WCQ: Cayman Islands vs Canada - Monday, March 29th 6pm Eastern/3pm Pacific - IMG Academy Florida

[Unnamed Trialist]

Rewatching highlights: I think Ferreira is clearly offside on our first goal. 

I'll be checking the rest to see how much we were gifted by this reffing team. 

Joking, but it does show how the officiating level is pretty average in Concacaf.

Edit: and Wotherspoon invades the box on the missed Kaye penalty (which IMO was given softly anyways).

I can see why Suriname might complain about us being favoured....

Edited March 30, 2021 by Unnamed Trialist

[Unnamed Trialist]

14 minutes ago, TOCanada115 said:

For the draw, the teams were allocated to four pots based on the FIFA World Rankings of October 2017. Pot one contained the hosts Russia (who were automatically assigned to position A1) and the best seven teams. Pot two contained the next best eight teams, and so on for pots three and four.^[46] This was different from previous draws, when only pot one was based on FIFA rankings while the remaining pots were based on geographical considerations. However, teams from the same confederation still were not drawn against each other for the group stage, except that two UEFA teams could be in each group. 
 

So yes, while 2 teams from the confederation can’t play each other (except UEFA), you’d still rather be in pot 3, where you get a lower ranked team in your group, regardless of their confederation.  
 

Also increases your chance of getting a African, or Asian team in your group, and less likely to get 2 euro teams, and South American team in your group. 

As I see it, you have to be in the top 50 to make the WC. It is rare for a nation below that to qualify. Get into the top 50, stay there, and build from that ranking, and that kind of seeding for the Gold Cup, Nations League, to get to the WC. 

If we make the Octogon we will probably have risen to top 60 on the basis of the results by the summer. Then, if we want to be amongst the top 3 teams over 14 matches, we'll probably need to win half, or maybe 8. Say 25 points of 42. That will ensure our ranking going into the WC regardless.

[CanadianSoccerFan]

2 hours ago, grigorio said:

lol

 

Things I loved yesterday

1) This picture

2) MAK's celebration

3) Piette's twin managing the opposition

4) Seagulls squawking during the anthems

5) Cav headbutting Phonsie

6) Golf carts and random kids watching behind the goal

7) Someone in the crowd yelling "watch your language"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CanMNT Memes]

#CanMNT Memes on Instagram: “He'll get one eventually. #canmnt” 

Edited March 30, 2021 by CanMNT Memes

[Pottsy3]

3 hours ago, VinceA said:

My issues are more beyond the pitch with him. His switch feels pretty disingenuous. Multiple injuries, no club and no hope for playing with Portugal and now he wants to play for us. I have similar reservations with Vitoria but he wasn't without a club and broken down when he made his switch.

 

I don't even know what his club situation is going to look like, if one of the relegation battling teams in Portugal didn't want him, that means he probably drops down a level or two which isn't good. Not to mention if he can even stay healthy.

 

This is my opinion though if someone is glad to have him then more power to them.

Pump the brakes... let's give this guy a chance. This is the same forum that was begging for us to call a CB who played in the Austrian second division last season and is applauding a CB on a lowly second division Dutch team.

My point being: CB is our weakest position and we are in no position to push away players with the pedigree Ferreira has, especially using the "club level" argument. I remember this forum having a similar opinion on Steven Vitoria a few years ago, and look at him now. 

Ferreira is one of many players who were performing at a high level and had hopes of playing for another country, not so different from Tomori (although Ferreira surely has a tighter connection to Canada)... so be it. Hell, maybe he would've committed earlier if he was ever healthy. Now he's healthy, and we still have a hole in our defence. Worth giving a chance. 

[red card]

14 hours ago, Shway said:

I would love for Davies and David to be there....I’m cool with no Arfield, or Hutch if it means we have those guys in the team. 

Who’s making up the rule that players can’t be at both? Or are they trying to be considerate.

