Opponent watch: Jamaica

[Shway]

New update saying that Toney will not accept the call up from Jamaica in hopes representing England - regardless of him being behind Kane, Calvert-Lewin, Ings, Abraham and Watkins. 
 

Same report lists more championship guys:

Amar’i’Bell - LB (Blackburn Rovers)
Ethan Pinnock - CB (Brentford)
Jamal Lowe - FW (Swansea City) 
Rolando Aarons (Jamaican born)
Kasey Palmer - CAM (Bristol City)

How much of these guys turn up, is a wait and see, but if they could get even half of these guys they could challenge Mexico and USA.

However I did watch a video where the captain Andre Blake was basically saying it’s good that new good players want to join the team....but why now - where were you before when we were playing Guyana in nations league. 

[VinceA]

One of my favourite young FWs in CONCACAF is Shamar Nicholson. He's getting better every year and should be their starting FW. Jamaica have a decent striker core atm with him, Roofe and Reid. I think Toney eventually join though he's not going to get to play for England, not ahead of the others. I'd even throw Bamford in there before him.

Not to mention they do need some reinforcements now that both Alvas Powell and Darren Mattocks have essentially ended their international careers by choosing to go play in Sudan for some reason.

Edited March 4, 2021 by VinceA

[PopePouri]

I'd be interested in the Isaac Hayden commitment only. You can only play so many forwards in a balanced team. Right now, someone like Piette or Baldisimo would walk into their starting 11.

[Shway]

2 hours ago, PopePouri said:

I'd be interested in the Isaac Hayden commitment only. You can only play so many forwards in a balanced team. Right now, someone like Piette or Baldisimo would walk into their starting 11.

Lol...I don't know about that. 

Daniel Johnson is quality, and Michael Hector is better as a CDM which he'll probably be moved there with the increase in CB options. Joey DeZart from Orlando City  had a breakout year like Baldisimo. 

[El Diego]

If somehow Jamaica can get all those guys in the squad, and have it be harmonious, they are challenging the US for #2

[LeoH037]

13 hours ago, El Diego said:

If somehow Jamaica can get all those guys in the squad, and have it be harmonious, they are challenging the US for #2

That's assuming Mexico remain/are top dog as of now, and looking at the age of their current experienced players, and what they have potentially coming up, that's very debatable. it's also looking very unlikely that it will be the case moving forward, Liga MX's tendency to not export young talent is going to start biting them in the ass. If the USA can get a true world class coach for their men's team, watch out.

[Dominic94]

Long term Aarons would be a fool not to commit. The caliber rising here in concacaf will help us recruit in the future.

 

sucks that Suriname can field the 30th team of the Dutch, and that Jamaica can field England 100 so easily but let’s be real here...

neither has a player of the Davies caliber and we have a David caliber player to follow suit. At this level this goes a long way. Ok I get it Antonio and Bailey and good, but Antonio isn’t young.

Jamaica will pass us with their recruits sure, but it’s temporary. We are producing quality prospects and are probably already #3 at the youth level. I get it the senior team is a different thing, but it will trickle over for us and they won’t ever get world class England scraps. 

[Stryker911]

Just now, Dominic94 said:

Long term Aarons would be a fool not to commit. The caliber rising here in concacaf will help us recruit in the future.

 

sucks that Suriname can field the 30th team of the Dutch, and that Jamaica can field England 100 so easily but let’s be real here...

neither has a player of the Davies caliber and we have a David caliber player to follow suit. At this level this goes a long way. Ok I get it Antonio and Bailey and good, but Antonio isn’t young.

Jamaica will pass us with their recruits sure, but it’s temporary. We are producing quality prospects and are probably already #3 at the youth level. I get it the senior team is a different thing, but it will trickle over for us and they won’t ever get world class England scraps. 

I was kind of wondering the same thing. When was this mass exodus from the islands back to Europe that all these guys have grandparents from Jamaica, Suriname, etc..? I dont think there would be that many anymore so hopefully this stops soon.

