WCQ: Canada vs Haiti - In-Match Thread

[CanadaFan123]

2 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

When Radz went off the end line in Montreal in 2008 and hit the ad boards, he was out of bounds bleeding and play continued. That killed us. If he'd crawled onto the pitch the match would've stopped, we would've had time to prepare a sub. It turned the tide when we'd gone up 1.

Davies. He got creamed and the ref should've shown a yellow in that early run (geez, Surinám or Haití?). But if the ref is not willing to card, call in the medics, make sure he's okay, let everyone know intent to injure doesn't wash. 

It's over and over again, we are like little kids and then cry like kids when our childish way of playing is punished. 

How did this kill us? Honduras didn’t score until the second half. The non penalty call killed us.. not him not crawling onto the pitch. 

[archer21]

3 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

When Radz went off the end line in Montreal in 2008 and hit the ad boards, he was out of bounds bleeding and play continued. That killed us. If he'd crawled onto the pitch the match would've stopped, we would've had time to prepare a sub. It turned the tide when we'd gone up 1.

Davies. He got creamed and the ref should've shown a yellow in that early run (geez, Surinám or Haití?). But if the ref is not willing to card, call in the medics, make sure he's okay, let everyone know intent to injure doesn't wash. 

It's over and over again, we are like little kids and then cry like kids when our childish way of playing is punished. 

I don’t get this argument. How does Davies rolling around on the ground help the situation? The ref still didn’t give the opponent a card. It wouldn’t stop them from tackling him again. I’m not sure what it would accomplish.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

10 hours ago, archer21 said:

I don’t get this argument. How does Davies rolling around on the ground help the situation? The ref still didn’t give the opponent a card. It wouldn’t stop them from tackling him again. I’m not sure what it would accomplish.

I think it hurts your cause, in fact.  Every reffing situation is different, obviously, and there are bad situations and straight bad refs,  but with everything being watched and multiple cameras a reality at lower levels than ever before, refs don't appreciate looking stupid.  And so, when you roll obviously multiple times across the ground, when you grab your face when leg gets hit or when your teams makes out it's a medical emergency and you pop back up next play, right as rain, the refs notice.  

A lot of refs have obviously been to instructed to not go crazy with simulation yellows against star players, that would hurt the brand, but they obviously know what's going on.  I only know what I am able to watch and the Euros have been decent, a number of yellows for simulation and refs, at very least, not rewarding the pathetic attempts. And as we have seen that does not stop players from getting help when they are legitimately in trouble. 

It is really the wrong time to advocate Canada getting into cheating, in my opinion.  We want to be at the highest level and have a chance, do we really think that things like the "Hand of God" or the Rivaldo corner are going to fly in future World Cups.  But obviously an opinion and something I feel pretty passionate about.    

[Unnamed Trialist]

10 hours ago, archer21 said:

I don’t get this argument. How does Davies rolling around on the ground help the situation? The ref still didn’t give the opponent a card. It wouldn’t stop them from tackling him again. I’m not sure what it would accomplish.

You obviously haven't watched games in Concacaf. A ref has to have a doubt planted in his head. The medics treat the player on the pitch (which in any case makes sense, Davies has been injured before and has worsened injuries by playing through and you have to make sure your top player is fine), and if the ref says hurry up, they look up and tell him off: do your job and we won't have to be here.

I am amazed that folks think this does not matter when we have been screwed over by countless Concacaf refs over dozens of matches by being pushovers. How can you all be so naive, we have spent decades whining about how this works for our rivals and hurts our results. 

In any case, that tackle was brutal. As I say, I was watching American-English commentators on my feed, I don't know where it was from, but they were bewildered by that non card. Mind you, they hated that ref for doing a botch job on one of the Nations League games (the final maybe?). But they kept saying it was orange pushing red. So had to at least be yellow.

 

[archer21]

2 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

You obviously haven't watched games in Concacaf. A ref has to have a doubt planted in his head. The medics treat the player on the pitch (which in any case makes sense, Davies has been injured before and has worsened injuries by playing through and you have to make sure your top player is fine), and if the ref says hurry up, they look up and tell him off: do your job and we won't have to be here.

I am amazed that folks think this does not matter when we have been screwed over by countless Concacaf refs over dozens of matches by being pushovers. How can you all be so naive, we have spent decades whining about how this works for our rivals and hurts our results. 

In any case, that tackle was brutal. As I say, I was watching American-English commentators on my feed, I don't know where it was from, but they were bewildered by that non card. Mind you, they hated that ref for doing a botch job on one of the Nations League games (the final maybe?). But they kept saying it was orange pushing red. So had to at least be yellow.

 

That’s a refereeing problem, not a player problem. It’s possible that if Davies rolls around, maybe the ref issues a card the next time he is fouled. But then again, maybe not. Shitty refs make shitty calls, many of which seemingly make no sense. Refs need to be trained better, and given the authority to punish these tactics. I’d prefer to eliminate the BS rather and join in it. That being said, I do realize the value of winning a free kick by shielding the ball and going down on contact. Just don’t roll around like your ankle is broken, or go down with no contact whatsoever.

[Unnamed Trialist]

Just now, archer21 said:

That’s a refereeing problem, not a player problem. It’s possible that if Davies rolls around, maybe the ref issues a card the next time he is fouled. But then again, maybe not. Shitty refs make shitty calls, many of which seemingly make no sense. Refs need to be trained better, and given the authority to punish these tactics. I’d prefer to eliminate the BS rather and join in it. That being said, I do realize the value of winning a free kick by shielding the ball and going down on contact. Just don’t roll around like your ankle is broken, or go down with no contact whatsoever.

Well then you write a letter to Concacaf about the refereeing, I am sure they'll read it. 

BTW, Davies did not have to "roll around", he was viciously creamed. He should have stayed down and gotten treatment to ensure he was alright before restarting. He's a pro on a major club, but he has not been playing for us in a way that reflects that.

[narduch]

The funny thing about this debate is we scored 2 goals against Suriname where Davies would have stayed on the ground if he was from a diving nation.

Instead he stayed on his feet in the first instance and got back up in the 2nd instance. 

[archer21]

1 minute ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Well then you write a letter to Concacaf about the refereeing, I am sure they'll read it. 

BTW, Davies did not have to "roll around", he was viciously creamed. He should have stayed down and gotten treatment to ensure he was alright before restarting. He's a pro on a major club, but he has not been playing for us in a way that reflects that.

I’m pretty sure he knows he was alright. 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

 

1 minute ago, narduch said:

The funny thing about this debate is we scored 2 goals against Suriname where Davies would have stayed on the ground if he was from a diving nation.

Instead he stayed on his feet in the first instance and got back up in the 2nd instance. 

I think he surprised them how quick he popped back up in the box.   You are right, others would have stayed there writhing in mortal agony and since CONCACAF refs are so bad, maybe they would not have given anything and the chance would have been gone.

[Unnamed Trialist]

12 minutes ago, archer21 said:

I’m pretty sure he knows he was alright. 

The guy injured himself celebrating a goal with Bayern once, and has played on injuries, exacerbating them. He is not as savvy as he should be.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

I will say we have learned in last numbers of years that "walking it off" does not work most of the time.  There is nothing wrong with being cautious with a player's (your own) health. But I think you can do that without purposely cheating or exaggerating.  Life is full of grey area but those are different things to me. 

[Aird25]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

The guy injured himself celebrating a goal with Bayern once, and has played on injuries, exacerbating them. He is not as savvy as he should be.

You’re in too deep