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WCQ: Cayman Islands vs Canada - Monday, March 29th 6pm Eastern/3pm Pacific - IMG Academy Florida


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1 minute ago, Kent said:

So if we make it to the ocho, all our home games should be in Bradenton! Let's run up the score on Honduras and Mexico!

It is actually a nice looking facility that we are familiar with, if we can't play at home I like this as a base, maybe there will be some confidence from a good experience there!

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4 hours ago, Treppy2 said:

"He scores with his arse!" And now, "He saves with his arse!"

I must have missed this play. But if he can score and defend with his arse, it just proves. He's got the most well rounded ass in soccer.

Edited by Kent
Typo
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12 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

Has anyone seen the ex-Curacao coach who was apparently hired as an assistant,  over the 2 games?

Idk but one of my former coaches at Toronto High Park was the 3rd coach seen with Caldwell and Herdman which I thought was pretty cool. He was previously with the u17s at the World Cup.

Edited by sebdeserio
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2 hours ago, narduch said:

I'm laughing at the mercy rule comments. 

This isn't fucking youth softball 

I don't really mind running up the score so much, but it a mercy rule makes some competitive sense as well. Let's take a hypothetical situation.

Let's say Canada and Suriname end up tied. Canada beat Bermuda by 4 which is a thoroughly comprehensive win, Suriname beat Bermuda by the skin of their teeth, by 1. Canada beats Cayman Islands by 11, which is essentially "as many goals as we damn well want because this just isn't a challenge at all". Then let's say Suriname actually beat Cayman Islands by 15. What's the difference between an 11 goal win and a 15 goal win? Really, it's nothing. Both are "as many goals as we damn well want because this just isn't a challenge at all". But there is a difference between a 4 goal win and a 1 goal win, a pretty significant difference. The total goal difference is lower for Canada in this scenario but they dominated 2 teams instead of only 1 like Suriname.

The only thing that bothered me a bit about this running up of the score was that Canada were making a point to get the ball to run it back to half. It was happening right from the first goal in the first 5 minutes of the game. Try your hardest, fine, but you don't need to fight for the ball and rush the ball back in my opinion.

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2 hours ago, SpecialK said:

I’m really excited to see what they do about the Gold Cup. Even our B team will be very good and should be filled with young players. 

Is there any reason we wouldn't have our strongest squad for the Gold Cup. If we wanted it?

The stage 2 ties are done by mid June. Sure maybe guys like Atiba and Arfield might not fancy it If they do the June group games and play ins but there aren't any other clashes. 

Gold cup could be really interesting this summer.

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5 hours ago, SoccMan said:

Lol a population of 60000 people probably no better than your local Sunday morning league in your local Canadian city .

In cricket,  fifteen of these tiny caribbean nations compete internationally under one team and one flag.  Combined they make up 6 million people and hence have a competitive international side.   They still keep their inter-island competions but everyone rallies behind one flag.  Imagine if you could do that in concacaf?  There might be cultural obstacles but that could be resolved with groupings around spanish, french and english speaking countries.   If you did this in soccer you would have a WCQ competition worth watching, one that simpler due to much fewer teams, more fair, that you can sell to the public, and one that prepares and tests even the top sides for the WC.  Of course ,  the likes of Jamaica and T&T could compete on their own.
 

Other than FIFA and in the Olympics most of these tiny island countries are not recognized or dont belong to any political or sports multilateral organizations.  Thats becasue they are too small.   There are alot of individual sports in the olympics so it make sence to have them there because you can have a delegation as small as you want.  But in team sports like soccer,  where you have to have 23 individuals on team that has to travel,  its plain stupid.   And hurts the sport in the region.   These nations dont have have teams that compete in almost any other team sport.  I dont see them in FIBA competions.   And compared to Concacaf soccer, every game the FIBA america world cup qulaifying was worth watching.   Are these really countries?  What is the definition of country?  Who determines what a country is versus a tax haven?
 

the only reason that they are recognized as countries is because the Poo Baa’s in FIFA have and will use them by granting them official status in exchange for votes to keep these same poo baa’s in these ivory towers.  I dont blame these nations at all for taking the money.   But the real reason that we have to be subjected to this kind of garbage we are seeing now and will see in September, is corruption.   
 

The same problem, but to a less extent, also happens in Oceania and Europe.   Would you lose anything if San Marino players had to compete under an Italian flag?  Or who would be upset if the odd Faroe Islands player had to compete internationally under a british isles national side?  
 

Obviously, this is not going to chnage anytime soon. But i paid my subsciption to onesoccer this month  so that i can watch the olympic tourny.  Not what we are see with these two qualifiers.  I find it goulish watch this and cheering.  After a few goal, i stopped watching.
 

edit.:  count me among those who think that we should not have run up the score.  These are not fair competitions and it reflects badly on Canada.  Imaging if Germany did the same in UEFA?


