Keeper depth chart?

[footballfreak]

13 hours ago, saladroit said:

 

https://fbref.com/en/players/86bac87b/Thomas-Hasal

hasal is nowhere near a solid MLS starter. hasal's shot-shopping numbers were bottom 20% in MLS, his difference between xGA-GA was in the bottom 10% in MLS, he's just not very good (but still looks like courtois compared to cody cropper or sebastian breza). very small sample size but isaac boehmer probably has a higher ceiling at this point honestly, let alone takaoka who was a best XI keeper in the j-league

I want to expand on this so people know just how bad last year was.

Vancouver’s makeshift backline wasn’t great, but were good enough for 18th in xGA.

Hasal’s post shot expected goals minus goals allowed per 90 (PSxG-GA) was 7th percentile among MLS goalies. For every game he played, he allowed 0.24 goals more than he should have based on quality of shots allowed.

On the other hand, he stopped more crosses into the box than just about anyone else in the league (96th percentile). 

I haven’t given up on him. He’s still young, and he’s had to manage serious injuries, but his shot stopping numbers from last year are not close to being MLS starter quality yet. He needs game time somewhere, and he’s not going to get it in Vancouver unless Takaoka (and potentially Boehmer) seriously struggle or get hurt.

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

35 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Sirois lost his spot to a newcomer in CPL so a bit of caution with him.

What I'm seeing is how thin we actually are in terms of depth.

Lastly, Carducci should be on that list having been called up before

 

All true. In addition to Carducci I would include Nathan Ingham (but that may be my Ottawa bias).

[Dominic94]

I think Hasal was kinda thrown under the bus… He needs to play though.

Emil Gazdov is one to watch and I think Baskett as well maybe had a future. It will be interesting to see what we have in the Can PL.

 

Heck we all talk about Carducci… but what do we think of Nathan Ingham?

[footballfreak]

2 minutes ago, Dominic94 said:

I think Hasal was kinda thrown under the bus… He needs to play though.

Emil Gazdov is one to watch and I think Baskett as well maybe had a future. It will be interesting to see what we have in the Can PL.

 

Heck we all talk about Carducci… but what do we think of Nathan Ingham?

He was thrown under the bus in the sense that he hadn’t earned a starter spot yet and got tossed into it prematurely, but his play was worse than the mediocre defence in front of him.

[BearcatSA]

10 hours ago, An Observer said:

I haven't watched a lot of him and can't argue with the numbers but I thought when he first started with the Whitecaps 2 or 3 years back, his shot stopping was his strength.  Am i misremembering that? The reason I raise it is if that was the case, that perhaps last year's figures are more related to a loss of confidence which could easily rebound if loaned out and given regular playing time.

Shot stopping or lack there of:  I prefer to see how the goals were conceded myself via the video to determine how stoppable they were.  There are things you pick up with a re-watch that may have influenced the specific play and put my opinion at odds with the AI.  I can remember some where I felt he should have done better, for sure.  With Cropper, I remember several where he should definitely have done better (that's why he's a career journeyman and no longer with the club).

I felt Hasal showed good presence in dealing with crosses (maybe the metrics will show otherwise) but his distribution on-the-deck was not as confident or effective.  That's where the new number 1 may have a very clear advantage.

Edited March 2, 2023 by BearcatSA

[footballfreak]

1 hour ago, BearcatSA said:

Shot stopping or lack there of:  I prefer to see how the goals were conceded myself via the video to determine how stoppable they were.  There are things you pick up with a re-watch that my have influenced the specific play and put my opinion at odds with the AI.  I can remember some where I felt he should have done better, for sure.  With Cropper, I remember several where he should definitely have done better (that's why he's a career journeyman and no longer with the club).

I felt Hasal showed good presence in dealing with crosses (maybe the metrics will show otherwise) but his distribution on-the-deck was not as confident or effective.  That's where the new number 1 may have a very clear advantage.

I wasn’t able to find pass completion percentages for goalkeepers on fbref, but I assume it’s available somewhere. What it does show is that his total touches per game was bottom of the league (literally 1st percentile). When you factor in the fact he was collecting more crosses than almost anyone in the league (96th percentile) and facing a decent number of shots, the implication is that no one involved in the Whitecaps was even remotely interested in passing the ball back to him. The flip side of that is the Whitecaps possession stats in general were hot garbage, so maybe it’s just a function of that.

For better or worse, his goal kicks were almost all long balls (90th percentile in kick distance). Your perception of his distribution may have been coloured by the lack of targets to hit with those kicks. Even after adding Cordova, the Whitecaps are the fourth shortest team in the league this year. Cavallini was decent in the air, but not terribly mobile.

