baulderdash77 Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, Dominic94 said: the pool will only get deeper and more academies will emerge. In 10 years a Buchanan won’t start for us because we’ll be that much better. I think your exaggerating a bit. Buchanan just finished his age 21 year season. He’s played 2 MLS seasons now including the last one where he played every game and started for an MLS final 4 playoff team. A guy with that much experience and youth is always going to be getting time for our youth teams, if not our senior team. This is probably going to be Buchanan’s last season in MLS because he’s most likely transferred to a bigger European club after or during this season. If we had 11 guys better than Buchanan on our U23 team; then it’s going to be contending for an Olympic medal and our Senior team would be a World Cup group stage team. edited- spelling and last paragraph Edited March 20, 2021 by baulderdash77 lamptern 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominic94 Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 1 minute ago, baulderdash77 said: I think your exaggerating a bit. Buchanan just finished his age 21 years year season. He’s played 2 MLS seasons including the last one where he played every game and starting for an MLS final 4 playoff team. A guy with that much experience and youth is always going to be getting time for our youth teams, if not our senior team. This is probably going to be Buchanan’s last season in MLS because he’s most likely transferred to a bigger European club after or during this season. I meant senior team not youth, I think he would possibly start for us now, but eventually a guy at his age and level won’t be good enough because we’ll have better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baulderdash77 Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 ok then we’re on the same page. Buchanan is a very good player for the U23 level- especially because that means he’s not good enough for our senior team - yet. He obviously figures into the picture at some point. Shway 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floortom Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 12 minutes ago, baulderdash77 said: ok then we’re on the same page. Buchanan is a very good player for the U23 level- especially because that means he’s not good enough for our senior team - yet. He obviously figures into the picture at some point. I don’t believe that at all. One easy comparison would be Liam Milar, who has plenty of caps already and has apparently been called in for the Bermuda & Cayman matches. I don’t think Milar is ahead of Buchanan. also - Corbeanu is with the senior team. And he’s definitely not ahead of Tajon CanadaFan123, Dominic94, Free kick and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toontownman Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 This is very similar to the Sturing /Cornelius and Johnston/ZBG situation. They are a bigger impact for our chances of reaching the Olympics and we have adequate cover in the full mens team. Herdman got to work with Buchanan in January and we reported impressed. It's just using the player pool the smartest way we can without risking anything for the WCQ. Olympique_de_Marseille, Shway, DavemTFC and 3 others 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olympique_de_Marseille Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 5 minutes ago, toontownman said: Herdman got to work with Buchanan in January and we reported impressed. It's just using the player pool the smartest way we can without risking anything for the WCQ. I think that is their strategy. Depending on who gets released for WCQ (and tests negative for COVID19!) we could end up in a situation where we COULD have committed more your guys to the OQ, but didn't as a precaution. toontownman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominic94 Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 31 minutes ago, baulderdash77 said: ok then we’re on the same page. Buchanan is a very good player for the U23 level- especially because that means he’s not good enough for our senior team - yet. He obviously figures into the picture at some point. I think he would potentially start depending on how we line up. This is the deepest pool we’ve ever heard and the best we’ve ever been IMO. Im not sure a Hoilett is a lock for a start right now. Would Scotty A start ? Millar, Corbeanu, Buchanan on the wings for the future looks hella nice and I’d be stunned if those 3 at the least don’t end up better than the above in their prime. At full strength were looking good. Shway and toontownman 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaFan123 Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 1 hour ago, Dominic94 said: I think he would potentially start depending on how we line up. This is the deepest pool we’ve ever heard and the best we’ve ever been IMO. Im not sure a Hoilett is a lock for a start right now. Would Scotty A start ? Millar, Corbeanu, Buchanan on the wings for the future looks hella nice and I’d be stunned if those 3 at the least don’t end up better than the above in their prime. At full strength were looking good. Those are lofty expectations. Arfield and Hoilett are two of the best players to ever play for Canada and played in the EPL. If one of those guys become an EPL regular we’ll be lucky IMO. Floortom and sebdeserio 