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Worry for Canada's 2026 World Cup Bid?


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A couple links about Expansion of BMO field for WC2026. https://t.co/ryW2ioflqf?amp=1  

I find it so strange that people have been hypnotized in to thinking hosting a couple soccer games is somehow a bad thing. With the amount of money we waist in this country on complete crap that bring

I think in the end you will see this all work out and Canada keep it’s allotment of games . It’s the World Cup   and no I’m not going to be content with getting some meaningless friendly games instead

4 hours ago, red card said:

94 WC had matches under Detroit's Silverdome - I was there for Brasil v Sweden.

Japan had matches under the Sapporo dome also in 02.

I was at the Brazil v Sweden match as well and US v Switzerland, it was so hot in the Dome for both those games, the grass didn't hold up so well but things have progressed, in 93 I was at the Germany v England match which I believe was the first ever indoor soccer match on natural grass! I don't see a problem with indoor matches!

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12 hours ago, SpecialK said:

I get your point. But this could bring a ton of Tourist to Canada. Tourist are gonna spend top dollar in hotels , restaurants, shops. It’s gonna give a huge boost to small business and the economy. I believe it’s a huge investment worth while. Because they spend the money to Reno everything tons of construction jobs are going to happen and after we can start to host more tournaments and bigger games. Also in other sports as well ( if they were smart lol ) 

Read Soccernomics.  The answer is hosting a tournament is not a profitable venture.  Tourists never spend enough to off set the cost of hosting.  And you can spend on any type of construction and have the same knock on effect.  That's not to say you should/shouldn't host a tournament.  There are other benefits too it, but they're less tangible.  It's why sports and governments always tout the "economic" benefits, because it's simpler to try and justify it.

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2 hours ago, Watchmen said:

Read Soccernomics.  The answer is hosting a tournament is not a profitable venture.  Tourists never spend enough to off set the cost of hosting.  And you can spend on any type of construction and have the same knock on effect.  That's not to say you should/shouldn't host a tournament.  There are other benefits too it, but they're less tangible.  It's why sports and governments always tout the "economic" benefits, because it's simpler to try and justify it.

See I don’t understand why Canadians have this huge fear of being bold. Hosting major events Like a World Cup , Olympics and other major tournaments puts a spotlight on Canada. It creates new infrastructure for sport and other things, it does bring Tourist in ( and with their experience might bring them back to Canada multiple times) regardless of the number and if they are done right they will bring  lasting memories. It promotes Canada. So what if it goes into the red alittle. 
let’s  look at the big O for example. That stadium has been used improperly it’s been neglected and it’s a huge waste. This huge unique stadium should be a jewel of the city but because of BS, Poor management and poor investment, it’s a S hole. When I was there  for the Toronto vs Montreal play off game 60,000 people were there, I saw the massive potential of the stadium. Once it’s upgraded we can have huge games like that again and with a beautiful updated stadium with restaurants, bars , proper concourse and new roof etc. Just imagine Canada versus France in the Big O even for a friendly or Canada vs USA in a WCQ game at the big O or in Vancouver or in Toronto. Canada should be hosting more tournaments , more big events. I would love to see a rugby World Cup here or diamond league track and field or summer and Winter Olympics, a country wide Gold Cup ! Or a youth World Cup or CONCACAF tournament. We don’t host anything ! it’s embarrassing

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7 minutes ago, SpecialK said:

See I don’t understand why Canadians have this huge fear of being bold. Hosting major events Like a World Cup , Olympics and other major tournaments puts a spotlight on Canada. It creates new infrastructure for sport and other things, it does bring Tourist in ( and with their experience might bring them back to Canada multiple times) regardless of the number and if they are done right they will bring  lasting memories. It promotes Canada. So what if it goes into the red alittle. 
let’s  look at the big O for example. That stadium has been used improperly it’s been neglected and it’s a huge waste. This huge unique stadium should be a jewel of the city but because of BS, Poor management and poor investment, it’s a S hole. When I was there  for the Toronto vs Montreal play off game 60,000 people were there, I saw the massive potential of the stadium. Once it’s upgraded we can have huge games like that again and with a beautiful updated stadium with restaurants, bars , proper concourse and new roof etc. Just imagine Canada versus France in the Big O even for a friendly or Canada vs USA in a WCQ game at the big O or in Vancouver or in Toronto. Canada should be hosting more tournaments , more big events. I would love to see a rugby World Cup here or diamond league track and field or summer and Winter Olympics, a country wide Gold Cup ! Or a youth World Cup or CONCACAF tournament. We don’t host anything ! it’s embarrassing

There's  a huge difference between hosting 10 games and 60+ games. 