Re: Cropper, I think the stats bore out that he was actually the best of a bad bunch last year, but I’m getting an error message when I try to access that page.

[Ansem]

1 hour ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

All true. In addition to Carducci I would include Nathan Ingham (but that may be my Ottawa bias).

 

1 hour ago, Dominic94 said:

Heck we all talk about Carducci… but what do we think of Nathan Ingham?

100% Ingham need to be on these charts.

[BearcatSA]

Another big thing with Hasal is that in a number 1 situation, wherever he plays, he needs to show durability.

He might develop into genuine international calibre or he might just level off as a journeyman, or somewhere in between, who knows?  I just hope he gets regular playing time somewhere this year instead of sporadic back up starts.

[SthMelbRed]

4 hours ago, footballfreak said:

I wasn’t able to find pass completion percentages for goalkeepers on fbref, but I assume it’s available somewhere. What it does show is that his total touches per game was bottom of the league (literally 1st percentile). When you factor in the fact he was collecting more crosses than almost anyone in the league (96th percentile) and facing a decent number of shots, the implication is that no one involved in the Whitecaps was even remotely interested in passing the ball back to him. The flip side of that is the Whitecaps possession stats in general were hot garbage, so maybe it’s just a function of that.

For better or worse, his goal kicks were almost all long balls (90th percentile in kick distance). Your perception of his distribution may have been coloured by the lack of targets to hit with those kicks. Even after adding Cordova, the Whitecaps are the fourth shortest team in the league this year. Cavallini was decent in the air, but not terribly mobile.

Re: Cropper, I think the stats bore out that he was actually the best of a bad bunch last year, but I’m getting an error message when I try to access that page.

Do you actually watch football, or just read advanced stats lines, which often bear no actual resemblance to reality?

[Shway]

9 minutes ago, SthMelbRed said:

Do you actually watch football, or just read advanced stats lines, which often bear no actual resemblance to reality?

Woah, woah, woah, hey now brother…take it easy.

Stats are everything around here. Especially the X ones. 

(I feel that’s exactly how the NFP guys watch it, from the stats and give their commentary as if they watched the game)

[Footyeh]

19 hours ago, saladroit said:

 

https://fbref.com/en/players/86bac87b/Thomas-Hasal

hasal is nowhere near a solid MLS starter. hasal's shot-shopping numbers were bottom 20% in MLS, his difference between xGA-GA was in the bottom 10% in MLS, he's just not very good (but still looks like courtois compared to cody cropper or sebastian breza). very small sample size but isaac boehmer probably has a higher ceiling at this point honestly, let alone takaoka who was a best XI keeper in the j-league

Boehmer has next to no sample size lol, when Hasal came in for Creapeu a couple years ago, everyone was calling him the next great thing... now its Boehmer... then it will be Anchor.. 

Maybe I'm more optimistic than most on Hasal, I think he will be one of the key GK's in our national pool in the next years.  But I think the commentary from Vancouver fan's on his season last year is laughable, no one looks at the major contributing factors to why his numbers are low, ie. the stuff no one wants to really talk about that makes the team look incredibly pathetic (the stats of the players in front of him, average possession in their own half, possession lost, turnovers in key areas etc).  At this rate with this defence and manager, this new Japanese guy will end up eating the same amount of goals and his stats won't look pretty either.  All they've done is gone out and got another shot-stopper (which Hasal is known for), experience and competition is good, but Takaoka isn't a big physical presence, he's not dominant in the air..

 

Edited March 2, 2023 by Footyeh

[BearcatSA]

1 minute ago, Footyeh said:

Boehmer has next to no sample size lol, when Hasal came in for Creapeu a couple years ago, everyone was calling him the next great thing... now its Boehmer... then it will be Anchor.. 

Anchor is a mile away from being anything close to a senior squad member, regardless of his contract situation.  I joked last year about how Boehmer could fit a marketing profile in that he looks like he could be another member of the Hemsworth acting clan:  his U23/reserve team time was unremarkable, from what I have read.  But he had one good outing last year in an emergency start and stopped one of the high priced TFC Italians on a penalty in preseason, so I guess that means a lot to some.

[footballfreak]

3 hours ago, SthMelbRed said:

Do you actually watch football, or just read advanced stats lines, which often bear no actual resemblance to reality?

Watched every Whitecaps game last year thanks. Do you actually watch football, or just like to pick fights on message boards for no reason?

My personal opinion from watching games happens to coincide with the stats. The stats say Hasal was bad. I can say “his shot-stopping was poor last year” and “he lost us games”, but those personal annecdotes don’t carry much weight. Stats, when used correctly, help to paint a picture of how, why, and where he was bad for people who didn’t watch the team last year. They’re not always fully representative, but we can have a reasonable degree of confidence that one worst stat lines in the league did not happen by accident. 

