Canada's Octo Schedule

[RS]

1 minute ago, Ansem said:

That's a personal wish, not prédiction.

 

Just adding that playing Mexico in BC place in beyond naïve 

The two November home games will almost certainly both be in Eastern Canada to reduce travel.

[Alex]

3 hours ago, Tyson M said:

sorry to interrupt the arguing over why the majority of these games shouldn't be at the national teams home stadium in Toronto, but do we know when the stadiums for the september (home and away) match will be announced? I have looked/read through most of this thread(and the travel one). When will the places & times become concretely in place?

I’m positive Vic said in an interview months ago when they had to decide if qualifiers can even go ahead with covid, etc that venues need to be put into place a month before the game. I’d expect by August 1st at the latest we should know where we are playing. 

[narduch]

1 minute ago, Alex said:

I’m positive Vic said in an interview months ago when they had to decide if qualifiers can even go ahead with covid, etc that venues need to be put into place a month before the game. I’d expect by August 1st at the latest we should know where we are playing. 

But that isn't what happened in the group stage. Some venues where chosen very last minute.

[CanadianSoccerFan]

2 hours ago, Watchmen said:

No, the Mexico's Federation setting up a friendly game at a neutral site would still fall under the Mexican Federation's responsibility.  And your original statement was about which games the ban would impact, not where the chants occurred.  If there's additional chants at the Gold Cup, further sanctions against Mexico hosting  home games might occur. 

 

Where the chants occur and where the punishment gets applied are connected or at least they should be.

The CONCACAF Nations League semis and finals were both marred by the chant and had stoppages due to the chant and these punishments are coming out after those events.  Yet it's all a bit too convenient that the events being cited for the punishment are the Olympic qualifiers from months ago and a neutral site friendly (no mention of Nations League).  If CONCACAF had to punish them for actions in a CONCACAF competition like Nations League then it would make sense for Mexico to lose their massive crowd advantage in the next CONCACAF competition, the Gold Cup.  It would clearly be a sporting punishment to Mexico to be stripped of that advantage.  But of course the economic pain would be all on CONCACAF's side.  

My point is that next month it is more than likely that 70K Mexicans will be at Mexico's first game at the Gold Cup.  They will chant puto throughout the game.  There will be a warning, there will be a stoppage, but after all that CONCACAF will welcome all of them back into the stadium for the next game (and every game after that) with open arms because they want the money!  You can be a bigot as long as CONCACAF gets its money.  Any banning of bigoted fans will  be put on hold until someone other than CONCACAF is the economic beneficiary.  

 

[nfitz]

1 hour ago, narduch said:

But that isn't what happened in the group stage. Some venues where chosen very last minute.

They weren't announced until the very last minute.

Let's see where (if) the CFL is playing in July ...

[TGAA_Star]

If we are allowed to come back to Canada and our federal government signs off on our national team being able to play our home games back here in Canada, then no doubt the fan attendance at first will probably be limited to a set number just as a test run. But then if COVID numbers continue to go down, then the more fans in stadiums for our home games. It just all comes down to what our government says at the end of the day. I am sure we all want the guys playing back home.

[Unnamed Trialist]

I'm not an expert in Mexican insults, but it seems very over the top to sanction them for that. It's a chant like any other, no worse that "you fat bastard" or "cabrón", used in Spain. Now you can spin it how you want, someone latched onto it and they're milking it to the max. 

Inside every Mexican knows this which is why they repeat it, it is so far from the worst thing heard they know it's someone's vendetta or the like. 

They should just insult concacaf or Vic directly every time to replace it. 

[dyslexic nam]

24 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I'm not an expert in Mexican insults, but it seems very over the top to sanction them for that. It's a chant like any other, no worse that "you fat bastard" or "cabrón", used in Spain. Now you can spin it how you want, someone latched onto it and they're milking it to the max. 

Inside every Mexican knows this which is why they repeat it, it is so far from the worst thing heard they know it's someone's vendetta or the like. 

They should just insult concacaf or Vic directly every time to replace it. 