A solid team could make us contenders, and give the right momentum we need for the Octo.

You need to give the Euro players vacation time for their bodies to recover before pre-season training starts. Either their form with the national team and/or their club form is going to tail off.

Davies has been playing since last May with only a small break in late August and a holiday break. Almost everyone in Europe is playing a compressed schedule because of covid & Euros. Fans not in the stands isn't helping but you can see there has been lot of inconsistent performances at both the club and the individual player level during this season.

MLS/CPL players are good for both June & July since they would be playing anyway and haven't played much in the past year.

[Gian-Luca]

6 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Cayman won their Nations League group, I believe. This new coach, a young guy from the Ipswich system, has gotten decent results vs similar island nations.

So this is what it is all about, including them in a next stage.

Which is why I don't agree with you on this G-L.

Anywhere where there used to be blowouts they are less and less frequent. In UEFA all nations are included in all qualifiers, and if you look at results, they are getting tighter and tigher. Spain had their famous 12-1 win over Malta in 1983 when they needed goals to qualify for the Euro 84, and back then it was feasible to imagine doing that. Nowadays it would be impossible: Malta is now above minnow status. Amongst the weakest sides, with a few exceptions, they play much closer matches even against the powerhouses: I watched Hargreaves play for England in a qualifier against Andorra played in Barcelona, and it was scoreless at the half; recently the Andorra u-21 drew England 3-3 in a qualifier, England with U-17 WC winners playing for them.  Gibraltar, Faroe Islands, they also come up with surprises. 

Then, if Cayman gets a result, anyone talented living abroad with that nation's heritage might actually consider putting their shirt on. Why can't the logic workin for us work for them? We are more legit, and we can therefore draw better players into the mix.

Suriname is a team waiting to happen, I think Domincan Republic will end up being tough (with so many around the world, I have coached kids from Domincan families here in BCN), all these Caribbean nations are going to get better. 

I could be wrong, but my guess is that all of the European minnows use professional players, and I think that makes a huge difference in a nation's ability to improve or be competitive within the region. Wheeler mentioned yesterday that none of the Cayman Island players are even professional players, and they are the Pot D team - we haven't even played the Pot E team yet. Clubs develop players far more than associations do so I think the chances of these teams  (which I am dubbing "mini-minnows" because I think they are a category below minnows) improving the way the European teams have is slim.

That said, I have no idea of the state of Mongolian football so am not sure if their "professionals" were the ones who managed to lose 14-0 today to Japan, just like I am not sure if the Cambodian players who lost 14-0 to Iran earlier in their group are also professionals. So it might just be a "European football is just generally of a higher quality round the continent" thing.

[Kadenge]

Ferreira is a wild card. Lots of ifs. ..but if  healthy and gets regular club minutes he could be our best CB. He is class on the ball and strong in every aspect except for a lack of speed. You got a glimpse of his passing ability when he spotted  Wotherspoon breaking into the box on Larin's goal. If healthy and playing he would be an upgrade on Vitoria. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

20 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

I could be wrong, but my guess is that all of the European minnows use professional players, and I think that makes a huge difference in a nation's ability to improve or be competitive within the region. Wheeler mentioned yesterday that none of the Cayman Island players are even professional players, and they are the Pot D team - we haven't even played the Pot E team yet. Clubs develop players far more than associations do so I think the chances of these teams  (which I am dubbing "mini-minnows" because I think they are a category below minnows) improving the way the European teams have is slim.

That said, I have no idea of the state of Mongolian football so am not sure if their "professionals" were the ones who managed to lose 14-0 today to Japan, just like I am not sure if the Cambodian players who lost 14-0 to Iran earlier in their group are also professionals. So it might just be a "European football is just generally of a higher quality round the continent" thing.

That is a good argument. In Europe there was amateurism until recently, but with money coming from UEFA, trickle down from the club competitions, participation in early rounds, then something simple like you are a minnow but get to host a major team at home and sell out--these are all revenue streams, no doubt. And that helps your overall economy, of your league, your federation.  

