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2021 Canadian Premier League Attendance


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11 hours ago, Kent said:

Try to take each post as a fresh start. All he said about single entity that it was "more of a single entity than they are letting on".

Fact: There is a player draft.

Fact: There is a salary cap.

Fact: Bob Young is an investor for 2 teams.

Fact: There is a shared business (CSB I think it is called) seemingly for revenue sharing.

Fact: All teams have a shared jersey deal with Macron.

Fact (I think): The league is asking for expansion fees for new teams, or whatever they want to call it.

This doesn't scream completely independent club model to me.

Additionally, CPL bought League 1 Ontario. I don't think that CPL buying League 1 Ontario would have necessarily been a priority for Valour, HFX Wanderers, or Pacific.

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17 hours ago, Kent said:

Try to take each post as a fresh start. All he said about single entity that it was "more of a single entity than they are letting on".

Fact: There is a player draft.

Fact: There is a salary cap.

Fact: Bob Young is an investor for 2 teams.

Fact: There is a shared business (CSB I think it is called) seemingly for revenue sharing.

Fact: All teams have a shared jersey deal with Macron.

Fact (I think): The league is asking for expansion fees for new teams, or whatever they want to call it.

This doesn't scream completely independent club model to me.

All of those facts are also part of pro sports leagues that are also Not single entity though and they don't make a league single entity(NHL for instance has some of those components). The actual definition of single entity does not fit the CPL and it never will because its simply not. In order not to drag this thread off topic here's the thread on this forum :

https://www.canadiansoccernews.com/forums/topic/76407-cpls-independent-club-league-model-not-single-entity/

Back on topic, attendance in Halifax was 3446 today.

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On 9/5/2021 at 11:43 PM, Haligonian#1 said:

Well, I have been a season ticket holder with the HFX Wanderers since 2019. I not only attend matches, but buy at least a couple of hundreds dollars worth of team merchandise every year, and I also attend team special events, encourage friends to attend matches, etc. So I think that makes me a supporter of Canadian soccer and the CPL. However, while I appreciate where we have been and where we are going as a professional league, I think that there are rough patches ahead and there should be room for constructive debate. Not all teams are in great shape. I myself have been pleasantly surprised by the support in Halifax. Before the first ball was ever  kicked in the CPL, I would have considered an average attendance of 2,500 fans per match in Halifax to have been a successful first year campaign.  I think we got lucky that the Wanderers Ground was made available by the municipality to the franchise. I don't think the team would be nearly as successful in any of the half dozen other locations that the team could have chosen/negotiated. That being said, when I see cities/urban areas having 3-4 times the population of Halifax not being able to muster half of the attendance that is being recorded in Halifax, then I think there are sustainability issues for the league long term. I want this league to succeed, but I am a realist as well. 

 

 

You obviously didn't read or understand what I wrote so I will put it another way. I don't think any normal fan of the CPL believes that it is a finished product, has peaked or is cruising along with not a worry in the world. What I don't like is having everything dissected and every flaw made out to be the imminent end or downfall of the league, nor do I want the constant worship of the US system that he obviously has brought up here. He can go idolize the USSF on one of their forums. But what I despise most about that fucking halfwit is that he still claims to be such a great supporter of Canadian soccer and yet he hasn't been to a single CPL game. I'd like to know why he deems himself above the league he loves to shit on so much. Have an answer for me Ozzie? I highly doubt it. 

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On 9/5/2021 at 11:43 PM, Haligonian#1 said:

Well, I have been a season ticket holder with the HFX Wanderers since 2019. I not only attend matches, but buy at least a couple of hundreds dollars worth of team merchandise every year, and I also attend team special events, encourage friends to attend matches, etc. So I think that makes me a supporter of Canadian soccer and the CPL. However, while I appreciate where we have been and where we are going as a professional league, I think that there are rough patches ahead and there should be room for constructive debate. Not all teams are in great shape. I myself have been pleasantly surprised by the support in Halifax. Before the first ball was ever  kicked in the CPL, I would have considered an average attendance of 2,500 fans per match in Halifax to have been a successful first year campaign.  I think we got lucky that the Wanderers Ground was made available by the municipality to the franchise. I don't think the team would be nearly as successful in any of the half dozen other locations that the team could have chosen/negotiated. That being said, when I see cities/urban areas having 3-4 times the population of Halifax not being able to muster half of the attendance that is being recorded in Halifax, then I think there are sustainability issues for the league long term. I want this league to succeed, but I am a realist as 

Double post.

Edited by longlugan
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I have no interest in pursuing a semantic argument over what was being implied by "more of a single entity than they are letting on". The bottom line is this. MLS has been by far the most successful professional league in the history of North American soccer. It would be very foolish of CanPL not to take on board many of the aspects of how MLS is structured that have worked well and have enhanced its stability.