[Dominic94]

4 minutes ago, Stryker911 said:

I was kind of wondering the same thing. When was this mass exodus from the islands back to Europe that all these guys have grandparents from Jamaica, Suriname, etc..? I dont think there would be that many anymore so hopefully this stops soon.

I think they’ll always be able to pull in quality England rejects, and they’ll produce some decent players. But their ceiling isn’t ever going to be World Cup winner, same deal for Suriname. Each will be a good concacaf team that can win the gold cup, and that’s more than fine.

I truly believe the USA will be a World Cup threat by 2026, and by early 2030 they will be a top 10 nation. There was so much investment this past decade and the infrastructure is there.

I don’t see why we don’t eventually become #2 in the region, the success of Davies and David will inspire a new generation but the CanPL and its success/failure will ultimately decide our future soccer success.

 

this may seem crazy but we do have the population and the economy to produce a world class xi, Holland does it with far less. We don’t have the training or the pathway, when we get that I think we’re rolling. We’ve seen the MLS results and they look really promising and like they are exploding, I’d imagine in 5 years we’ll be very happy with the CPL results.

[CanadaFan123]

12 hours ago, LeoH037 said:

That's assuming Mexico remain/are top dog as of now, and looking at the age of their current experienced players, and what they have potentially coming up, that's very debatable. it's also looking very unlikely that it will be the case moving forward, Liga MX's tendency to not export young talent is going to start biting them in the ass. If the USA can get a true world class coach for their men's team, watch out.

Agree here - it looks like if anything Jamaica would be after Mexico. The USA is producing better talent than Mexico at the moment. The USA has always competed with them as is but now they can truly say they have a better squad - not just more athletic but more talented as well.

The problem with Jamaica is aside from Bailey they don’t have “blue chip” players like Davies, David, Pulisic, McKennie etc. anyone coming to play with them is quite a step down to give up on playing for England to go to Jamaica. If they start getting Raheem sterling types that’s a different story. By all accounts though the JFF is a mess so whether they can even retain these “B” guys is something altogether. Daniel Johnson took years for them to recruit as he came up with excuses not to show until this fall for instance. Are they really going to be committed as needed or is this just all for show so they can get a couple caps in European friendlies? 
 

 

Edited March 6, 2021 by CanadaFan123

[LeoH037]

4 hours ago, Dominic94 said:

I don’t see why we don’t eventually become #2 in the region, the success of Davies and David will inspire a new generation but the CanPL and its success/failure will ultimately decide our future soccer success.

Because there's a country called Mexico that has a pretty damn good league, better infrastructure, a longer and deeper history with the sport, and which as a result will always (at least in our life times) have a base level that's higher than ours? Seriously... some of the takes... we've made one world cup once since 86, and already we are talking about being #2 in the region? 😅🤣😂

Edited March 6, 2021 by LeoH037

[SpecialK]

If we get Fikayo Tomori, Yes I know he’s one player, but he’s a very good player. Where would he push us too ? Because really he’s our only big fish out there that’s a dual national, the others are young talent players that are most likely not ready yet for WCQ. Are we still be hide Jamaica Costa Rica Mexico the United States? Thoughts anyone.

[Dominic94]

23 minutes ago, LeoH037 said:

Because there's a country called Mexico that has a pretty damn good league, better infrastructure, a longer and deeper history with the sport, and which as a result will always (at least in our life times) have a base level that's higher than ours? Seriously... some of the takes... we've made one world cup once since 86, and already we are talking about being #2 in the region? 😅🤣😂

By that Logic Mexico should be ahead of the Netherlands... they aren’t even close.

The Mexican league almost fell apart and their 2nd division did.... our league will be on stable footing.

I think everyone here is severely underrating the power of the U-21 minutes quota. I believe it’s close to being second to none in all of football now, it might actually be the strictest, and our domestic quota is very good. 

germany instituted strict U-21 rules on its whole structure and it lead to them winning a World Cup, they implement a u-21 rule in their men’s hockey league and you’d better believe they saw results.

holland has a u-21 requirement as well, same as Belgium. Funny how those are really nice places to develop.