There's just no possible way that governments gets a return on their investments for so little games costing this much money. 

From that point of view I get it.

The pat to recovery is mostly through tourists spending into the economy with part of it going back to governments in tax revenues and exposure.

10 games means that you're capturing a fraction of this while spending hundreds of millions. Just doesn't make sense.

Almost feels like the USSF knew this would happen by dictating the 60+10+10 formula. The less city involves, the less the "North American" theme will matter. 2026 will be a US World Cup (mostly thanks to us and Mexico) but our reward is 10 games each. 

Just hope that next time it's CONCACAF turn, we remember this and go solo in the 2040s. Hopefully, we'll have more stadiums and the next generation will be less naive than past generations. Americans are incapable of sharing. I'd rather we team up with Mexico and bypass them altogether 

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I am just tired of hearing how timid Canada is when it comes to hosting events of this scale.  We have hosted multiple Olympics.   They are the biggest, most complex sporting mega tournament on the planet.  Anyone proclaiming Canada’s lasting cowardice when it comes to event hosting needs to account for the fact that we seem to frequently throw our hat into the five rings.  To me, that suggests that it is less about some sort of national courage and more about the fact that, just maybe, the people that are held accountable for these sorts of decisions just don’t see the justification at this time, and under the current circumstances.  Not saying I am happy about it, but to cite some vague idea that we lack the courage to do it seems ridiculous.   

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4 hours ago, SpecialK said:

See I don’t understand why Canadians have this huge fear of being bold. Hosting major events Like a World Cup , Olympics and other major tournaments puts a spotlight on Canada. It creates new infrastructure for sport and other things, it does bring Tourist in ( and with their experience might bring them back to Canada multiple times) regardless of the number and if they are done right they will bring  lasting memories. It promotes Canada. So what if it goes into the red alittle. 
let’s  look at the big O for example. That stadium has been used improperly it’s been neglected and it’s a huge waste. This huge unique stadium should be a jewel of the city but because of BS, Poor management and poor investment, it’s a S hole. When I was there  for the Toronto vs Montreal play off game 60,000 people were there, I saw the massive potential of the stadium. Once it’s upgraded we can have huge games like that again and with a beautiful updated stadium with restaurants, bars , proper concourse and new roof etc. Just imagine Canada versus France in the Big O even for a friendly or Canada vs USA in a WCQ game at the big O or in Vancouver or in Toronto. Canada should be hosting more tournaments , more big events. I would love to see a rugby World Cup here or diamond league track and field or summer and Winter Olympics, a country wide Gold Cup ! Or a youth World Cup or CONCACAF tournament. We don’t host anything ! it’s embarrassing

Updated stadium!!!   Yeah right.  Dreams /Nightmares

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Nobody here knows the backroom deals that got us and Mexico only 10 games each (we should of had at least 20 each). With more games the more pressure our PQ lite government would have to agree with the previous government's decision to support the bid. It's so sad and it doesn't make us look too good.😨

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2 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

I am just tired of hearing how timid Canada is when it comes to hosting events of this scale.  We have hosted multiple Olympics.   They are the biggest, most complex sporting mega tournament on the planet.  Anyone proclaiming Canada’s lasting cowardice when it comes to event hosting needs to account for the fact that we seem to frequently throw our hat into the five rings.  To me, that suggests that it is less about some sort of national courage and more about the fact that, just maybe, the people that are held accountable for these sorts of decisions just don’t see the justification at this time, and under the current circumstances.  Not saying I am happy about it, but to cite some vague idea that we lack the courage to do it seems ridiculous.   

Having the event all to ourselves for a full month makes better fiscal sense to spend the money we're talking about than 10 games at that cost. The Feds were all in but for provinces, asking hundreds of millions for 3 games is a huge ask!

That's also why Alberta or BC are way more enthusiastic in spending billions for winter Olympics than hundreds of millions for 3 games each. I hate it but I can't say I don't see their logic - especially if they don't rate soccer.

There was a report that the COC was preparing a Joint Olympic bid for both Montreal and Toronto for summer games in the 2030s. See how fast the Government of Quebec makes it rain for that one - yet, they are turned off for paying for 3 games.