Then, as you suggest, you are in a continental system (plus islands) and a player can move easily from one country to another, a hot player from Malta goes to Cyprus, which is a step up and actually hones him properly to compete.

I get the sense that the implantation of Nations League in our confederation, plus strengthened club competitions, and the emerging tv contracts, are all meant to bolster what you are talking about in our Pot D and E nations.

Still, even at an amateur level now, the world over, things have changed and being pro or not does not affect these shifts. Like conditioning--no one from Cayman was out of shape or unfit, everyone was a proper athlete. Another is tactics, which the world over are learnt and applied. Cayman lined up right, was positioned right, and actually kept their shape the whole game, and even when countering did so in a relatively coherent way.

[MM3/MM2/MM]

8 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

 Like conditioning--no one from Cayman was out of shape or unfit, everyone was a proper athlete. 

Except #4

[Gian-Luca]

2 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

That is a good argument. In Europe there was amateurism until recently, but with money coming from UEFA, trickle down from the club competitions, participation in early rounds, then something simple like you are a minnow but get to host a major team at home and sell out--these are all revenue streams, no doubt. And that helps your overall economy, of your league, your federation.  

Then, as you suggest, you are in a continental system (plus islands) and a player can move easily from one country to another, a hot player from Malta goes to Cyprus, which is a step up and actually hones him properly to compete.

I get the sense that the implantation of Nations League in our confederation, plus strengthened club competitions, and the emerging tv contracts, are all meant to bolster what you are talking about in our Pot D and E nations.

Still, even at an amateur level now, the world over, things have changed and being pro or not does not affect these shifts. Like conditioning--no one from Cayman was out of shape or unfit, everyone was a proper athlete. Another is tactics, which the world over are learnt and applied. Cayman lined up right, was positioned right, and actually kept their shape the whole game, and even when countering did so in a relatively coherent way.

While Gilbraltar got smoked 7-0 by the Dutch today (although was not the most lopsided Euro score of the day), it is interesting to note Luxembourg beat Ireland the other day and took and held the lead against Portugal today (who started two of David's teammates) until the end of the first half, and only fell 3-1 in the end.

 

[johnyb]

I think it was important to run up the score to show FIFA and CONCACAF how ridiculous this qualifying format is.  

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

3 hours ago, Kadenge said:

Ferreira is a wild card. Lots of ifs. ..but if  healthy and gets regular club minutes he could be our best CB. He is class on the ball and strong in every aspect except for a lack of speed. 

The lack of speed is why I'd be hesitant to use him against Suriname unless he is no longer with Unattached FC and playing well at club level.

I think we need to bring Scott Kennedy into the fold and give Guti a try so my back line vs Aruba would be:

Gutiérrez - Kennedy - Ferreira - Johnston 

With a more "traditional" back line against Suriname.

Edited March 31, 2021 by Olympique_de_Marseille

[dyslexic nam]

32 minutes ago, johnyb said:

I think it was important to run up the score to show FIFA and CONCACAF how ridiculous this qualifying format is.  

Agreed.   These lopsided ass-whoopings are the best way to get the point across that we don’t belong in the same groupings as these teams. 

[Free kick]

2 hours ago, Gian-Luca said:

While Gilbraltar got smoked 7-0 by the Dutch today (although was not the most lopsided Euro score of the day), it is interesting to note Luxembourg beat Ireland the other day and took and held the lead against Portugal today (who started two of David's teammates) until the end of the first half, and only fell 3-1 in the end.

 

I would exclude Luxembourg from the category of “Minnow”.  We played them soemthing like 12-15 yrs ago.   If i recall correctly,  we did win but it wasnt by any kind of wide margin.  
 

Leitchtenstien, on the other hand, a definite minnow.  