And honestly, Vic or the association would take it and. I thing more would happen.   But in this case, the chant has been deemed offensive in a way that isn’t acceptable.  Given the connotations of the chant, I have no problem with FIFA and CONCACAF taking the steps to necessary to eliminate it - especially when FIFA has taken an explicit stand on trying to get bigotry and intolerance out of the game.   Inn no know that folks could argue they are a bit selective in their application of those principles (awarding 2022 to Qatar being the most obvious example of turning a blind eye) but just because they aren’t doing everything doesn’t mean they shouldn’t do something.  

[CanadianSoccerFan]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I'm not an expert in Mexican insults, but it seems very over the top to sanction them for that. It's a chant like any other, no worse that "you fat bastard" or "cabrón", used in Spain. Now you can spin it how you want, someone latched onto it and they're milking it to the max. 

Inside every Mexican knows this which is why they repeat it, it is so far from the worst thing heard they know it's someone's vendetta or the like. 

They should just insult concacaf or Vic directly every time to replace it. 

From everything I've read, the meaning is somewhat different in Mexico than other Spanish speaking countries.  The best comparison is f@ggot.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

2 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I'm not an expert in Mexican insults, but it seems very over the top to sanction them for that. It's a chant like any other, no worse that "you fat bastard" or "cabrón", used in Spain. Now you can spin it how you want, someone latched onto it and they're milking it to the max. 

Inside every Mexican knows this which is why they repeat it, it is so far from the worst thing heard they know it's someone's vendetta or the like. 

They should just insult concacaf or Vic directly every time to replace it. 

I would probably agree on principle, it is an insult not really a targeted one.  But I don't think the measures are more draconian than other places.  Similar stuff at Brighton ("We can see you holding hands" or "Does your boyfriend know you're here?") has got individuals fined and banned and fanbases threatened with closed doors.  As has calling Spurs fans the "Y-word" when many self-identify as such. 

Whether I agree or not, Mexico has been threatened with these measure for a long while.  Supporters chose to ignore that. 

Edited June 19, 2021 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[SpursFlu]

Why don't they just come up with a new insult? how about

Wooooooo.. extremely masculine person who would never prostitute his body or be submissive

That should make everyone happy. But i don't think Mexicans are know for their sarcasm 

 

 

 

 

[Ansem]

13 hours ago, RS said:

The two November home games will almost certainly both be in Eastern Canada to reduce travel.

Yet the US play games across their country... it's dumb that we don't either.

[apbsmith]

On 6/17/2021 at 9:06 PM, Ansem said:

Honduras and El Salvador in Montreal? Hell no, the visitors would get a strong support. For me this is good for Halifax (grass)

Panama at BMO = good

Costa Rica and Mexico in Edmonton in January? I'd prefer Calgary 

USA at BC place = Good

Jamaica at BMO? Montréal makes more sense

*For those worrying about "ticket sales"... wake up. Do you want to sell tickets or do you want to get to Qatar?

Get to Qatar and selling tickets afterwards will be much easier with all the friendlies and competitions leading to 2026

Not worried about ticket sales. The reality is the CSA has shown this has been of interest in the past as our federation books show lack of funds. 

Obviously I assume everyone on here wants best possible option for success. 

I hope CSA has the same vision as you. I am optimistic they do now, with making Qatar the #1 priority which would be best possible logistics for success. 

I am in complete agreement with you, major sponsors, friendly ticket sales after making the world cup is where the real $ is, instead of a one off. 

Edited June 19, 2021 by apbsmith

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

2 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

It's a chant like any other, no worse that "you fat bastard" or "cabrón", used in Spain.

1) Cabrón is purely insult without the homophobic undertones.

 

2) May I remind you that we did get sanctioned for the "You fat bastard" chant. The thing is, we only get decent crowds at BC Place and to a lesser extend at BMO Field. And this chant is only done at BC Place so FIFA haven't  heard us do it multiple times a year for years on end.

Edited June 19, 2021 by Olympique_de_Marseille

[Cblake]

Could see USA at Canada at the Big O, being a World Cup venue, last cycle all the games went to Vancouver because of the BMO renovations. Logistics will play a big part of where Canada plays. The three game windows changes the approach  greatly, especially if the home game is between two trips into Central America. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

I would probably agree on principle, it is an insult not really a targeted one.  But I don't think the measures are more draconian than other places.  Similar stuff at Brighton ("We can see you holding hands" or "Does your boyfriend know you're here?") has got individuals fined and banned and fanbases threatened with closed doors.  As has calling Spurs fans the "Y-word" when many self-identify as such. 

