GC: Canada vs The USA - Sunday, July 18th, 5pm Eastern / 2pm Pacific - Kansas City

[An Observer]

On Pasher, I was really looking for him to cross into the box as we have seen how devastating that can be with Houston.  I agree with Herdman's instructions there as he had a couple of opportunities he turned down.

[Lansdude]

Fraser played well, you guys are dumb. He's a C-grade Toni Kroos.

 

 

 

[Gian-Luca]

9 minutes ago, An Observer said:

I personally thought Miller had an exceptional match.  I was watching on Fox and didn't come on here until after the match ended was surprised at all the hate for him early on.   I think he is a great option behind Kennedy going forward.

I also a little surprised at the negativity of some of the posters here.  We played the #2 side in Concacaf off the park in their home park and that was after going down 1-0 on a brain fart the first 20 seconds which could have caused a lesser side to collapse.  We lost 2 players to injury up front in the process.  And we were missing 5 to 6 regulars who were are best players plus some other players like Millar and Adekugbe who could have seen the pitch.  Sure, they had a B- side but our B+ side was much better.  That bodes well for the future.

Yes, we didn't score and we need to improve in the final third to a quality team bunkering; and we need to not switch off like we did on comedy of errors.  But on most other days, we tie or win this match.  That is progress.

All that being said, wouldn't a Flores or Dias look good in the hole behind the strikers?  We really could use a creative no. 10 who could open defenses.  With Davies on the left and Buchanan on the right and David and Larin in the middle, that is the piece we are really still missing.  Hopefully, those two guys see that as with them on board in the next year or two once they develop some more, that would make a big difference.

 

Agree with all of this, and I too was watching on Fox and only read this game thread afterwards, and had the same surprised reaction at people seemingly wanting to burn an effigy of both Miller & Fraser in particular (both of whom are not likely starters for us when everyone is available, it needs to be said). I'm not sure that I agree with Fraser getting the highest marks per the MLS website player ratings or as Kristian Jack was saying post-match, but neither did I want his head on a platter the way some of the posts here were suggesting. I didn't actually see much cause for hatred towards anyone in a white jersey in this match, and I was pleasantly surprised by the back three & Vitoria holding his own at his age on 2 days rest after such a mediocre outing.

It showed to me that we can raise our game because I thought overall we looked better in this game than against lesser opposition. We need to continue to play more of these teams, so whoever we play next round, it will be a big test for us as we need to prove we can beat a team we aren't favoured against in this tourney/meaningful match (which only has happened once in recent years, at home against the US in 2019). But the upward trajectory seems clear.

[Gian-Luca]

 

[Gian-Luca]

This Galindo article contains a quote from Herdman indicating that the Akinola injury sub was "precautionary":

https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/three-canada-takeaways-from-gold-cup-defeat-to-usmnt

As an aside, not sure why Galindo says "Akinola hasn’t been a reliable starter like Larin, which is why the latter is the biggest concern for Herdman."

I mean, this was his first start, and it was cut short after about 20 minutes from a cheap US tackle, maybe wait until at least plays 45 minutes as a starter and is a total disaster before making this judgment?

[toontownman]

2 hours ago, El Hombre said:

In all honesty, I don't understand the vitriol.  Does he go overboard with the Canadian homerism?  Sure.  But I much prefer that and a little emotion than someone who is just narrating what is happening.  I have eyes, I can see who has the ball.  I want to hear some emotion and some passion.

Sky Sports in the UK started an alternative commentary option a decade or so ago with fans doing the commentary for that. I don't want catchphrases and just wrong takes due to overt bias clouding judgement. 

Passion is fine but not when it detracts from the game itself. For me they do too often for my liking. I want commentators that are professional and compliment what's going on and bring us as fans closer to what's happening on the pitch, in the players/coaches heads with fact and solid takes not biased conjecture or opinions screaming injustice and over the top reactions to get soundbites. Sometimes the calls are just plain wrong. Myself or people I'm watching with can do all of that. There were several instances today where bias effected ability to judge calls on the pitch and personal opinion misled the viewer. Leave the bulk of the opinion to the half time show and panel. That's their job. 

