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2026 World Cup - News, Updates and discussions


VinceA

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1 minute ago, dyslexic nam said:

I mean political forces.   The fact that politicians deliver what the masses want, and if you compare the people who want investment in healthcare vs investment in a bit part in a WC bid, it isn’t even close.  
 

as for the previous points, I was just correcting what I saw as flaws in your position. Others were trying to point out that the public’s longstanding appetite for investment in healthcare is probably driving the political waffling on the WC bid.  Trying to tie that to COVID has very little to do with it.  So what if COVID has made healthcare even more dominantly the number one issue?   That doesn’t change anything.  It doesn’t impact the fact that Canadians would prioritize investment in healthcare (before, during, or after the pandemic) by a landslide.  

I get what you are saying, but the WC bid doesn't interfere with investment in healthcare. You can do both. It's not as if the government is going to take money out of the healthcare pot and put it in the WC pot. That's not how it works.

Governments are going in debt to satisfy the longstanding appetite for investment in healthcare (to use your words) and they will/would go in debt for investment in the World Cup. Either way they are going into debt to spend. The difference is the World Cup is a luxury and healthcare is not.

Here's the thing, the optics are such that we shouldn't go into extra debt for luxury because we have already spent so much in response to COVID. However, it's not like we are going to pay back the debt anyway.

I think it's more about keeping up appearances about financial responsibility than actually being financially responsible.

And I would hate to lose the World Cup for the sake of keeping up appearances.

 

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2 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I get what you are saying, but the WC bid doesn't interfere with investment in healthcare. You can do both. It's not as if the government is going to take money out of the healthcare pot and put it in the WC pot. That's not how it works.

Governments are going in debt to satisfy the longstanding appetite for investment in healthcare (to use your words) and they will/would go in debt for investment in the World Cup. Either way they are going into debt to spend. The difference is the World Cup is a luxury and healthcare is not.

Here's the thing, the optics are such that we shouldn't go into extra debt for luxury because we have already spent so much in response to COVID. However, it's not like we are going to pay back the debt anyway.

I think it's more about keeping up appearances about financial responsibility than actually being financially responsible.

And I would hate to lose the World Cup for the sake of keeping up appearances.

 

Unfortunately politics is the business of appearances. 

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22 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Because you cannot drive across the Atlantic Ocean? You know, that big wet thing separating Newfoundland from the rest of Canada?

What has Newfoundland got to do with the New Brunswick/Quebec and New Brunswick/Nova Scotia border, that has as many crossing as the Manitoba/Saskatchewan border?

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Just now, nfitz said:

 

What has Newfoundland got to do with the New Brunswick/Quebec and New Brunswick/Nova Scotia border, that has as many crossing as the Manitoba/Saskatchewan border?

Nothing. I made a joke to @narduch (in jest) that Newfoundland should be included in a covid-7, which was in response to his comment that Premiers of the Covid-6 should be held accountable. It was a joke because Newfoundland doesn't really have a bad situation (despite what you'd think if you talked to some of them).

He mentioned in his response that Newfoundland had an outbreak and crushed it far more quickly than some Covid-6 provinces would have done, to which I pointed out that Newfoundland (along with PEI) has natural boundaries that are no problem to enforce, while Manitoba for instance has road crossings. 

I think that's when you chimed in and still I am not quite sure what your point is about New Brunswick and Nova Scotia. I think it was you who suggested all provinces could have been isolated if there was enough will, except for the fact not all provinces have the natural isolation of PEI and Newfoundland, and shutting down roads is arguably less palatable than shutting down flights (or a ferry). 

I suppose your point is that if it works for NS/NB it should be suitable for Sask/Man? The one difference I see it that 2 of the 4 Atlantic provinces are islands, and so the Atlantic Bubble was relatively palatable. I don't think selling the same sort of bubble to a bunch of Prairie folk is as easy, so I am not sure how much of a comparison you can draw between the response from these two regions. 

So still apples to oranges. Just my opinion. Arguably less for New Brunswick and Nova Scotia though, i'll grant you that.

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37 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

In the context of this argument - irrelevant. 

It's an aside that's not completely irrelevant in my opinion. The country is clearly shifting in that direction. You brought up politicians giving the masses what they want, which is government spending on public healthcare. You said you can see how the (political) forces at work are softening the stance towards hosting the WC, since the optics are this will draw away from public healthcare spending.