Whether I agree or not, Mexico has been threatened with these measure for a long while.  Supporters chose to ignore that. 

I think the point is that a country steeped in the game has its tradions, for better or worse, and fans don't just change because someone in an office got offended.

Now I know from being at games back when in England that you can change language, I was at Loftus Rd when my kid was little, maybe 15 years ago, and fans swore like hell then turned and apologized constantly, that was when they were trying to clean up some stands. It seemed so unnatural. In Spain it's hard to stop "cabrón", which could be bastard but other things, because it works, it's like a drumroll on goal kicks and fans feel good yelling it. It is not even directed at the keeper really (neither is "puto" strictly, if it were they'd say it more often and not wait for the goal kick). 

I guess I'm saying this sounds like a way to level the Concacaf playing field if anything else. 

[Yoginess]

3 hours ago, Cblake said:

Could see USA at Canada at the Big O, being a World Cup venue, last cycle all the games went to Vancouver because of the BMO renovations. Logistics will play a big part of where Canada plays. The three game windows changes the approach  greatly, especially if the home game is between two trips into Central America. 

After some thought. I just can’t see this happening. I think Canada US is definitely at BC Place. There are 3-4 games that make sense to potentially play in Montreal but this is the only one that clearly makes sense out west. They will definitely play at least one game out here and I think this is it

[Watchmen]

16 hours ago, CanadianSoccerFan said:

 

Where the chants occur and where the punishment gets applied are connected or at least they should be.

The CONCACAF Nations League semis and finals were both marred by the chant and had stoppages due to the chant and these punishments are coming out after those events.  Yet it's all a bit too convenient that the events being cited for the punishment are the Olympic qualifiers from months ago and a neutral site friendly (no mention of Nations League).  If CONCACAF had to punish them for actions in a CONCACAF competition like Nations League then it would make sense for Mexico to lose their massive crowd advantage in the next CONCACAF competition, the Gold Cup.  It would clearly be a sporting punishment to Mexico to be stripped of that advantage.  But of course the economic pain would be all on CONCACAF's side.  

My point is that next month it is more than likely that 70K Mexicans will be at Mexico's first game at the Gold Cup.  They will chant puto throughout the game.  There will be a warning, there will be a stoppage, but after all that CONCACAF will welcome all of them back into the stadium for the next game (and every game after that) with open arms because they want the money!  You can be a bigot as long as CONCACAF gets its money.  Any banning of bigoted fans will  be put on hold until someone other than CONCACAF is the economic beneficiary.  

 

So your theory is that if Mexican fans at the 2018 World Cup in Russia chanted homophobic chants (and they probably did), Russia should be punished by not being allowed to sell more tickets to their World Cup involving the Mexican team?  And then in the round of 16, you would tell Brazilian fans "whoops, sorry.  Can't sell you any tickets because Mexico has to play behind closed doors for this game."?  Or, since you're focusing on CONCACAF, you'd ban American fans from attending a Gold Cup final against Mexico, because you're punishing the Mexican fans and Mexico has to play behind closed doors? Because that's what you're suggesting here.

The point to banning fans from home World Cup qualifying games is to deny the federation the revenue for that match, and the fans from the enjoyment of going to a game.

[Cblake]

2 hours ago, Yoginess said:

After some thought. I just can’t see this happening. I think Canada US is definitely at BC Place. There are 3-4 games that make sense to potentially play in Montreal but this is the only one that clearly makes sense out west. They will definitely play at least one game out here and I think this is it

Would the Big O be given preference as its a 2026 venue ? Wonder if that plays a part in this?

[CanadianSoccerFan]

1 hour ago, Watchmen said:

So your theory is that if Mexican fans at the 2018 World Cup in Russia chanted homophobic chants (and they probably did), Russia should be punished by not being allowed to sell more tickets to their World Cup involving the Mexican team?  And then in the round of 16, you would tell Brazilian fans "whoops, sorry.  Can't sell you any tickets because Mexico has to play behind closed doors for this game."?  Or, since you're focusing on CONCACAF, you'd ban American fans from attending a Gold Cup final against Mexico, because you're punishing the Mexican fans and Mexico has to play behind closed doors? Because that's what you're suggesting here.

