WCQ: Canada vs Suriname - Tuesday, June 8th, 9:05pm Eastern/6:05pm Pacific - SeatGeek Stadium, Chicago

[Kadenge]

If there is concern with  their wingers and attacking FBs or (Haps)/Becker playing on the same side (left), our wingers/wide mids depending on formation, will need to help out defensively. A combo of Laryea, Johnston, Davies and Tajon?

[TGAA_Star]

5 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

If there is concern with  their wingers and attacking FBs or (Haps)/Becker playing on the same side (left), our wingers/wide mids depending on formation, will need to help out defensively. A combo of Laryea, Johnston, Davies and Tajon?

I wonder who ends up in our starting XI for tomorrow's game against Suriname?

[VinceA]

I was a bit worried about Kennedy's first game being against Suriname but I remember that Besler and Gonzalez got thrown to the wolves when they had to start together for the first time (I think it was at least Besler's first cap) against Mexico at Azteca and they were amazing and helped get a 0-0 draw. They ended up being the US' best duo going into 2014. I have hopes the Kennedy will step up, as he has so far in his club career.

[Obinna]

58 minutes ago, VinceA said:

I was a bit worried about Kennedy's first game being against Suriname but I remember that Besler and Gonzalez got thrown to the wolves when they had to start together for the first time (I think it was at least Besler's first cap) against Mexico at Azteca and they were amazing and helped get a 0-0 draw. They ended up being the US' best duo going into 2014. I have hopes the Kennedy will step up, as he has so far in his club career.

Yeah I am not overly concerned with Kennedy making his debut in this one. He's played in some big games already this season, so I doubt the occasion will be too big for him. What better circumstances to make your Canada debut, in fact?

I am excited for him and hope we see him tomorrow. 

[BearcatSA]

13 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Yeah I am not overly concerned with Kennedy making his debut in this one. He's played in some big games already this season, so I doubt the occasion will be too big for him. What better circumstances to make your Canada debut, in fact?

I am excited for him and hope we see him tomorrow. 

It's more than just playing in big games.  It's about having familiarity with your CB partner and keeper so you don't have any communication cock ups because so much about that part of the pitch is about reading each other as it is about reading the play of the game.  Regardless of playing in front of 90,000 hostile fans or a closed door neutral site match, the more time you get against committed opponents, the better. 

I would have started Borjan, Vitoria, and Kennedy against Aruba if they were my first choice guys to start against Surinam.  But I guess the analytics this coaching staff is using says otherwise.

If Kennedy starts, I look forward to seeing him do well.

[Obinna]

14 minutes ago, BearcatSA said:

It's more than just playing in big games.  It's about having familiarity with your CB partner and keeper so you don't have any communication cock ups because so much about that part of the pitch is about reading each other as it is about reading the play of the game.  Regardless of playing in front of 90,000 hostile fans or a closed door neutral site match, the more time you get against committed opponents, the better. 

I would have started Borjan, Vitoria, and Kennedy against Aruba if they were my first choice guys to start against Surinam.  But I guess the analytics this coaching staff is using says otherwise.

I agree in general, but I question whether we are making too much of this.

For example, say we play Vitoria, Kennedy and Borjan against Aruba, just to give them a rep, well it's only a single rep, right? Would that make the difference? I am not sure.

Even regular parings have communication cock ups, and although more familiarity decreases the chances, perhaps it's worth the risk considering both players are quick and we're facing Becker.

Kennedy in particular is very fast, and that could make all the difference.

Edited June 7, 2021 by Obinna

[BearcatSA]

13 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I agree in general, but I question whether we are making too much of this. 

The whole m.o. of this forum is to make too much of anything 😉

My feeling is that if our key guys play to their standards, we win this match even if we have to grind it out against a stubborn opponent.

All things being equal, I would prefer to have one game under my belt instead of none.

[narduch]

18 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I agree in general, but I question whether we are making too much of this.

For example, say we play Vitoria, Kennedy and Borjan against Aruba, just to give them a rep, well it's only a single rep, right? Would that make the difference? I am not sure.

Even regular parings have communication cock ups, and although more familiarity decreases the chances, perhaps it's worth the risk considering both players are quick and we're facing Becker.

Kennedy in particular is very fast, and that could make all the difference.