Now I absolutely like Wheeler in the studio and on Onesoccer today. I don't like bagging on him or Terry but they are far better in the studio than in the commentary booth imo and OneSoccer can do better and it puts off more people than not imo. Not something they need when trying to encourage football fans to subscribe. Maybe general sports fans wont mind it 🤷‍♂️

Could just be my conditioning and what I grew up with too. Maybe people find it refreshing. Absolutely to each their own, that is just my opinion as I should have specified in my original post but give me the other onesoccer commentators more often. Except Hume who is a bit too serious, but I take that back because he literally scares the shit out of me! 

[Ruud]

We won’t be favored to win the quarter finals against either Costa Rica or Jamaica.  That game will be a tougher test than today by far.  

[prairiecanuck]

3 minutes ago, Ruud said:

We won’t be favored to win the quarter finals against either Costa Rica or Jamaica.  That game will be a tougher test than today by far.  

You're just a full of positivity.  Eustaquio will be back.  Hopefully Larin is back and plays a full 90.   We should have had at least the draw and we didn't play our best.  I expect us to rise to the occasion in a tougher quarter final and we will have a decent chance against either Costa Rica or Jamaica.

[toontownman]

11 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

Agree with all of this, and I too was watching on Fox and only read this game thread afterwards, and had the same surprised reaction at people seemingly wanting to burn an effigy of both Miller & Fraser in particular (both of whom are not likely starters for us when everyone is available, it needs to be said). I'm not sure that I agree with Fraser getting the highest marks per the MLS website player ratings or as Kristian Jack was saying post-match, but neither did I want his head on a platter the way some of the posts here were suggesting. I didn't actually see much cause for hatred towards anyone in a white jersey in this match, and I was pleasantly surprised by the back three & Vitoria holding his own at his age on 2 days rest after such a mediocre outing.

It showed to me that we can raise our game because I thought overall we looked better in this game than against lesser opposition. We need to continue to play more of these teams, so whoever we play next round, it will be a big test for us as we need to prove we can beat a team we aren't favoured against in this tourney/meaningful match (which only has happened once in recent years, at home against the US in 2019). But the upward trajectory seems clear.

Thought Miller was rocked hard and really shaky the first 20 minutes but came up BIG after. 

Fraser and the majority of the team likewise I guess. Fraser looked very slow and out of place early on but had a decent last 40. Piette was much better imo but he can also drop clangers Henry would get crucified for.

I really think Cavallini had a great impact and spurred our team to work harder closing down and subsequently turn over the ball.

I get the worry on the overhype when we are playing the American B team but we also are missing game changers in Davies, David, Eustaquio, Arfield, Atiba, Kaye, Kennedy, arguably Wotherspoon, Borjan, Adekugbe too. Ultimately it is not about who isn't here. It is about who is. Putting the pieces we left out today back in if we play the US again in this tournament. I am confident we can get a better result and learn from this. 

[BearcatSA]

2 hours ago, Bison44 said:

It was the more subtle homerism.  The Dan cole method, you remember... it would be deep into the 2nd period before you realized that the Habs werent playing the game by themselves.  Lafleur with an excellent rush, Belevieu is skating magnifcently, what a great block by Robinson, big save Dryden, Tremblay and Gainey are working so hard out there. Oh and the score is 2-0 for the black hawks.   

Who is Dan Cole?  Is it Danny Gallivan or Bob Cole?  Or both:  if I am missing the joke here on the name play, well, shame on me. ☺️  

And with those Canadiens teams featuring Lafleur, Robinson, Gainey, Dryden, Tremblay, and others, they lost very games during their hey day,so if Chicago had a 2 nil lead after the second, they would have lost anyways in the end.  

 

[Bison44]

Dan Cole.....they were 2 different people you say??? Hmmmm..I was mainly listening on the radio, thought it was only one guy.  

[BearcatSA]

5 minutes ago, toontownman said:

Piette was much better imo but he can also drop clangers Henry would get crucified for.

I saw one poor foward pass in the first half that the receiver should have done a better job of coming back to and shielding to prevent interception but I didn't see anything else egregious.  In the past, Henry's "clangers" have usually involved going for a big play challenge or clearance and either getting skinned, conceding a needless foul, or scoring an own goal.  I haven't seen that in Piette at d-mid.

[BearcatSA]

6 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Dan Cole.....they were 2 different people you say???