The point to banning fans from home World Cup qualifying games is to deny the federation the revenue for that match, and the fans from the enjoyment of going to a game.

 

 

You're ignoring the elephant in the room which is the unique context of the Mexican team's status in the United States as the unofficial home team in every game they play there regardless of whether it is a CONCACAF competition or their own friendly. This is not the same context as a World Cup game in Russia where there's collateral damage to other fans.  Their first Gold Cup game will be against one of TnT/Cuba/French Guiana/Montserrat in the exact same stadium where the Iceland game occurred.  This will be a 100% Mexican crowd.  You said it yourself in your last line about fans being denied the enjoyment of going to a game.  If this is meant to punish a fanbase then the only fanbase that would be impacted is the 90K Mexicans that would otherwise show up to Cowboys Stadium, many of whom will be the exact same fans who showed up a month earlier to chant puto in the same venue.

If it was only about punishing the federation then I would totally agree with you.  

 

Edited June 19, 2021 by CanadianSoccerFan

[SkuseisLoose]

5 hours ago, Cblake said:

Would the Big O be given preference as its a 2026 venue ? Wonder if that plays a part in this?

The big o won’t be used, it’s falling apart, and to my knowledge the turf is absolutely abysmal compared to other turf fields in the country.

Edited June 20, 2021 by SkuseisLoose

[Alex]

Take from this what you will. I thought it would be a fun exercise to look back at the 2 most recent games (of any kind) versus each oct opponent:

Vs Mexico 2L 3-1, 2-0

Vs USA 1W 1 L 2-0, 4-1 

Vs El Salvador 1W 1L 3-1, 1-0

Vs Jamaica 1W 1L 2-0, 2-1

Vs Honduras 1D 1L 0-0, 2-1

Vs Costa Rica 2D 1-1, 0-0

Vs Panama 2D 0-0, 0-0

 

Record: 3 - 5 - 6    14 points 

12 GF 16 GA

[SpursFlu]

So what if during an away game fans knowing their team was playing in Mexico next decided to go to the game in Mexico shirts and do some chants. Not saying people from El Salvador and Mexico look a like but just saying 

[Cblake]

2 hours ago, SkuseisLoose said:

The big o won’t be used, it’s falling apart, and to my knowledge the turf is absolutely abysmal compared to other turf fields in the country.

Its a 2026 World Cup venue and got new turf for the 2015 WWC.

[Watchmen]

7 hours ago, CanadianSoccerFan said:

 

 

You're ignoring the elephant in the room which is the unique context of the Mexican team's status in the United States as the unofficial home team in every game they play there regardless of whether it is a CONCACAF competition or their own friendly. This is not the same context as a World Cup game in Russia where there's collateral damage to other fans.  Their first Gold Cup game will be against one of TnT/Cuba/French Guiana/Montserrat in the exact same stadium where the Iceland game occurred.  This will be a 100% Mexican crowd.  You said it yourself in your last line about fans being denied the enjoyment of going to a game.  If this is meant to punish a fanbase then the only fanbase that would be impacted is the 90K Mexicans that would otherwise show up to Cowboys Stadium, many of whom will be the exact same fans who showed up a month earlier to chant puto in the same venue.

If it was only about punishing the federation then I would totally agree with you.  

 

I'm not ignoring that "elephant in the room".  Please explain how the Mexican federation is punished by not having fans at a Gold Cup event.  Because they're not.  Their prize money is the same, regardless of how many fans are in the stands.  You're looking at the start of the tournament.  If when Mexican fans would be allowed back in, if they chant it again, would you suspend all ticket sales for the finals?  "Whoops, sorry American fans.  Gotta revoke those tickets.  Mexican fans chanted during the semi-finals so we have to punish them again."

I think it would be interesting if CONCACAF also barred "friendly" Mexican games in the US for a time as further punishment (or at least had them behind closed doors, though then there's no point to holding them in the US.)