I am not saying the world cup wouldn't be in jeopardy if we had private healthcare. I am not advocating for private healthcare or shitting on public healthcare.

Just an interesting thought when considering your comment and @SpursFlu comment on the private health care thing. Not directly related though, I am sure..

Edited by Obinna
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23 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I suppose your point is that if it works for NS/NB it should be suitable for Sask/Man? The one difference I see it that 2 of the 4 Atlantic provinces are islands, and so the Atlantic Bubble was relatively palatable. I don't think selling the same sort of bubble to a bunch of Prairie folk is as easy, so I am not sure how much of a comparison you can draw between the response from these two regions. 

So still apples to oranges. Just my opinion. Arguably less for New Brunswick and Nova Scotia though, i'll grant you that.

I'm not arguing Newfoundland or PEI at all. It's Nova Scotia and New Brunswick that are the examples of why separation by sea isn't necessary.

Not sure what the Atlantic Bubble has to do with it. That was only established after all 4 provinces were Covid-free.

People forget that the fifth province that became Covid-free last summer was Manitoba ... which then went on to have some of the highest Covid rates in the country.

As for private health care ... my gosh. I think we've all seen what a complete disaster that has been in the UK for the last 75 years. Growing up in Canada and visiting an NHS hospital in the 1980s and 1990s was like walking through a time machine into the past. Forget 2 to a room and 4 to a room.  I saw 24 to a room - among other weirdness.

Edited by nfitz
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4 minutes ago, nfitz said:

I'm not arguing Newfoundland or PEI at all. It's Nova Scotia and New Brunswick that are the examples of why separation by sea isn't necessary.

Not sure what the Atlantic Bubble has to do with it. That was only established after all 4 provinces were Covid-free.

People forget that the fifth province that became Covid-free last summer was Manitoba ... which then went on to have some of the highest Covid rates in the country.

It's not necessary, but it helps.

What also helps is an Atlantic bubble, which is easy to establish when 2 of the 4 members are islands. Kind of a harder sell in Western Canada. 

You have to consider population size as well. The four smallest provinces by population are PEI, Newfoundland, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia and Manitoba. No surprise if the same provinces became covid-free first.

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16 minutes ago, Obinna said:

It's an aside that's not completely irrelevant in my opinion. The country is clearly shifting in that direction. You brought up politicians giving the masses what they want, which is government spending on public healthcare. You said you can see how the (political) forces at work are softening the stance towards hosting the WC, since the optics are this will draw away from public healthcare spending.

I am not saying the world cup wouldn't be in jeopardy if we had private healthcare. I am not advocating for private healthcare or shitting on public healthcare.

Just an interesting thought when considering your comment and @SpursFlu comment on the private health care thing. Not directly related though, I am sure..

I don’t see his posts anymore so didn’t really think about the context.  I still don’t think it has much to do with the core issue though, which is about the optics of spending on a sports tournament when people (public and politicians) want spending on healthcare prioritized.  

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3 hours ago, Obinna said:

I get what you are saying, but the WC bid doesn't interfere with investment in healthcare. You can do both. It's not as if the government is going to take money out of the healthcare pot and put it in the WC pot. That's not how it works.

 

 

I think it will be the exact opposite, money that was budgeted for the WC matches may be thrown towards the healthcare system, whether we agree with that it doesn't matter it's all about polls and governments will follow the votes!

Edited by gator
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6 hours ago, Obinna said:

Yeah maybe healthcare is a priority for the subset of the general public who are still engaged with this stuff.

However, a lot of people have already moved on and are just waiting for the politicians and governments to just get over it and return life to normal.

So don't discount or underestimate that part of the general population!

Problem is that this part of the population that mitigates the severity of the situation that we currently find ourselves in (such as yourself and SpursFlu) are nutbags of the highest order. You think you can just ignore or wish away the pandemic and all will be fine. Fortunately these people are in the minority and saner heads are (still) prevailing.

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I think the one thing we don't know is "how cheaply could we host the World Cup?"  Given the pandemic, would FIFA be willing to wave away some of their demands?  Would BMO, as is, be enough to host games?  Would BC Place, with some temporary grass and minus a bunch of the other upgrades FIFA was asking for be enough?  We know (roughly) what the demands were when BC withdrew initially.  But maybe enough has changed that it's worth revisiting, and pushing back a bit.