There have been many indications that CanPL has in fact done so and that is a good thing. Once that became increasingly clear back in 2019 my concerns over what was happening with the league decreased considerably as I was confident at that point that even the struggling clubs like Y9 and FCE would not be one and done due to what would probably have been written into the initial 10 year commitment (i.e. what would be referred to as the franchise agreements in other contexts).

Attendances in normally difficult weeknight timeslots for the Canadian Championship in 2019 and 2021 have demonstrated that visiting MLS teams provide by far the best draw domestically as an away team for CanPL teams and in the one market where fans have had a choice between the two leagues fans overwhelmingly stuck with MLS with very few completely new fans being drawn to the CanPL team to the complete exclusion of support for the MLS team. People on here who are very anti-MLS in their mentality are in no way representative of the mainstream of Canada's soccer community. 

Edited by Ozzie_the_parrot
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9 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

I have no interest in pursuing a semantic argument over what was being implied by "more of a single entity than they are letting on". The bottom line is this. MLS has been by far the most successful professional league in the history of North American soccer. It would be very foolish of CanPL not to take on board many of the aspects of how MLS is structured that have worked well and have enhanced its stability.

There have been many indications that CanPL has in fact done so and that is a good thing. Once that became increasingly clear back in 2019 my concerns over what was happening with the league decreased considerably as I was confident at that point that even the struggling clubs like Y9 and FCE would not be one and done due to what would probably have been written into the initial 10 year commitment (i.e. what would be referred to as the franchise agreements in other contexts).

Attendances in normally difficult weeknight timeslots for the Canadian Championship in 2019 and 2021 have demonstrated that visiting MLS teams provide by far the best draw domestically as an away team for CanPL teams and in the one market where fans have had a choice between the two leagues fans overwhelmingly stuck with MLS with very few completely new fans being drawn to the CanPL team to the complete exclusion of support for the MLS team. People on here who are very anti-MLS in their mentality are in no way representative of the mainstream of Canada's soccer community. 

See...that's your problem you dipshit. I am far from anti-MLS. In fact I was a TFC season ticket holder for the first 8-9 years and only stopped because it became too difficult to attend all the home games. I now am a Forge FC season ticket holder since their inception because Hamilton is my home town and that's where my loyalty lays. Having said that I still support TFC as well as our other Canadian MLS teams and I closely follow all the Canadians in the league. MLS is a flawed league/system (but you'll never admit that) but so is the CPL. I still believe that the CPL is the way to go for the future of young Canadian players but I don't think to the exclusion of the MLS necessarily. One day the the 3 Canadian teams may join the CPL...or they may not. Who knows...I'm not a fortune teller. Either way...I'm a Canadian soccer supporter and I don't crap on the MLS. I have put my money where my mouth is...have you? Ever had season tickets to TFC? Ever even been to a single CPL game? Btw...this is far from a semantic argument. I am full on calling you out for being a USSF lackey and a supporter of convenience in regards to Canadian footie. I highly doubt you can prove me wrong but I welcome your attempt. 

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16 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

I have no interest in pursuing a semantic argument over what was being implied by "more of a single entity than they are letting on". The bottom line is this. MLS has been by far the most successful professional league in the history of North American soccer. It would be very foolish of CanPL not to take on board many of the aspects of how MLS is structured that have worked well and have enhanced its stability.

There have been many indications that CanPL has in fact done so and that is a good thing. Once that became increasingly clear back in 2019 my concerns over what was happening with the league decreased considerably as I was confident at that point that even the struggling clubs like Y9 and FCE would not be one and done due to what would probably have been written into the initial 10 year commitment (i.e. what would be referred to as the franchise agreements in other contexts).

Attendances in normally difficult weeknight timeslots for the Canadian Championship in 2019 and 2021 have demonstrated that visiting MLS teams provide by far the best draw domestically as an away team for CanPL teams and in the one market where fans have had a choice between the two leagues fans overwhelmingly stuck with MLS with very few completely new fans being drawn to the CanPL team to the complete exclusion of support for the MLS team. People on here who are very anti-MLS in their mentality are in no way representative of the mainstream of Canada's soccer community. 

There is no doubt that York faces challenges that other CPL teams do not playing in a market where their is a MLS team in TFC. This should never take on a us vs. them mentality, just enjoy and support the team you want, the one you enjoy the most. 

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Pacific vs Cavalry announced as 2350:

https://canpl.ca/matchcentre/bjjw4au1rwq1m2lx8u20otkpg/highlights

Interesting to see how they have reconfigured the bleachers at one end to fence in the SG and expand the beer garden standing area. Sensible adjustments to reflect preferences of the regular spectators.

Edited by Ozzie_the_parrot
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4 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Pacific vs Cavalry announced as 2350:

https://canpl.ca/matchcentre/bjjw4au1rwq1m2lx8u20otkpg/highlights

Interesting to see how they have reconfigured the bleachers at one end to fence in the SG and expand the beer garden standing area. Sensible adjustments to reflect preferences of the regular spectators.