Here's my theory:

We are playing Vitoria and Kennedy at CB tomorrow. We played Vitoria in the Aruba game to get him some playing fitness because he hasn't played much of late.

[Ivan]

I'm actually hoping for Doneil and Scott.  Some skill and come viciousness (Henry), but not too vicious Doneil! It is Concacaf remember!

[narduch]

So is Henry injured? Or was he just not on the Aruba roster to give ZBG a shot?

[Floortom]

I still think Kennedy and Doneil will be the starting CBs. Not only are they the only two who have been regularly playing at a decent level (Sturring doesn’t count here) but it lines up with everything that we’re hearing how the squad was split up in two with one focused on Aruba and one on Suriname 

 

edit: I also think there is the slim possibility of playing a back 3 with Vitoria in the middle, Kennedy on the left and Henry on the right.

Edited June 7, 2021 by Floortom

[TGAA_Star]

8 minutes ago, Floortom said:

I still think Kennedy and Doneil will be the starting CBs. Not only are they the only two who have been regularly playing at a decent level (Sturring doesn’t count here) but it lines up with everything that we’re hearing how the squad was split up in two with one focused on Aruba and one on Suriname 

 

edit: I also think there is the slim possibility of playing a back 3 with Vitoria in the middle, Kennedy on the left and Henry on the right.

Rather they play a back 4 because in a back 3 it is almost too easy to get exposed

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

3 hours ago, TGAA_Star said:

Surinamese fans have been talking too much and honestly it is about time to shut them up.

I'm genuinely curious as to how many are Suriname-based vs elsewhere. Suriname has just under 600 000 people.

The Netherlands has population of about 17½ million with ~350 000 people of Surinamese decent (if wikipedia can be trusted).

On twitter the biggest fan of the team seems to be some guy Colombia guy in Bogotá who tweets about them in Spanish

 

EDIT:

This team song (just like their team!), seems to have been made in the Netherlands:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XE0PmYZwcB8

This one seems to have been made with the help of telecom corporate sponsors in Suriname:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rM-DYSeuJAA

and this is the "official" national team song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0soesYW3ps4

 

Their optimism seems to be even higher than ours.

Edited June 7, 2021 by Olympique_de_Marseille

[Obinna]

56 minutes ago, narduch said:

Here's my theory:

We are playing Vitoria and Kennedy at CB tomorrow. We played Vitoria in the Aruba game to get him some playing fitness because he hasn't played much of late.

Interesting thought. Hard to see Herdman not using Henry for Aruba or Suriname though. 

 

31 minutes ago, Floortom said:

edit: I also think there is the slim possibility of playing a back 3 with Vitoria in the middle, Kennedy on the left and Henry on the right.

That would be a curve ball for sure. Downside is that we'd have to go 2 vs 3 with Suriname in the midfield.

I think we go 4-3-3

Davies---David----Larin

Osorio--Eustaquio--Piette

Laryea-Kennedy-Henry-Johnston

----------Borjan------------

Laryea shut down Pulisic in the Nations League group stage, so he would hopefully be able to contain Becker. Johnston up against Jozefzoon will be a good test, but he's faced similarly skilled wingers in MLS and has passed. Kennedy can support Laryea against Becker if needed. Henry hopefully just has to hold everything together and not go lunging into things. It's sounding likely that Nigel Hassalbaink starts at CF (aka baby tank), who's a good presser and so we run the risk of him hurry Henry or Kennedy into mistakes, but I trust both of them on the ball enough, just flagging that as something to watch for.

Like I said above, we need to match them in midfield and they will play 3 in there, probably Donald/Biseswar/Chery. Yes they are older, but they are all skilled and will pick us apart with an extra man.

The front 3 picks itself. We just need to be sturdy and let Davies/David/Larin go to work. I get the feeling Piette is going to be huge in this game, breaking things up in the middle. If we let them dictate the tempo from the middle and pick passes, we're going to be in trouble. 

Finally, look out for Donk to possibly start at CDM if Donald is not fit, with Abena sliding in alongside Pinas at RCB. 

For us, I think we'll see Wotherspoon or Kaye if Osorio can't go, but I think we need Kaye's physicality in there over Wotherspoon's guile. 