Since numbers seem to send you into a rage, I will be careful to avoid them so as not to offend your delicate sensibilities:

When Axel Schuster was asked about the goalie situation heading into the season, he was very blunt that Takaoka would be the starter. When the immediate follow up question about who would be the backup was posed, he became very tightlipped and was careful not to mention Hasal by name; referring instead to (paraphrasing because I cannot be arsed to look through a two hour podcast for the exact verbiage) the most capable Canadian keeper.

So the stats say Hasal was shit, most Whitecaps fans who watched him are happy he’s not starting this year, and the guy in charge of the roster doesn’t feel confident enough to say that he’s even the clear number two heading into the season. Is that enough wordy-words for you?

Edited March 3, 2023 by footballfreak

[SthMelbRed]

23 minutes ago, footballfreak said:

Watched every Whitecaps game last year thanks. Do you actually watch football, or just like to pick fights on message boards for no reason?

My personal opinion from watching games happens to coincide with the stats. The stats say Hasal was bad. I can say “his shot-stopping was poor last year” and “he lost us games”, but those personal annecdotes don’t carry much weight. Stats, when used correctly, help to paint a picture of how, why, and where he was bad for people who didn’t watch the team last year. They’re not always fully representative, but we can have a reasonable degree of confidence that one worst stat lines in the league did not happen by accident. 

Since numbers seem to send you into a rage, I will be careful to avoid them so as not to offend your delicate sensibilities:

When Axel Schuster was asked about the goalie situation heading into the season, he was very blunt that Takaoka would be the starter. When the immediate follow up question about who would be the backup was posed, he became very tightlipped and was careful not to mention Hasal by name; referring instead to (paraphrasing because I cannot be arsed to look through a two hour podcast for the exact verbiage) the most capable Canadian keeper.

So the stats say Hasal was shit, most Whitecaps fans who watched him are happy he’s not starting this year, and the guy in charge of the roster doesn’t feel confident enough to say that he’s even the clear number two heading into the season. Is that enough wordy-words for you?

Well done, mate. You've nailed me.

[Buchta]

A long shot... Nikola Bursać is a 20-year old keeper (mostly back-up) with Serbian 1st tier side Spartak Subotica.  

[rydermike]

Obrad Bejatović is a 19 year old backup from Burlington with Leotar in the Bosnian first tier.

[nolando]

58 minutes ago, rydermike said:

Obrad Bejatović is a 19 year old backup from Burlington with Leotar in the Bosnian first tier.

A guy from next door to Borjan's Hamilton playing in the next door league to Borjan's Serbia. Must be fate, no?

[Jack1997]

As the window comes closer, I think trying to bring Goodman or Odunze as the 3rd GK would be a great idea. The 3rd GK doesn’t really play and it’d be a great way to try to pull them closer to our program instead of bringing Sirois or Hasal.

[Bison44]

You need to pay attention to  $$$$$$$.  I expect that 3rd keeper to be either Hasal (not starting for Van) or a CPL guy, someone they dont have to fly over from europe. 

[Stryker911]

I assume that Borjan will start the Japan game. If Crepeau is healthy and back to his pre injury form then there is no reason to bring St. Clair to the November camp. St. Clair hasn't made the jump in quality I expected he would a couple years ago. There reallynisnt much to chose between Sirois and DSC, so I would prefer the 3rd spot go to a younger keeper like Sirois.

Edited October 9, 2023 by Stryker911

[trc2014]

Has Crepeau proven himself to be #1/2 since his injury?

[dyslexic nam]

For me it is Max at #1 now.  That transition has to happen and he has now started consistently for LAFC for over a month.  

[Borjans Sweatpants]

6 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

For me it is Max at #1 now.  That transition has to happen and he has now started consistently for LAFC for over a month.  

Agreed. It’s time to move on from Borjan, shouldn’t have been included personally (would’ve rathered Sirois). Crepeau was tipped to be next in line before his injury and the only question was how he would recover, which I think he has answered at this point with his great play.

[trc2014]

1 hour ago, dyslexic nam said:

For me it is Max at #1 now.  That transition has to happen and he has now started consistently for LAFC for over a month.  

If Biello pulls the trigger on that change for this game (which given its a tryout for him, with the NL quarters, are his cup final), you would have to really appreciate his decision making.  Have a feeling he won’t do it.

Edited October 9, 2023 by trc2014

[Bison44]

At the very least it should be a half time switch of keepers.  6 subs in an friendly these days I think??