Edited March 31, 2021 by Free kick

[CanadaFan123]

1 minute ago, Free kick said:

I would exclude Luxembourg from the category of “Minnow”.  We played them soemthing like 10-15 ago.   If i recall correctly,  we did win but it wasnt any kind of wide margin.  

They were minnows back then but they have some quality players now. 

[Free kick]

7 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

They were minnows back then but they have some quality players now. 

I have some recollections of discussions here at the time we were to play them.  When we were all looking at them more closely.   I recall concluding even then,  that they could give some teams a game. That was based on their intl results at that time. 
 

but i could be wrong.

Edited March 31, 2021 by Free kick

[Cblake]

5 hours ago, Gian-Luca said:

I could be wrong, but my guess is that all of the European minnows use professional players, and I think that makes a huge difference in a nation's ability to improve or be competitive within the region. Wheeler mentioned yesterday that none of the Cayman Island players are even professional players, and they are the Pot D team - we haven't even played the Pot E team yet. Clubs develop players far more than associations do so I think the chances of these teams  (which I am dubbing "mini-minnows" because I think they are a category below minnows) improving the way the European teams have is slim.

That said, I have no idea of the state of Mongolian football so am not sure if their "professionals" were the ones who managed to lose 14-0 today to Japan, just like I am not sure if the Cambodian players who lost 14-0 to Iran earlier in their group are also professionals. So it might just be a "European football is just generally of a higher quality round the continent" thing.

Yes most of the Cayman Island's player play in the domestic top flight on the island, which likely resembles any Thursday night men's league in Toronto, Vancouver where ever that may be. The one 16 year old kid club is listed as a private school in England. The difference between the Caymans and say the US Virgin Islands, is that the USVI seemed to have a real mishmash of a roster due to their ties to the US, lower division pros and college players. Every once and a while we see a minnow try to recruit legit pros through heritage and for the most part they are not very successful at it. If you are born in England and say playing in The Championship and can play for a minnow , is that really going to interest you, I think for a lot of guys it won't or they will try it, play a game or two and then pack it in. 

[Free kick]

11 hours ago, narduch said:

It probably doesn't matter as the World Cup draw isn't done using FIFA rankings. It is done by Regions.

For example a group  can't have more than 2 European teams.

Edit: Technically they did use seeding in 2018 but they still have regional exceptions. In 2014 it was done by region:

I think if we do end up qualifying we will shoot up the rankings.

 

10 hours ago, TOCanada115 said:

For the draw, the teams were allocated to four pots based on the FIFA World Rankings of October 2017. Pot one contained the hosts Russia (who were automatically assigned to position A1) and the best seven teams. Pot two contained the next best eight teams, and so on for pots three and four.^[46] This was different from previous draws, when only pot one was based on FIFA rankings while the remaining pots were based on geographical considerations. However, teams from the same confederation still were not drawn against each other for the group stage, except that two UEFA teams could be in each group. 
 

So yes, while 2 teams from the confederation can’t play each other (except UEFA), you’d still rather be in pot 3, where you get a lower ranked team in your group, regardless of their confederation.  
 

Also increases your chance of getting a African, or Asian team in your group, and less likely to get 2 euro teams, and South American team in your group. 

Prior to to russia,  For as long as i can recall, am pretty sure that at the world cup draws they have always had the first pot comprised of top seeded teams.   The next three pots were alwys based on regions.  Thus to avoid multiple teams from the same region ending up in the same group.

This brings me to something i noted and began to apprecaite in the way FIFA does this.   For all its short comming and suspicions around them,   they do they process pretty fairly (yes i said that believe it or not!) compare to, say, FIBA.   At least with FIFA,  you get a sence that they cognicent of the scrutiny and suspicions that they are under.  So you always know well before hand how the process is going to be carried out and the logic around it.   With FIBA ,  you have no idea WHAT SO EVER!  They will change teh rules (and did so) the night before the draw happens.   We would all have gone ape-shit  here had the same thing happened to our national team in soccer during one of these processes as it did and unfolded for our national basketball team during the last FIBA world cup draw. 