[Kent]

I think they are definitely more optimistic than us, but I think it's because they are playing with house money. A year or 2 ago they would have had 0 expectations, and now they can dream about making it to the final round of qualifying. As excited as we are about our players, and for how sudden it seems ours emerged, it has been relatively glacial compared to the rise in expectations they have had.

[frmr]

I would pick Wotherspoon ahead of Osorio. His form this season has been excellent and Oso has hardly played. Wotherspoon played an hour against Aruba though so maybe he’s not in Herdman’s plans for Suriname. 

[Obinna]

1 minute ago, Kent said:

I think they are definitely more optimistic than us, but I think it's because they are playing with house money. A year or 2 ago they would have had 0 expectations, and now they can dream about making it to the final round of qualifying. As excited as we are about our players, and for how sudden it seems ours emerged, it has been relatively glacial compared to the rise in expectations they have had.

I have been watching match previews on YouTube and JD (iMAXit Football) has been a great resource to get up to speed on Suriname. He's obviously in favor of Suriname, being a Jamaican living in the Netherlands, and he tries to be fair in my estimation, but I can't shake off the feeling he's underestimating our less-celebrated players.

For example, he seemed to be only marginally aware of Buchanan about a week ago, but as things progressed and the Aruba game came and went, he now seems to drop his name a little more.

Here's another example, in a combined starting 11 video he did with Josh over at JJD TV (another good channel on YouTube btw - wonder if he posts here), he ranked Dankerlui over Laryea in terms of right backs, without question. Now to be fair, Dankerlui from the little I have seen is a solid, modern, technical fullback, who is playing in the Eredivisie, but Laryea has double his transfer value (both are similar in age). I realize transfermarkt is not everything, but a less biased eye would call it a coin flip. I would like to think so, anyways. Maybe I am just biased though for Laryea.

And all that said, there is a legitimate case for Johnston over Laryea anyways at right back, who JD over at iMAXit Football has not mentioned once, and I have watched hours of this guy's content at this stage.

It is this kind of ignorance about our players (not trying to be mean when I say that) that gives me hope that we handle Suriname tomorrow.

Although he admits we are slight favorites, JD thinks it's going to be 2-1 Suriname. This is on the basis that we are a team of average players with 3/4 stars, while they are a well balanced team of veteran players who are schooled in the same Dutch fashion, and since it's a team game the Suriname collective may just win out. 

But in my mind our average players (MLS) are at least comparable to their average players (Eredivisie/Europe), but to him (and perhaps Suriname fans) Eredivisie>MLS so therefore Suriname's collective is superior, and I just don't buy that. We have a DP striker coming off the bench for gods sake.

Maybe I am just biased, but I am trying to be fair and those are my thoughts around it.

[Obinna]

21 minutes ago, frmr said:

I would pick Wotherspoon ahead of Osorio. His form this season has been excellent and Oso has hardly played. Wotherspoon played an hour against Aruba though so maybe he’s not in Herdman’s plans for Suriname. 

That's my thinking as well. Also, I don't know if Herdman calls Osorio to begin with if he didn't think Osorio could play a part on Tuesday. Maybe it's only from the bench though, so we'll have to see.

He's probably more likely than Hoilett. 

[archer21]

13 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I have been watching match previews on YouTube and JD (iMAXit Football) has been a great resource to get up to speed on Suriname. He's obviously in favor of Suriname, being a Jamaican living in the Netherlands, and he tries to be fair in my estimation, but I can't shake off the feeling he's underestimating our less-celebrated players.

For example, he seemed to be only marginally aware of Buchanan about a week ago, but as things progressed and the Aruba game came and went, he now seems to drop his name a little more.

Here's another example, in a combined starting 11 video he did with Josh over at JJD TV (another good channel on YouTube btw - wonder if he posts here), he ranked Dankerlui over Laryea in terms of right backs, without question. Now to be fair, Dankerlui from the little I have seen is a solid, modern, technical fullback, who is playing in the Eredivisie, but Laryea has double his transfer value (both are similar in age). I realize transfermarkt is not everything, but a less biased eye would call it a coin flip. I would like to think so, anyways. Maybe I am just biased though for Laryea.

And all that said, there is a legitimate case for Johnston over Laryea anyways at right back, who JD over at iMAXit Football has not mentioned once, and I have watched hours of this guy's content at this stage.