It's like the USSF knew this would happen with their 60-10-10 formula. If all 10 games ends up just being in Toronto, that's not really a North American bid, that's truly a Yank bid. Come 2026, see how bad we'll take a back seat on that event... doesn't look like it now but lots of people will feel bitter once those 10 meaningless game (except Canada games) have passed. You can bet that we will be in a group of meaningless countries and all the better teams will be in groups playing out of the US.

Hey, 10 games is better than nothing - what's done is done. We'll hopefully be alive when it will be CONCACAF turn again in the 2040s. I have high hope the next generation will look back and say "Hell no" to a co-bid with the US. We go at this SOLO next time, none of that naive BS again

Edited by Ansem
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49 minutes ago, Ansem said:

 

 

Hey, 10 games is better than nothing - what's done is done. We'll hopefully be alive when it will be CONCACAF turn again in the 2040s. I have high hope the next generation will look back and say "Hell no" to a co-bid with the US. We go at this SOLO next time, none of that naive BS again

I'm not so sure about that, there is just too much tax dollars required to prop up that number of matches in a tournament that really isn't ours, sadly the more I read and think about this, the less I want these games, we will have much important things to spend our tax dollars on coming out of this pandemic, 10 games isn't worth it! As I wrote in a previous post we can have some high level friendlies in existing stadiums as we did in 94, these may actually generate money!

Edited by gator
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Just now, gator said:

I'm not so sure about that, there is just too much tax dollars required to prop up that number of matches in a tournament that really isn't ours, sadly the more I read and think about this, the less I want these games, we will have much important things to spend our tax dollars on coming out of this pandemic, 10 games isn't worth it! As I wrote in a previous post we can have some high level friendlies in existing stadiums as we did in 94, these may actually generate money!

Tax dollars on what? Social assistance for people who lost their jobs because the government decided to shut them down?

The same people who created these negative economic consequences to begin with are suddenly going to have the know-how to reverse it all....with the people's tax dollars? 

And because of this we shouldn't host the World Cup and should have friendlies instead?

You got to be kidding me....

And by the way, the spending on infrastructure not only creates jobs, but it puts money in the pockets of the little guys who needs it most. The host of the tournament may lose money, sure, but the small guys and gals who gain employment or income from it, indirectly or directly, will benefit. And in our trying economic times the people at the lower rungs should be the focus, not whether the organizers with fat pockets will generate a profit or not. 

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41 minutes ago, gator said:

I'm not so sure about that, there is just too much tax dollars required to prop up that number of matches in a tournament that really isn't ours, sadly the more I read and think about this, the less I want these games, we will have much important things to spend our tax dollars on coming out of this pandemic, 10 games isn't worth it! As I wrote in a previous post we can have some high level friendlies in existing stadiums as we did in 94, these may actually generate money!

High level friendlies instead of actual World Cup games ? Sorry I’ll pass I’ve seen enough “ high level “ friendlies “yawn”  here in Canada since 1970’s no thanks . Would rather watch a regular season CPL game than a “high level friendly “ that means nothing. Ya 10 games is worth it , it’s the World Cup 10 games played in our country of course it’s worth it. Look I’ve been paying taxes since I started working at 15 I’m 56 now so a few more of my tax dollars going to support these games is worth every penny to me !

Edited by SoccMan
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1 hour ago, Ansem said:

Having the event all to ourselves for a full month makes better fiscal sense to spend the money we're talking about than 10 games at that cost. The Feds were all in but for provinces, asking hundreds of millions for 3 games is a huge ask!

That's also why Alberta or BC are way more enthusiastic in spending billions for winter Olympics than hundreds of millions for 3 games each. I hate it but I can't say I don't see their logic - especially if they don't rate soccer.

There was a report that the COC was preparing a Joint Olympic bid for both Montreal and Toronto for summer games in the 2030s. See how fast the Government of Quebec makes it rain for that one - yet, they are turned off for paying for 3 games.

It's like the USSF knew this would happen with their 60-10-10 formula. If all 10 games ends up just being in Toronto, that's not really a North American bid, that's truly a Yank bid. Come 2026, see how bad we'll take a back seat on that event... doesn't look like it now but lots of people will feel bitter once those 10 meaningless game (except Canada games) have passed. You can bet that we will be in a group of meaningless countries and all the better teams will be in groups playing out of the US.

Hey, 10 games is better than nothing - what's done is done. We'll hopefully be alive when it will be CONCACAF turn again in the 2040s. I have high hope the next generation will look back and say "Hell no" to a co-bid with the US. We go at this SOLO next time, none of that naive BS again

We will have Canada play World Cup games here in Canada and hopefully maybe even go on a bit of a run , just for this fact alone to see Canada play in a World Cup on home soil will be worth every penny!