Uh huh

[DeRo_Is_King]

1 hour ago, Ruud said:

Not finishing our chances is why we lost. With David and Davies and others, we make our own luck.  I think it’s fair to critique our finishing and our opening minute with this team.  4 or 5 big chances in front of goal against New England’s keeper.  Nuff said

Speaking of chances, we all know the ref denied us the clear chance that would have likely allowed us to draw. It's hard to capitalize on chances you are due but don't get, especially when the other team can get away with persistent and clear fouls. I agree that we missed David and Davies, but I am extremely pleased with what this group did today. With normal officiating or an actual willingness to use VAR, we would not have lost. 

[DavemTFC]

2 hours ago, trc2014 said:

One thing I haven’t seen mentioned is that I think the US losing Zimmerman really hurt them.

Great shout. They might not have settled for bunkerball so early on if Zimmerman was still there to put out fire, that's how good he is. Either way, looks like Berhalter bet on us not being able to score against a deep, set defense and it paid off. He's exposed a weakness of ours, because a team capable of beating a bunker would have created far more than just the one biggish chance Tajon had in the second half.

This is the least important game we're going to have against a big CONCACAF team for at least a year, so it was good to learn some stuff today. Also encouraging to see Hoilett and Cavallini look at their brightest in a long time. Was tough to see Akinola go down in tears just when he was finally hitting the form he showed last year, hope he isn't out too long for club and country

[Gian-Luca]

20 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Dan Cole.....they were 2 different people you say??? Hmmmm..I was mainly listening on the radio, thought it was only one guy.  

Largely from two different eras. Bob Cole called Paul Henderson’s goal on CBC radio and the “They’re going home! Yeah! They’re going home!” Flyers Red Army game but largely it was Danny Gallivan inventing words while calling Habs games for CBC tv in the 60s and 70s while Foster’s son Bill Hewitt called Leaf games at that time (Foster came out of retirement for CTV to call Henderson’s goal and continually mispronounce Yvan Cournoyer’s name in 1972). Bob Cole became the main guy for Toronto and main network playoff games in the 80s  and 90s and even early into this century 

[TOcanadafan]

51 minutes ago, Ruud said:

We won’t be favored to win the quarter finals against either Costa Rica or Jamaica.  That game will be a tougher test than today by far.  

Have you watched any of the games involving these two teams?  Neither looked great in their second game. Suriname outplayed Costa Rica much of the game, and Guadeloupe gifted Jamaica a late winner. 

[Obinna]

I wouldn't say I am as negative as @Ruud, but I am not far off it. I havr had a few hours to digest now and I am still as disappointed as I was at the final whistle, if not a little pissed off. 

In the grande scheme of things, it doesn't really matter because Costa Rica or Jamaica is 6 in one half dozen in the other. 

However, what I find upsetting is that we didn't get the result, again. Yes we controlled the game for 75 minutes, but that kinda makes it worse that we didn't equalize. We didn't even threaten to equalize really, save for the curling effort from Buchanan. If we were testing the keeper or hitting the post, crossbar, then I can live with not getting the result, but we didn't test Turner. Credit to the American defense and all that, of course, but we gotta be disappointed, I think. At least I am.

[BearcatSA]

52 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

Largely from two different eras. Bob Cole called Paul Henderson’s goal on CBC radio and the “They’re going home! Yeah! They’re going home!” Flyers Red Army game but largely it was Danny Gallivan inventing words while calling Habs games for CBC tv in the 60s and 70s while Foster’s son Bill Hewitt called Leaf games at that time (Foster came out of retirement for CTV to call Henderson’s goal and continually mispronounce Yvan Cournoyer’s name in 1972). Bob Cole became the main guy for Toronto and main network playoff games in the 80s  and 90s and even early into this century 

The funny thing is that neither guy was a shill when the home team was really sucking.  Listen to Gallivan's commentary as the Habs were getting upset in a sweep  by the young Oliers in 1981 or Cole calling Canada's loss to Finland in the bronze medal game in Nagano in 1998:  both clearly pissed with the respective performances.

[toontownman]

1 hour ago, BearcatSA said:

I saw one poor foward pass in the first half that the receiver should have done a better job of coming back to and shielding to prevent interception but I didn't see anything else egregious.  In the past, Henry's "clangers" have usually involved going for a big play challenge or clearance and either getting skinned, conceding a needless foul, or scoring an own goal.  I haven't seen that in Piette at d-mid.