Not sure they have fenced in the SG section as much as it’s simply the type of stand they are using for them. 

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Been a fairly rough year at the gates. At some point if you want a fully professional league you are going to need more then 2-3k showing up for games. I know the pandemic is a factor however I just flicked past the Blue Bombers game and the stadium was filled. I doubt Bob Young and company are going to bleed cash forever. Halifax and CPL vs MLS matches aside it has been a real struggle to get fans through the gate.

 

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8 hours ago, grasshopper1917 said:

Been a fairly rough year at the gates. At some point if you want a fully professional league you are going to need more then 2-3k showing up for games. I know the pandemic is a factor however I just flicked past the Blue Bombers game and the stadium was filled. I doubt Bob Young and company are going to bleed cash forever...

They could always adjust the financial model to better fit crowds of that size. If players like Max Ferrari are standouts is there any need to be using an agency to approve so many U23 imports who are receiving many of the best contracts? Would a shorter more PDL like four month mid May to mid Sep format similar to what the 1987-92 CSL used to have work better? If stadium requirements were lowered a bit could enough new teams be attracted in east and west conferences to limit the need for so much air travel?

Having said that something that dawned on me yesterday is a scenario where the CMNT qualifies for Qatar but the owners see no significant attendance bump or major financial windfall through CSB and start to question what 2026 would actually do for them given MLS stadia in Toronto and Vancouver and MLS and overseas players would probably primarily be involved with little tangible CanPL involvement. Hopefully they would see a significant attendance bump and financial windfall obviously but either way that Qatar qualification scenario would potentially shift forward the timeline on which even patient investors start to make some strategic decisions.

Edited by Ozzie_the_parrot
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19 hours ago, grasshopper1917 said:

Been a fairly rough year at the gates. At some point if you want a fully professional league you are going to need more then 2-3k showing up for games. I know the pandemic is a factor however I just flicked past the Blue Bombers game and the stadium was filled. I doubt Bob Young and company are going to bleed cash forever. Halifax and CPL vs MLS matches aside it has been a real struggle to get fans through the gate.

 

For a league in its third year of existence that 95% of the country's populace doesn't even know exists, the CPL is a state I'm sure the owners are comfortable with. The league gaining more mainstream appeal, which is going to be achieved through coverage on the main sports channels is what will bring about the biggest overall attendance bump in the future. You also have to consider the "success" clubs so far like Halifax, what will happen if and when they build their permanent 8,000-12,000 seat stadiums and they fill said stadium consistently? That will essentially usher in CPL 2.0 not unlike MLS' trajectory, causing more investors in municipalities like KW, London to take notice about how to start clubs successfully and hit the ground running. 

 

Edited by Macksam
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57 minutes ago, Stanley said:

No.  It didn't work then.

Will be interesting to see how crowds hold up this season as the weather worsens over the next few weeks. For whatever reason it has not always been easy to get crowds out for soccer in Canada in April and October and several of the stadiums in a CanPL context have no cover when it rains.

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6 hours ago, Macksam said:

For a league in its third year of existence that 95% of the country's populace doesn't even know exists, the CPL is a state I'm sure the owners are comfortable with. The league gaining more mainstream appeal, which is going to be achieved through coverage on the main sports channels is what will bring about the biggest overall attendance bump in the future. You also have to consider the "success" clubs so far like Halifax, what will happen if and when they build their permanent 8,000-12,000 seat stadiums and they fill said stadium consistently? That will essentially usher in CPL 2.0 not unlike MLS' trajectory, causing more investors in municipalities like KW, London to take notice about how to start clubs successfully and hit the ground running. 

 

Well let’s hope these owners stick with it this time and give the league a chance to grow and not throw in the towel like in years past with pro soccer teams and leagues in Canada.

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Every sports league on this planet were, and are, terrified that the general public has learned to live without them.  It's a reasonable concern I'd say.  Things were going good for the sports/entertainment industry for a long, long, time.  It realy does feel like people have relearned their social priorities, and for some those priorities have become less abstract than the collective experience of sport.  Have become closer to home as it were.  However.. 

None of the investing partners in this league expected to make money on this venture any time soon.  I'm also very sure they didn't expect a pandemic to pound their other interests either.  Big picture, everybody is financialy hurting after COVID.  Whether your name is Bob Young, or Winnipeg Football Club, or Atletico Madrid.  

All the above being said, the league looks like it'll be expanding, and I doubt that's happening because there are sooo many stupid business people out there who have endured the hardships of this pandemic and are just waiting to be taken advantage of.  Oh, and the Bombers have drawn over 30K for two of their home fixtures this season already. 

It might not feel like it just now, DELTA varient be damned, but maybe things may be turning back to normal sooner rather than later.  And that has to be good news for the CPL.

That and the CMNT lighting it up in WCQing.  😊

 

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