Young players from 16-21 can go from average to elite to world class if they get the right development. Part of that is playing time.

If Liam Fraser had of gotten first team minutes at 18 for example or time in the CanPL id say that he would be a starter for us right now, and he’d be in Europe. 
 

The Can PL has to have 24 players under 21 everywhere gear and give them 12000 minutes total minimum, that’s huge.

I think our player pool for the Olympic tournament was pretty deep and we left some good players behind, a lot of good can PL talent, last cycle did we have that much depth ? The next crop led by say Lowell Wight will have how many minutes ? They’ll look as good as this one if not better. 

[Greatest Cockney Rip Off]

I wouldn’t be too concerned if Antonio commits to Jamaica. He is 31 in a few weeks and can’t play more than a few matches without doing his hamstrings. I think it will be a big ask for him to continue his club career and to fly across the Atlantic for WCQs. I could see him and some of others only wanting to show up for a World Cup.

 

[SpecialK]

6 hours ago, Dominic94 said:

By that Logic Mexico should be ahead of the Netherlands... they aren’t even close.

The Mexican league almost fell apart and their 2nd division did.... our league will be on stable footing.

I think everyone here is severely underrating the power of the U-21 minutes quota. I believe it’s close to being second to none in all of football now, it might actually be the strictest, and our domestic quota is very good. 

germany instituted strict U-21 rules on its whole structure and it lead to them winning a World Cup, they implement a u-21 rule in their men’s hockey league and you’d better believe they saw results.

holland has a u-21 requirement as well, same as Belgium. Funny how those are really nice places to develop.

Young players from 16-21 can go from average to elite to world class if they get the right development. Part of that is playing time.

If Liam Fraser had of gotten first team minutes at 18 for example or time in the CanPL id say that he would be a starter for us right now, and he’d be in Europe. 
 

The Can PL has to have 24 players under 21 everywhere gear and give them 12000 minutes total minimum, that’s huge.

I think our player pool for the Olympic tournament was pretty deep and we left some good players behind, a lot of good can PL talent, last cycle did we have that much depth ? The next crop led by say Lowell Wight will have how many minutes ? They’ll look as good as this one if not better. 

I agree with you, but your missing one huge point Canada ranking is 73 in the world. Top 50 nations are guaranteed work permits. So if your not a dual national with a European passport it makes it harder and another hoop to jump. So either the CPL needs to get stronger and bigger so players don’t need to move or Canada ranking needs to be better. For me Both are needed. 

[Shway]

7 minutes ago, SpecialK said:

I agree with you, but your missing one huge point Canada ranking is 73 in the world. Top 50 nations are guaranteed work permits. So if your not a dual national with a European passport it makes it harder and another hoop to jump. So either the CPL needs to get stronger and bigger so players don’t need to move or Canada ranking needs to be better. For me Both are needed. 

Thank you, this is the importance of CB the rankings that gets easily forgotten. This has primarily been the reason why we haven’t had much young talent in top tiers.

[Shway]

3 hours ago, Greatest Cockney Rip Off said:

I wouldn’t be too concerned if Antonio commits to Jamaica. He is 31 in a few weeks and can’t play more than a few matches without doing his hamstrings. I think it will be a big ask for him to continue his club career and to fly across the Atlantic for WCQs. I could see him and some of others only wanting to show up for a World Cup.

 

I’m not concerned about Antonio, and Jamaica has several pieces outside of him that are already in the program.

Jamaica has looked like us where the CBs was the main issue. However they have mitigated that with Liam Moore, and a healthy Dunkley.... than add if they do get Pinnock and Holgate they have a balance squad with depth from top to bottom. 

[VinceA]

2 hours ago, SpecialK said:

I agree with you, but your missing one huge point Canada ranking is 73 in the world. Top 50 nations are guaranteed work permits. So if your not a dual national with a European passport it makes it harder and another hoop to jump. So either the CPL needs to get stronger and bigger so players don’t need to move or Canada ranking needs to be better. For me Both are needed. 