Yeah, probably take that with a pinch of salt as I have never been a big fan.

He didn't go full in for the challenge that led to the goal, which is actually quite unlike Piette. Had one poor give away in the second half but his recover straight after was immense. Generally I don't like his lack of pace and in some past games he has given away silly fouls and the ball by being too hung ho. He looked pretty good today though and has the last few Canada appearances. 

[BearcatSA]

18 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I wouldn't say I am as negative as @Ruud, but I am not far off it. I havr had a few hours to digest now and I am still as disappointed as I was at the final whistle, if not a little pissed off. 

In the grande scheme of things, it doesn't really matter because Costa Rica or Jamaica is 6 in one half dozen in the other. 

However, what I find upsetting is that we didn't get the result, again. Yes we controlled the game for 75 minutes, but that kinda makes it worse that we didn't equalize. We didn't even threaten to equalize really, save for the curling effort from Buchanan. If we were testing the keeper or hitting the post, crossbar, then I can live with not getting the result, but we didn't test Turner. Credit to the American defense and all that, of course, but we gotta be disappointed, I think. At least I am.

I'm like you.  At the end of the day, we should have been able to be top of the group.  I really felt Larin should have done better with that gift right after halftime but Turner made an easy save.  Cavallini just doesn't have that separation burst to make more of the great opportunity he had.

[BearcatSA]

56 minutes ago, toontownman said:

Yeah, probably take that with a pinch of salt as I have never been a big fan.

He didn't go full in for the challenge that led to the goal, which is actually quite unlike Piette. Had one poor give away in the second half but his recover straight after was immense. Generally I don't like his lack of pace and in some past games he has given away silly fouls and the ball by being too hung ho. He looked pretty good today though and has the last few Canada appearances. 

He's a situational role player, not unlike Osorio and others in this squad.  He has a part to play, like the others.

Edited July 19, 2021 by BearcatSA

[DeRo_Is_King]

I'm staying positive about this one. It honestly felt like our guys couldn't generate a lot of chances because the ref just let almost every U.S. foul go. And that's not hyperbole. When Laryea gets football tackled in the box, of course he won't be able to get a shot off. That's why the game has rules. They just weren't enforced tonight. Not much you can do about that. We know how Concacaf is. If this was Qatar 2022, VAR is used at the very least. But Concascrap? Crickets. It's an absolute joke. So, under conditions like that, don't get down on yourselves. With David and Davies in the lineup, we're banging in multi-goal leads against the U.S. And unfortunately, because of how bad the officiating is, we can only feel comfortable with multi-goal leads at this point. That's a tall order for any team. 

[Obinna]

30 minutes ago, DeRo_Is_King said:

I'm staying positive about this one. It honestly felt like our guys couldn't generate a lot of chances because the ref just let almost every U.S. foul go. And that's not hyperbole. When Laryea gets football tackled in the box, of course he won't be able to get a shot off. That's why the game has rules. They just weren't enforced tonight. Not much you can do about that. We know how Concacaf is. If this was Qatar 2022, VAR is used at the very least. But Concascrap? Crickets. It's an absolute joke. So, under conditions like that, don't get down on yourselves. With David and Davies in the lineup, we're banging in multi-goal leads against the U.S. And unfortunately, because of how bad the officiating is, we can only feel comfortable with multi-goal leads at this point. That's a tall order for any team. 

On the VAR thing, I wonder what's behind not even taking a look. I mean, how do you explain that? It is really beyond belief. Is there a way for teams to launch formal complaints for that kind of thing? I know that's a little over the top considering the circumstances, but what if this was WCQ? Do we just have to live it? Is there any recourse for officials not following protocol? Were they within their right to not check? The clear and obvious standard is for the VAR decision, not the decision to check VAR, right? More questions than answers at the moment, but I feel that if the decision to check VAR is subjective (seems to be based on this), what's the point of having the technology?

[Obinna]

The other thing too is the majority of pundits and fans on both sides of the boarder think this was a pen. That is why it is hard to believe that the ref, the ARs and the VARs all felt there was no need to double check, despite the long injury break. Weird that everyone else watching thought otherwi$e....