 

Edited by Free kick
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I think people have incorrectly assumed we were getting the ball from their net or from their GK in order to run it back. It may have looked like that, but I think it was just a CanMNT player wanting to get the game ball for a teammate who had just scored their first national team goal.

Edited by jtpc
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52 minutes ago, Kent said:

I don't really mind running up the score so much, but it a mercy rule makes some competitive sense as well. Let's take a hypothetical situation.

Let's say Canada and Suriname end up tied. Canada beat Bermuda by 4 which is a thoroughly comprehensive win, Suriname beat Bermuda by the skin of their teeth, by 1. Canada beats Cayman Islands by 11, which is essentially "as many goals as we damn well want because this just isn't a challenge at all". Then let's say Suriname actually beat Cayman Islands by 15. What's the difference between an 11 goal win and a 15 goal win? Really, it's nothing. Both are "as many goals as we damn well want because this just isn't a challenge at all". But there is a difference between a 4 goal win and a 1 goal win, a pretty significant difference. The total goal difference is lower for Canada in this scenario but they dominated 2 teams instead of only 1 like Suriname.

The only thing that bothered me a bit about this running up of the score was that Canada were making a point to get the ball to run it back to half. It was happening right from the first goal in the first 5 minutes of the game. Try your hardest, fine, but you don't need to fight for the ball and rush the ball back in my opinion.

This is just hypothetical though. Suriname already only managed to beat Cayman islands 3-0. Their next match is against Bermuda who won't be as big a pushover. 

This result sets us up nicely going into June.

Again the 1st tie breaker is goal difference. 

Also I'm happy to see us make a mockery of this awful qualifying format. 

Edited by narduch
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18 minutes ago, toontownman said:

Is there any reason we wouldn't have our strongest squad for the Gold Cup. If we wanted it?

The stage 2 ties are done by mid June. Sure maybe guys like Atiba and Arfield might not fancy it If they do the June group games and play ins but there aren't any other clashes. 

Gold cup could be really interesting this summer.

Third round starts in September. We are gonna need our A squad fix and ready. Playing basically  a month of a extra football is not needed and puts guys at more risk.

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33 minutes ago, toontownman said:

Is there any reason we wouldn't have our strongest squad for the Gold Cup. If we wanted it?

The stage 2 ties are done by mid June. Sure maybe guys like Atiba and Arfield might not fancy it If they do the June group games and play ins but there aren't any other clashes. 

Gold cup could be really interesting this summer.

I would love for Davies and David to be there....I’m cool with no Arfield, or Hutch if it means we have those guys in the team. 

Who’s making up the rule that players can’t be at both? Or are they trying to be considerate.

A solid team could make us contenders, and give the right momentum we need for the Octo.

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52 minutes ago, Kent said:

I don't really mind running up the score so much, but it a mercy rule makes some competitive sense as well. Let's take a hypothetical situation.

Let's say Canada and Suriname end up tied. Canada beat Bermuda by 4 which is a thoroughly comprehensive win, Suriname beat Bermuda by the skin of their teeth, by 1. Canada beats Cayman Islands by 11, which is essentially "as many goals as we damn well want because this just isn't a challenge at all". Then let's say Suriname actually beat Cayman Islands by 15. What's the difference between an 11 goal win and a 15 goal win? Really, it's nothing. Both are "as many goals as we damn well want because this just isn't a challenge at all". But there is a difference between a 4 goal win and a 1 goal win, a pretty significant difference. The total goal difference is lower for Canada in this scenario but they dominated 2 teams instead of only 1 like Suriname.

The only thing that bothered me a bit about this running up of the score was that Canada were making a point to get the ball to run it back to half. It was happening right from the first goal in the first 5 minutes of the game. Try your hardest, fine, but you don't need to fight for the ball and rush the ball back in my opinion.

Our goal: to be the winner of the group.

The rule: GD is the first tie breaker if two teams have same points.

A professional sport team should do: whatever it's legal to get the job done with sportsmanship/manner.

Our team did everything well with respect to our opponents. The sense of emergency, the way of celebration, the attitude to the game, I love them all. 

We need to build up some  gutsy spirit for  this June and September. Canada soccer made me cry too many times. I want to be part of a winning team. We gotta be tough this time.

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33 minutes ago, narduch said:

This is just hypothetical though. Suriname already only managed to beat Cayman islands 3-0. Their next match is against Bermuda who won't be as big a pushover. 

This result sets us up nicely going into June.

Again the 1st tie breaker is goal difference. 

Also I'm happy to see us make a mockery of this awful qualifying format. 