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red card Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 (edited) 8 hours ago, SoccMan said: We also have to thank the NCAA along with youth clubs like Vaughan and Sigma . What these Academies and youth clubs have done is built up some good connections with a bunch of good NCAA schools . Vaughan and Sigma expose their players to a lot of these NCAA schools through their connections and a lot of their players end up getting scholarships with some top schools, where players like Johnston and Buchanan where able to have good seasons with their respective NCAA schools and got drafted by MLS teams. Therefore, as we have seen there is still value in having an MLS draft which a lot of time drafts players that like a Buchanan was missed by for example our youth national teams and even TFC academy. With the introduction of the CPL now another option has opened along with the NCAA route . I think you will eventually also see young players take the CPL route and do well there and eventually find their way to the MLS and hopefully to an even higher level league. The NCAA route is still not a bad option as we have seen and clubs like Sigma and Vaughan have sent many players to the NCAA , do well in the NCAA and you can find yourself in the MLS pretty quickly and doing well like Buchanan and Johnston . MLS doesn't need a draft for NCAA players. In other North American pro leagues, the draft is the primary source of players and is used to prop up the poorest performing teams. While MLS rosters come from a variety of sources and having a top 3 draft pick doesn't improve the performance of a bottom 3 team. With the MLS becoming more of a selling league, the business model also now favours focusing on developing academy players. Once the CPL becomes more seasoned, the more promising players from Sigma/Vaughan who now go to US colleges will consider the CPL a viable option. They should have been on the radar of the 3 Canadian MLS teams today but it seems if you're not part of their academies, you are persona non grata (including by the CSA). The late bloomers will still go the NCAA route and leave after a year or two if they finally start blossoming. Edited March 20, 2021 by red card gator 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavemTFC Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 6 hours ago, Dominic94 said: Part of it has to do with a poor scouting network, the reality is the CSA doesn’t have money for camps and to hire full time scouts. We’re a long way from there, however as the Can PL gets established we will miss less players as they will be identified either through their academies or local partnerships. Atletico is making inroads in Ottawa and to be fair to the Whitecaps they don’t find Davies if they don’t invest heavily in their academy centres. We do have move away from the MLS academy only Youth teams and I’d imagine you’ll start to see that, we might not get camps yet but we shall see. The reality is we need money to hold ID camps and youth games etc. IIRC the CSA used to run ID camps for our U17/U20 teams around the middle of the 2010's I think? I'm assuming that stopped for budgetary reasons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominic94 Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 55 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said: Those are lofty expectations. Arfield and Hoilett are two of the best players to ever play for Canada and played in the EPL. If one of those guys become an EPL regular we’ll be lucky IMO. No these really aren’t, and no we won’t be. They were at a time our 2 best players but that time has passed. Neither is top 10, talent wise, and even accomplishment wise in our history. Corbeanu trained with the first team for a month, if he wasn’t on a top half team he would of cracked the lineup and probably should have. Millar is likely already at the championship caliber in terms of ability and perhaps higher, it’s very likely he becomes as good as both if he isn’t close already. Not exactly easy to make it at Liverpool. Buchanan has European interest and is likely to moves, he’s an impact player at the MLS level on a team that would fare in the championship, it’s not unreasonable to think he could play on a bottom half team in the EPL someday, not every team has a Marital on the wing. The above are already of Arfield and Hoilett at the same age. All due respect to both of them. baulderdash77, ghostknownunknown, Bison44 and 2 others 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaFan123 Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 (edited) @Dominic94Hoilett at their age was playing in the EPL... At 18 he was in the Bundesliga 2. None of those guys is as highly rated as Hoilett was. He genuinely had a chance to make it to the England squad at one point Edited March 20, 2021 by CanadaFan123 An Observer, Alex, toontownman and 9 others 11 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floortom Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Dominic94 said: No these really aren’t, and no we won’t be. They were at a time our 2 best players but that time has passed. Neither is top 10, talent wise, and even accomplishment wise in our history. Corbeanu trained with the first team for a month, if he wasn’t on a top half team he would of cracked the lineup and probably should have. Millar is likely already at the championship caliber in terms of ability