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Both perspectives/takes are interesting. I get the high quality friendlies as they don’t require the big money. And I get the been there done that. I just don’t see the necessary stadium upgrades happening due to our current economic situation. 

With that BMO field, Olympic Stadium, Commonwealth Stadium are not hosting anything in their current states - they all need massive upgrades commitments for FIFA to approve them. 

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2 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Tax dollars on what? Social assistance for people who lost their jobs because the government decided to shut them down?

The same people who created these negative economic consequences to begin with are suddenly going to have the know-how to reverse it all....with the people's tax dollars? 

And because of this we shouldn't host the World Cup and should have friendlies instead?

You got to be kidding me....

And by the way, the spending on infrastructure not only creates jobs, but it puts money in the pockets of the little guys who needs it most. The host of the tournament may lose money, sure, but the small guys and gals who gain employment or income from it, indirectly or directly, will benefit. And in our trying economic times the people at the lower rungs should be the focus, not whether the organizers with fat pockets will generate a profit or not. 

I'm thinking just servicing the debt incurred during the pandemic will be taking up tax dollars, whether you agree with how it was handled or being handled doesn't matter, it is what it is! I would be all in if this was our tournament and money was being spent in several cities to improve infrastructure, to improve BMO for a handful of matches or The Big Owe for that matter is an expense that isn't necessary, when are we going to need the added capacity after the 5 or 6 matches? I don't disagree about infrastructure spending but let's spend it on something the general public will benefit from like transit, we had our LRT cancelled here in Hamilton because of financial constraints, I would rather have that back on track than spending billions on BMO and the Big Owe for a handful of matches and I am a soccer fan! My comments about the friendlies are not that they will replace the 10 lost WC matches, they will be a spin off of our neighbours to the south hosting the WC as happened in 94 and could be a good money maker in existing stadiums!

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11 hours ago, Watchmen said:

Read Soccernomics.  The answer is hosting a tournament is not a profitable venture.  Tourists never spend enough to off set the cost of hosting.  And you can spend on any type of construction and have the same knock on effect.  That's not to say you should/shouldn't host a tournament.  There are other benefits too it, but they're less tangible.  It's why sports and governments always tout the "economic" benefits, because it's simpler to try and justify it.

Mostly correct. If I remember correctly, in Soccernomics they said that hosting makes sense if you have the infrastructure already, or you need the infrastructure that would be built for the event. Qatar is an extreme example of a place that will lose oceans of money. It's a small country that doesn't need 10 40,000 seat stadiums, or whatever it is they are building for it. Those will be a bunch of white elephants no doubt. Maybe 1 national stadium type can get some decent use.

For Canada, our cities should have the capacity for the people. We don't need to create hole new subway systems or hotel infrastructure or restaurants to support the tournament. It's just the stadiums. If we can find a use for those stadiums after they have been renovated, then that could be a net win for the country. Whether it's for soccer games (as someone mentioned earlier, World Cup Qualifiers, Gold Cup matches, etc), bringing back the Expos, or hosting concerts, it could potentially work out as a positive. If the hosting of the tournament does spur more interest in the local game and it helps the CPL, getting more people out to games, expanding in other cities, that could be another ripple in the benefit to hosting this tournament (or these 10 games of this tournament).

I don't know if the money spent could be recouperated in these ways, but it's a bit less black and white than you portrayed it. But yeah, if you are going to spend a billion dollars renovating Olympic Stadium, you aren't going to make that back in hotel and restaurant spending during those 2 weeks or whatever it is. And in Soccernomics they also point out that if tourists already come to your city, the Olympics might not increase tourism and could even reduce tourism. There will be people thinking "I don't want to go there, it'll be too crammed with the Olympics. Let's go somewhere else."

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I think many of you missed my poor attempt at sarcasm and humour in my earlier post:

"If this sounds like I'm being negative, I'm not, I'm a glass half full guy! Just as in 94 we will get some top nations from around the world wanting to play friendlies in our ageing stadiums to prepare for World Cup USA, it will be a great chance for our eliminated program to rebuild and work towards qualifying in 2030!"

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17 minutes ago, Kent said:

I don't know if the money spent could be recouperated in these ways, but it's a bit less black and white than you portrayed it. 