It's hypothetical just to illustrate the point. Any game with more than a 5 goal difference is essentially the same thing, a laugher. With the so called mercy rule that OneAmerican suggested we still have the 11-0 win in the books, but our goal difference would be 9 (4 for Bermuda, and maxed out at 5 for Cayman Islands) instead of 15. Suriname off the top of my head I think would be 8 instead of 9.

If you want a real world example, in Nations League qualifying, Cuba made it to League A by having +13 GD compared to Guyana who missed out on League A with +11 GD. The difference being that Cuba beat Turks and Caicos 11-0 and Guyana beat Turks and Caicos "only" 8-0. At that point the goals are in a farce of a game, so the tie breaker becomes most farcical goals.

Anyways, this sounds like I'm a lot more strongly opposed to the tie breaker rules than I actually am. I won't lose sleep over it at all. I think it would be a nice tweek to the rules that would have no downsides and a slight upside, but that's just my opinion.

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15 minutes ago, lamptern said:

Our goal: to be the winner of the group.

The rule: GD is the first tie breaker if two teams have same points.

A professional sport team should do: whatever it's legal to get the job done with sportsmanship/manner.

Our team did everything well with respect to our opponents. The sense of emergency, the way of celebration, the attitude to the game, I love them all. 

We need to build up some  gutsy spirit for  this June and September. Canada soccer made me cry too many times. I want to be part of a winning team. We gotta be tough this time.

Very well said. I think we're all a little tired of being on the outside looking in. Our boys need to do whatever it takes to hold on to first place in our group. Own any tiebreakers, and force Suriname to take the initiative if they want to overtake us. I'm in no mood to trail Suriname on goal differential, and watch as our opponents park the bus in order to win the group.

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I do care about the sportsmanship part, and not rubbing it in. But as others have mentioned, having Hex spots determined by who lets up first isn't good for competition. With a mercy rule, I wouldn't end the game. Mexico can go ahead and score 17, if they want to be jerks about it. It just isn't going to reward being a jerk in the standings. 

Edited by One American
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I don’t understand this thinking here. Maybe it because we have never been this situation before. But if we are ever going to get better and qualify for the World Cup we need to have this killer edge. Go full throttle no mercy type mentality. We can have the most talented players but without an attack mentality winner take all we’re going to embarrass you if you don’t play well approach, we are not beating teams that have equal talent to us.  With the Cayman Islands it’s a little different because they don’t really have any players but in general these Caribbean teams need to step up their game. They need to find ways to get there top guys and dual nationals, get there Soccer federations running right and stop the bs corruption, or oh we can’t beat this team so we will send a shit squad and take out pro soccer players. The Caribbean needs to start taking things seriously. Yes Some countries have. But most haven’t and it’s embarrassing the region. CONCACAF should have done a better job at supporting these games, like make a mini bubble and help even more with releasing players, that LORD Victor’s fault. If these Caribbean step up their game it would be a huge difference. Look at Barbados, if they got all their dual nationals, they would almost equal to us in Talent. Aruba didn’t call up their 3 best players, who play in Europe. Antigua and Barbuda has like 6 dual nationals playing in Europe. Bermuda has a good amount of talent. Those are just simple examples and there are many more. Most of these Caribbean federations only care about getting their local players exposure so they can make money off them it’s that simple because most are corrupt.

Edited by SpecialK
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6 hours ago, Kent said:

If you want a real world example, in Nations League qualifying, Cuba made it to League A by having +13 GD compared to Guyana who missed out on League A with +11 GD. The difference being that Cuba beat Turks and Caicos 11-0 and Guyana beat Turks and Caicos "only" 8-0. At that point the goals are in a farce of a game, so the tie breaker becomes most farcical goals.

Honest question - did you watch both of those games?  Because I am wondering if Guyana really did let up and just start knocking the ball around or if, with both teams playing with maximum effort, Cuba was just able to score 3 more goals than Guyana against their common opponent.  If it is the latter, to me it indicates an actual difference in quality - however slight.  And in the end, that is what tie-breakers are intended to do - they differentiate between almost equal teams on the basis of slight differences.   But if Guyana did let up and Cuba didn’t, in a format where GD is a known tie breaker, to me that is just a strategic error.  
 

Rather than adjust the rules about how you account for GD, the far more just solution would be to structure the format of your competitions to simply avoid the 11-0 blowouts.  Rather than eliminating goals above a certain threshold, you should eliminate the circumstances that cause those lopsided victories.  

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With Suriname smashing Aruba 6-0 we had to run up the score against Cayman Islands.

Bermuda should be able to hold Suriname from having another blow out. But Concacaf is bizarre. There could be an early red card and the flood gates may open.

We now have a major security blanket. It's looking like a win or draw can get us past Suriname now.

Edited by narduch
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