and perhaps higher, it’s very likely he becomes as good as both if he isn’t close already. Not exactly easy to make it at Liverpool. Buchanan has European interest and is likely to moves, he’s an impact player at the MLS level on a team that would fare in the championship, it’s not unreasonable to think he could play on a bottom half team in the EPL someday, not every team has a Marital on the wing. The above are already of Arfield and Hoilett at the same age. All due respect to both of them. Just no to almost everything you have typed here 🤦♂️ Edited March 21, 2021 by Floortom Ivan, Corazon, ghostknownunknown and 4 others 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toontownman Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 22 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said: @Dominic94Hoilett at their age was playing in the EPL... At 18 he was in the Bundesliga 2. None of those guys is as highly rated as Hoilett was. He genuinely had a chance to make it to the England squad at one point I wonder if Junior regrets not picking Canada sooner. I remember watching him at Blackburn live several times. He was an absolute beast. He was at one point the most exciting young players in the premiership. Had his agent only not picked QPR for the money (sorry @Lofty - who will never see it 😛 ) Buchanan is exciting but but not that level. Corbeanu might not ever see premiership football. Jury is completely out. Millar - seems a long way off but hopefully gets the chance. None are close to Hoilett. Arfield bloomed later and is a weird comparable given the position he plays, might be a closer comparison to level though given he was at Falkirk and not playing at the highest level. Corazon and CanadaFan123 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baulderdash77 Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, Dominic94 said: No these really aren’t, and no we won’t be. They were at a time our 2 best players but that time has passed. Neither is top 10, talent wise, and even accomplishment wise in our history. ... The above are already of Arfield and Hoilett at the same age. All due respect to both of them. I ploughed through fbref for about 40 mins for this so forgive me if I’m missing someone. Below are all the Canadian players (in games played-min 50) in “Top 5” European Leagues that I can find. *edit* players who played for Canada. Not including the couple people who represented other countries. Paul Stalteri 225 Thomasz Radzinski 194 Julien De Guzman: 175 Junior Hoilett 161 Kevin McKenna 112 Craig Forrest 105 Scott Arfield 86 Daniel Imhof 61 Frank Yallop 54 Alphonso Davies 52 Rob Friend 50 I’m not saying that Arfield is one of our top 10 players ever. Hoilett definitely is. Arfield is right there around 10 if I was going to rate players to date so far. But lets not underrate these 2 guys and what they have done. *edit 2*. I just couldn’t help myself, and I’m a Canadian fan so slightly prone to self punishment, so I looked up some key defectors. These hurt to look at how they stack up: Asmir Begovic 254 Jonathan De Guzman 231 You know who 173 Edited March 21, 2021 by baulderdash77 narduch, red card, johnyb and 3 others 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaFan123 Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 @baulderdash77I think you’re mistaken on Jim Brennan. I believe he played just one season in the EPL with Norwich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baulderdash77 Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 1 minute ago, CanadaFan123 said: @baulderdash77I think you’re mistaken on Jim Brennan. I believe he played just one season in the EPL with Norwich. Damn I just saw that. He only played 10 games in the top flight. I will change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gator Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 1 hour ago, toontownman said: I wonder if Junior regrets not picking Canada sooner. I remember watching him at Blackburn live several times. He was an absolute beast. He was at one point the most exciting young players in the premiership. Had his agent only not picked QPR for the money (sorry @Lofty - who will never see it 😛 ) Buchanan is exciting but but not that level. Corbeanu might not ever see premiership football. Jury is completely out. Millar - seems a long way off but hopefully gets the chance. None are close to Hoilett. Arfield bloomed later and is a weird comparable given the position he plays, might be a closer comparison to level though given he was at Falkirk and not playing at the highest level. I think Hoilett made a mistake not joining Canada sooner, I msg'd with Marc Bircham who was an assistant at QPR the day after JH signed, he told me he was already in his ear about getting on board with Canada and he expected it would happen! Hoilett struggled at QPR in a team that should have been so much better but had many mercenaries there for the big $$$! He was almost unstoppable at times at Blackburn as you say, it didn't really ever happen for him at QPR, he had his moments though including getting up off the deck to send in a cross for an injury time winner in the Wembley Play Off Final right in front of myself and @Lofty We can only hope some of our young talent gets to or surpasses that level! ray and toontownman 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norrin Radd Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 @baulderdash77Looks like Daniel Imhof had 61 appearances in the BL. baulderdash77 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominic94 Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 1 hour ago, baulderdash77 said: I ploughed through fbref for about 40 mins for this so forgive me if I’m missing someone. Below are all the Canadian players (in games played-min 50) in “Top 5” European Leagues that I can find. *edit* players who played for Canada. Not including the couple people who represented other countries. Paul Stalteri 225 Thomasz Radzinski 194 Julien De Guzman: 175 Junior Hoilett 161 Kevin McKenna 112 Craig Forrest 105 Scott Arfield 86 Frank Yallop 54 Alphonso Davies 52 Rob Friend 50 I’m not saying that Arfield is one of our top 10 players ever. Hoilett definitely is. Arfield is right there around 10 if I was going to rate players to date so far. But lets not underrate these 2 guys and what they have done. *edit 2*. I just couldn’t help myself, and I’m a Canadian fan so slightly prone to self punishment, so I looked up some key defectors. These hurt to look at how they stack up: Asmir Begovic 254 Jonathan De Guzman 231 You know who 173 Listen I definitely jumped the gun there on Hoilett. But I standby that the 3 can past Arfield and it’s possible they end up better than Hoilett, I didn’t consider his early career and the reality is when he suited up for us for the first time he was great sure but no where close to England. I have high hopes for our young players. I don’t think Arfield played enough for us to be in that top ever, Atiba is a team legend, I wasn’t referring just to league games, but to also what they’ve done for Canada. I’m sorry 20 caps isn’t enough, Hoilett we can maybe argue, but I just feel like in terms of top 10 overall NT players we’ve had more. Dero has to be on that list and while maybe he wasn’t a euro player he was MLS mvp. I didn’t mean Top in games played in top flight, I meant top 10 all time NT player and what they’ve done for the country and in their career. Also learning experience, our history ain’t great is it....😭 toontownman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kacbru Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 After watching this game, I'm much more optimistic about our chances (fingers crossed, knocking on wood, etc). Of course, as a true Canadian supporter, I am also prepared for for the potential euphoria of qualifying for the Olympics only to have them cancelled. MtlMario and narduch 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toontownman Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 I will be devastated if we didn't finish top two. We are not favourites after that but it's one game. We have difference makers in this team if we click and keep our heads. Cautiously looking forward to Monday. Hopefully a win that can ease a few nerves and let us enjoy the last group game and concentrate on the team gelling more. johnyb and Dominic94 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 Neil Davidson's post game write up. Had to go to Sportsnet to get this because as far as I can tell, TSN still hasn't reported (on their website at least) that Canada won: https://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/article/buchanan-helps-canadian-men-el-salvador-olympic-soccer-qualifier/ johnyb 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gigi riva Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 16 hours ago, RS said: It wouldn’t be Concacaf if they didn’t fuck up the lineups to their own tournament. It would not be CONCACAF if they didn't Fuck up period Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baulderdash77 Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 1 hour ago, Dominic94 said: Listen I definitely jumped the gun there on Hoilett. But I standby that the 3 can past Arfield and it’s possible they end up better than Hoilett, I didn’t consider his early career and the reality is when he suited up for us for the first time he was great sure but no where close to England. I have high hopes for our young players. I don’t think Arfield played enough for us to be in that top ever, Atiba is a team legend, I wasn’t referring just to league games, but to also what they’ve done for Canada. I’m sorry 20 caps isn’t enough, Hoilett we can maybe argue, but I just feel like in terms of top 10 overall NT players we’ve had more. Dero has to be on that list and while maybe he wasn’t a euro player he was MLS mvp. I didn’t mean Top in games played in top flight, I meant top 10 all time NT player and what they’ve done for the country and in their career. Also learning experience, our history ain’t great is it....😭 Our history isn’t super great your right. It’s sad that arguably 3 of the top 5 players ever eligible for our team player pool prior to 2018 (including no doubt the top 2 in he who will not be named and Begovic) didn’t play for us. I would rate Arfield in our top 15 but not top 10 all time players. Hutch, DeRo and DeVos never played for a top 5 league but are definitely top 10 all time players for Canada. Hoilett is amongst the most 10 best and most talented players who have ever played for us but he joined the program late when we were rebuilding from the 2014 debacle. it’s a tortured passion being a Canadian footy fan for sure. Dominic94, lamptern and Shway 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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