Edited March 31, 2021 by Free kick

[Pottsy3]

I'm seeing some commentary about our CB's lacking speed... can we PLEASE bring Manjrekar James back into the fold?

There has obviously been some sort of falling out, but this man was arguably our second best CB (behind Doneil) the last time he was getting called. 

Edited March 31, 2021 by Pottsy3

[dyslexic nam]

7 hours ago, Pottsy3 said:

I'm seeing some commentary about our CB's lacking speed... can we PLEASE bring Manjrekar James back into the fold?

There has obviously been some sort of falling out, but this man was arguably our second best CB (behind Doneil) the last time he was getting called. 

If he doesn’t at least get time during the WCQ/GC crunch in June, he might as well shop for a new country to play for.  Something definitely seems to be going on - whether it is a personality issue or Herdman just really thinks he is poor.  

[PopePouri]

9 hours ago, Pottsy3 said:

I'm seeing some commentary about our CB's lacking speed... can we PLEASE bring Manjrekar James back into the fold?

There has obviously been some sort of falling out, but this man was arguably our second best CB (behind Doneil) the last time he was getting called. 

It looks like the emergence of Miller as a CB and Johnston has a more conservative RB, Herdman has a lot more flexibility at the back with his player pool. He'll mitigate the lack of speed of Vitoria and Ferriera by shifting to a back 3 in possession. He does this by shifting Adekugbe to LCB and Davies as LW like the Bermuda game. If Johnston is starting, he can shift to RCB, and Hoilett/Laryea to RW. This is all combined with a mobile double pivot of Eustaquio and Hutchinson. 

[Obinna]

 

10 hours ago, Pottsy3 said:

I'm seeing some commentary about our CB's lacking speed... can we PLEASE bring Manjrekar James back into the fold?

There has obviously been some sort of falling out, but this man was arguably our second best CB (behind Doneil) the last time he was getting called. 

It’s not like he hasn’t gotten chances. He was pretty poor in the January 19 camp.

I think it’s mostly a case of him having to wait for his chance, because there has been no indication of a falling out. If you’re Herdman, do you skip the chance to bring in a freshly recruited Ferreira, who we have been after forever, or a young Sturing who has played as a youth international for the netherlands? I am not sure you do.

He knows what James brings and I think we may see him again, but not calling him this round was understandable. 

The other thing is that he may be better served getting games in Greece after playing sparingly in Denmark and appearing in a single UCL game (where he showed decently against a good opponent, to be fair). That may be some of it, but mostly he’s probably just not favoured right now. Can’t call everyone.

Even Waterman is a player who makes sense over James, who already has the national team experience. Get other players involved and build the depth and competition, right?

[Bison44]

3 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

If he doesn’t at least get time during the WCQ/GC crunch in June, he might as well shop for a new country to play for.  Something definitely seems to be going on - whether it is a personality issue or Herdman just really thinks he is poor.  

Is that even a thing? A 27 year old with almost 20 games for a country can just switch??  James usually looks pretty good for Canada but never seems to get his club situation settled.  He prob isnt done with the national team but as these other guys have improved he isnt a automatic call anymore.  Hard to tell about Sturing or Ferriera against that kind of competition, but Herdman has had them all in camp, we'll see who he calls this summer.

 

[dyslexic nam]

21 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Is that even a thing? A 27 year old with almost 20 games for a country can just switch??  James usually looks pretty good for Canada but never seems to get his club situation settled.  He prob isnt done with the national team but as these other guys have improved he isnt a automatic call anymore.  Hard to tell about Sturing or Ferriera against that kind of competition, but Herdman has had them all in camp, we'll see who he calls this summer.

 

Ha.  Of course that is correct.  That’s what happens when I reach for my phone as soon as I wake up.