It is this kind of ignorance about our players (not trying to be mean when I say that) that gives me hope that we handle Suriname tomorrow.

Although he admits we are slight favorites, JD thinks it's going to be 2-1 Suriname. This is on the basis that we are a team of average players with 3/4 stars, while they are a well balanced team of veteran players who are schooled in the same Dutch fashion, and since it's a team game the Suriname collective may just win out. 

But in my mind our average players (MLS) are at least comparable to their average players (Eredivisie/Europe), but to him (and perhaps Suriname fans) Eredivisie>MLS so therefore Suriname's collective is superior, and I just don't buy that. We have a DP striker coming off the bench for gods sake.

Maybe I am just biased, but I am trying to be fair and those are my thoughts around it.

Yeah, you can’t expect him to know who our MLS guys are, he obviously doesn’t follow the league. He’s pretty clearly biased toward Suriname. He had a guest and they both kept saying Suriname would win because they’ll have better chemistry and play as a team better. This makes no sense considering their whole squad just joined Suriname, and they haven’t played a single decent opponent with any of these guys.

[SpursFlu]

                 Cavallini 

   Davies     David     Larin

          Piette   Eustaquio 

Johnston Kennedy Vitoria Laryea 

                    Borjan

Piette to play the role of stay at home defenceman. Johnston also with strict instructions to think d first. Laryea with more free reign to push up as Larin will undoubtedly drift in more. I really like Cavallini to start because his head knocker style will create space for David & Larin who like to run in to channels 

Edited June 7, 2021 by SpursFlu

[Obinna]

8 minutes ago, archer21 said:

Yeah, you can’t expect him to know who our MLS guys are, he obviously doesn’t follow the league. He’s pretty clearly biased toward Suriname. He had a guest and they both kept saying Suriname would win because they’ll have better chemistry and play as a team better. This makes no sense considering their whole squad just joined Suriname, and they haven’t played a single decent opponent with any of these guys.

I hear you, but does it really take that much effort? I feel pretty well versed in their players at the moment. I haven't watched highlight videos of each of them, but I have researched enough now to feel I know who they are as players.

Perhaps it's harder with our players, since they are younger and thus have short resumes and you almost have to follow MLS to understand how good players like Buchanan, Johnston and Laryea are, because their relatively short resumes do not do them justice. 

Either way, it won't be long before we see how it all plays out. Gonna be a real test for us.

Edited June 7, 2021 by Obinna

[Obinna]

3 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

                 Cavallini 

   Davies     David     Larin

          Piette   Eustaquio 

Johnston Kennedy Vitoria Laryea 

                    Borjan

Piette to play the role of stay at home defenceman. Johnston also with strict instructions to think d first. Laryea with more free reign to push up as Larin will undoubtedly drift in more. I really like Cavallini to start because his head knocker style will create space for David & Larin who like to run in to channels 

Johnston on the left? 

[SpursFlu]

2 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Johnston on the left? 

Its him or Adekugbe? I'm thinking if it's defense first and he could be comfortable defending his off wing. As someone who played a lot of fullback it didn't bother me switching sides, just more when I was attacking and wanted play the ball out under pressure.. i dont know? What are the options? I just see Adekugbe and Davies

[Floortom]

1 minute ago, SpursFlu said:

Its him or Adekugbe? I'm thinking if it's defense first and he could be comfortable defending his off wing. As someone who played a lot of fullback it didn't bother me switching sides, just more when I was attacking and wanted play the ball out under pressure.. i dont know? What are the options? I just see Adekugbe and Davies

Likely Laryea on the left as he has some experience there

[BrennanFan]

1 minute ago, SpursFlu said:

Its him or Adekugbe? I'm thinking if it's defense first and he could be comfortable defending his off wing. As someone who played a lot of fullback it didn't bother me switching sides, just more when I was attacking and wanted play the ball out under pressure.. i dont know? What are the options? I just see Adekugbe and Davies

Only other option is Laryea on the left.  He's had success there, but he's better on the right.  Herdman is really high on Johnston, so that might be how Herdman gets him into the lineup.  Laryea on the left, Johnston on the right.

Laryea and Davies both on the left seems a bit overkill.