Wasn't this completely changed? Now it is a points system based on what league you are playing in. Which is why Cyle Larin now qualifies for a work permit.

[RS]

2 hours ago, SpecialK said:

I agree with you, but your missing one huge point Canada ranking is 73 in the world. Top 50 nations are guaranteed work permits.

In the UK.

[Dominic94]

The UK really screwed the EPL with that permit, it will be tough for our guys to go over for a bit.

[baulderdash77]

3 hours ago, SpecialK said:

I agree with you, but your missing one huge point Canada ranking is 73 in the world. Top 50 nations are guaranteed work permits. So if your not a dual national with a European passport it makes it harder and another hoop to jump. So either the CPL needs to get stronger and bigger so players don’t need to move or Canada ranking needs to be better. For me Both are needed. 

I actually expect that we will qualify for the 2022 WC- even if it’s as the 1/2 spot.  I don’t think the 3-8 CONCACAF teams can deal with our midfield and forwards at the moment.  For a CONCACAF team we really have great talent.

At the end of qualifying we should build up a fair number of points and be sitting right around 50 and that changes everything.

Also becoming a World Cup team and with the pedigree of our improving team; I expect most of the fence sitters and dual nationals that are out that will side with Canada, especially with 2026 on the horizon.

Qualifying for the 2022 WC would really change everything for Canadian soccer permanently and I think it’s going to happen.

[RS]

58 minutes ago, Dominic94 said:

The UK really screwed the EPL with that permit, it will be tough for our guys to go over for a bit.

As @VinceA noted, it's been revamped now (due to Brexit).

[Dominic94]

27 minutes ago, RS said:

As @VinceA noted, it's been revamped now (due to Brexit).

I thought it was revamped to be more difficult.

[Shway]

We'll get to see how Jamaica looks against the USA in Austria later this month. Some of the new recruits that already had their passport (Liam Moore, Blair Turgott, and Rolando Aarons) should be there.

However in typical Caribbean fashion, there is a dispute about player match/appearances fees.

[LeoH037]

19 hours ago, Dominic94 said:

By that Logic Mexico should be ahead of the Netherlands... they aren’t even close.

The Mexican league almost fell apart and their 2nd division did.... our league will be on stable footing.

I think everyone here is severely underrating the power of the U-21 minutes quota. I believe it’s close to being second to none in all of football now, it might actually be the strictest, and our domestic quota is very good. 

germany instituted strict U-21 rules on its whole structure and it lead to them winning a World Cup, they implement a u-21 rule in their men’s hockey league and you’d better believe they saw results.

holland has a u-21 requirement as well, same as Belgium. Funny how those are really nice places to develop.

Young players from 16-21 can go from average to elite to world class if they get the right development. Part of that is playing time.

If Liam Fraser had of gotten first team minutes at 18 for example or time in the CanPL id say that he would be a starter for us right now, and he’d be in Europe. 
 

The Can PL has to have 24 players under 21 everywhere gear and give them 12000 minutes total minimum, that’s huge.

I think our player pool for the Olympic tournament was pretty deep and we left some good players behind, a lot of good can PL talent, last cycle did we have that much depth ? The next crop led by say Lowell Wight will have how many minutes ? They’ll look as good as this one if not better. 

My friend, we are comparing Mexico and Canada here, in CONCACAF... you make a lot of points, but none of them signal to us being better than Mexico anytime in the near or distant future... even if we beat them in the occasional game now and then, 7 out of 10 times they still wipe the floor with us, and even with a team lacking European talent, they'll still give everyone in CONCACAF a hard time (a national team made up of top Liga MX talent is nothing to scoff at). We spend nowhere near as them on the sport (ffs we can't even get friendlies, let alone training camps), and have a league with 8 teams that's only had one full season of play... yes we are better off than a decade ago, but to start suggesting we'll be top 2 in CONCACAF in any of our life times? err...

Edited March 7, 2021 by LeoH037