I'm just curious, but has anyone been paying attention to host/bid cities in the US are doing?  There's enough cities/states bidding and willing to eat the debt that I'm not at all suggesting they'll lose it, but I'm curious on how it's going.

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8 hours ago, JamboAl said:

@Obinna: Maybe it’s shoulder shrugging but I’d like to think of it as trying to be realistic.  

There are two (maybe more) camps in this forum and this has been borne out by the Covid debate and how we feel about the CSA.  

What makes me sad is that normally, I’d be super excited to book flights and hotels to go watch WC Qualifying and supporting our men and women.  This March, I wouldn’t travel to Orlando to watch the upcoming matches even if I were allowed.  

I'm with you on that. I would consider driving, but I wouldn't even think about flying to watch a game, even within this country, let alone flying to Orlando.

Hopefully 2022 will be a better year.

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16 hours ago, Obinna said:

 

Everyone wants better healthcare.

What I am saying, which is not even debatable, is that a portion of the population is over covid-19. They just want life to return to normal.

So while the appetite to spend tax dollars on sport has been diminished for some in the general public, the appetite to spend tax dollars on sport hasn't been diminished for all in the general public. Are we discounting or downplaying this segment of the population?

The one "over" covid-19?... hmm. yeah.. 😅🤣😂 

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  • 1 month later...

An extra 15-20K at BMO sounds like a congestion nightmare. 

Im interested in seeing what the temporary setups would be. 5 k in the south, and 10k in the north. Food stand building used for extra concessions and washrooms. 

Im looking forward to it...somewhat.

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21 minutes ago, Shway said:

An extra 15-20K at BMO sounds like a congestion nightmare. 

Im interested in seeing what the temporary setups would be. 5 k in the south, and 10k in the north. Food stand building used for extra concessions and washrooms. 

Im looking forward to it...somewhat.

Can’t see it looking any better than it does now ,they will find a way to make it just as open as it is now , have no clue how to build a proper stadium especially for soccer in Toronto. If they want to do it right all they have to do is look at Anfield Liverpool’s stadium, which almost has the same type of layout as BMO Field , but Anfield is fully enclosed , enclose the open areas of BMO the way Anfield is enclosed and voila you have yourselves a proper stadium.

Edited by SoccMan
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Have they even thought about public transportation to the stadium, or do they expect everyone to walk 45 minutes from the core where all the hotels are located? 
I curse each and every TFC game that I have to take an additional 30 minute plus streetcar from Union Station when they should just let us all hop on a train that uses the Go Rails and get there in 5 minutes.

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1 hour ago, SoccMan said:

Can’t see it looking any better than it does now ,they will find a way to make it just as open as it is now , have no clue how to build a proper stadium especially for soccer in Toronto. If they want to do it right all they have to do is look at Anfield Liverpool’s stadium, which almost has the same type of layout as BMO Field , but Anfield is fully enclosed , enclose the open areas of BMO the way Anfield is enclosed and voila you have yourselves a proper stadium.

 

Liverpool never had a CFL tenant with a field 10 miles long necessitating stands to be knocked down.  

 

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I dont know if it has been mention in this thread or not but on another radio station, Manning mentioned that a final decsion on the venue selection would be made at the end of this year.   Seems that FIFA has already done its inspections.

https://www.tsn.ca/radio/toronto-1050/bill-manning-on-his-five-year-extension-the-2021-cfl-season-the-push-for-bmo-field-to-host-2026-world-cup-games-1.1609893

Its 14 minutes, Scroll to 6:30 minutes.  

Edited by Free kick
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On 4/20/2021 at 6:29 PM, SoccMan said:

Can’t see it looking any better than it does now ,they will find a way to make it just as open as it is now , have no clue how to build a proper stadium especially for soccer in Toronto. If they want to do it right all they have to do is look at Anfield Liverpool’s stadium, which almost has the same type of layout as BMO Field , but Anfield is fully enclosed , enclose the open areas of BMO the way Anfield is enclosed and voila you have yourselves a proper stadium.

We can't quite shake the exposed underside of bleachers with no actual building vibe we love so much in our Canadian stadiums. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • VinceA changed the title to 2026 World Cup - News, Updates and discussions

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