoever. 600 fans wont even pay the canteen workers and referees   lol

There aren't many obvious alternatives given the stadium requirements that the league has, so I don't think there will be any relocations in the short term. The only support that really matters where next season is concerned is whether Tom Fath is willing to keep covering the losses. Ditto with the Greenpark Homes people with the likely in reality even worse supported York United.

It's probably only Halifax that has crowd levels that actually could fully cover the bills right now, and it's not necessarily safe to assume that its the worst attended club that is going to have the ownership group that is most likely to pull the plug at the first sign of turbulence. Being in it for a decade with fan interest that has always been lukewarm at best is a sign that the Fath brothers are strongly emotionally invested.

The one I'd actually be most wary of is the Valour due to the Blue Bombers community ownership likely not being emotionally invested in soccer and the strong rumours that they are spending well under the cap but I'm confident the talk of 10 year commitments at the outset means that there is no easy painless way out right now for any of the groups and that the league is likely to be around until at least 2026. If they were going to fold, COVID gave them a face saving way out but they didn't take it.

Edited October 13, 2021 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Watchmen]

10 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

There aren't many obvious alternatives given the stadium requirements that the league has, so I don't think there will be any relocations in the short term. The only support that really matters where next season is concerned is whether Tom Fath is willing to keep covering the losses. Ditto with the Greenpark Homes people with the likely in reality even worse supported York United.

It's probably only Halifax that has crowd levels that actually could fully cover the bills right now, and it's not necessarily safe to assume that its the worst attended club that is going to have the ownership group that is most likely to pull the plug at the first sign of turbulence. Being in it for a decade with fan interest that has always been lukewarm at best is a sign that the Fath brothers are strongly emotionally invested.

The one I'd actually be most wary of is the Valour due to the Blue Bombers community ownership likely not being emotionally invested in soccer and the strong rumours that they are spending well under the cap but I'm confident the talk of 10 year commitments at the outset means that there is no easy painless way out right now for any of the groups and that the league is likely to be around until at least 2026. If they were going to fold, COVID gave them a face saving way out but they didn't take it.

I would not worry about Valour surviving as a club under the current management. They put 14 or more events in to the stadium and that's pretty valuable to the community ownership. If you want to talk about whether Valour will ever competitively spend vs other teams, that's a different discussion.  But I wouldn't worry about the club going anywhere.