Sure, I won't disagree. It's been a while since I've read it so some of the details are fuzzy. (Good book.  I should reread it). Anyway, my point was more that the event itself shouldn't be looked at as "it will pay for itself with all the economic benefits", because that's all incredibly hard to track. Canada gets a lot of tourists anyways. Money we don't spend for on a local sporting event still tends to get spent within the local economy anyway. There are benefits to hosting events (civic pride, cutting through red tape to actually get some needed infrastructure built...think train system to the airport in Vancouver for the Olympics). But the "economic benefits" are just much harder to justify than organizers will let on.

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12 hours ago, Watchmen said:

Read Soccernomics.  The answer is hosting a tournament is not a profitable venture.  Tourists never spend enough to off set the cost of hosting.  And you can spend on any type of construction and have the same knock on effect.  That's not to say you should/shouldn't host a tournament.  There are other benefits too it, but they're less tangible.  It's why sports and governments always tout the "economic" benefits, because it's simpler to try and justify it.

I think its all relative. I can say the Olympics brought a lot of necessary changes to Vancouver both economic and otherwise. The skytrain expansion and new highway to Whistler come to mind immediately. Not to say building a bunch of new stadiums in South Africa made a whole lot of sense. Looking at Brazil i can say there was a ton of BS around the World Cup but it was compounded by simultaneous Olympic BS. But ill take an English journo like Tim Vickery who doesn't hide his politics, who constantly railled against the WC claiming new stadiums are crumbling and abandoned. Its just not true. I read the new Maracana was a ghost town and without power and 2 weeks later my friend was sending me pics from there with 50k in attendance.. so dont believe everything you read. People have biased and an agenda. that being said Montreal is a world class city. Fix or do something with the Big O already, its embarrassing. World Cup sounds like a good enough reason as any. And fyi Soccernomics is a BS book full of double talk and nonsense. 

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1 minute ago, gator said:

I'm thinking just servicing the debt incurred during the pandemic will be taking up tax dollars, whether you agree with how it was handled or being handled doesn't matter, it is what it is! I would be all in if this was our tournament and money was being spent in several cities to improve infrastructure, to improve BMO for a handful of matches or The Big Owe for that matter is an expense that isn't necessary, when are we going to need the added capacity after the 5 or 6 matches? I don't disagree about infrastructure spending but let's spend it on something the general public will benefit from like transit, we had our LRT cancelled here in Hamilton because of financial constraints, I would rather have that back on track than spending billions on BMO and the Big Owe for a handful of matches and I am a soccer fan! My comments about the friendlies are not that they will replace the 10 lost WC matches, they will be a spin off of our neighbours to the south hosting the WC as happened in 94 and could be a good money maker in existing stadiums!

Would you rather your tax dollars go to bringing the World Cup to Canada or servicing an ever-increasing debt? The choice is pretty clear for me.

And fair enough about transit upgrades being more worthwhile than stadium upgrades, but even stadium upgrades give people work which helps to simulate the economy. Using tax dollars to service debt does not.

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Anyone who as lived in this country for the past year and is up in arms about a couple hundred million going to a stadium need to look a little closer. If you've organized a Liberal party fundraiser you probably received 100 million to build a few hundred ventilators in your shed. Im sure they're all sitting in a box collecting dust. Might as well put em in a time capsule and label it... 2020, the year we officially lost the plot

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23 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

Anyone who as lived in this country for the past year and is up in arms about a couple hundred million going to a stadium need to look a little closer. If you've organized a Liberal party fundraiser you probably received 100 million to build a few hundred ventilators in your shed. Im sure they're all sitting in a box collecting dust. Might as well put em in a time capsule and label it... 2020, the year we officially lost the plot

I think you're getting into dangerous territory here by singling out a particular political party (even if they are to blame). But regardless, nobody should be happy at the direction this country is going. And regardless of what has happened, that some of us on this Canadian soccer supporters form would suggest we should not host the world cup in Canada in 2026 because of tax dollars is a complete U-turn and tells me something has changed.....

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4 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I think you're getting into dangerous territory here by singling out a particular political party (even if they are to blame). But regardless, nobody should be happy at the direction this country is going. And regardless of what has happened, that some of us on this Canadian soccer supporters form would suggest we should not host the world cup in Canada in 2026 because of tax dollars is a complete U-turn and tells me something has changed.....

Well until someone else has decision making power im not sure who else to single out. Clearly things have changed and I know this to be true but im pointing out the constant hypocrisy of people complaining about waisted tax payer money when we're living thru the biggest theft of tax dollars I can think of

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