2026 World Cup - News, Updates and discussions

[narduch]

1 minute ago, Ansem said:

Quebec isn't better. Legault is a racist Fn joke. He still denies systemic racism so he can win the the non-Montreal ridings and Quebec City.

There's a reason why we've always said that if Quebec separated, Montreal would split from Quebec or face mass exodus

They call the provinces outside the Atlantic bubble the Covid-6 for a reason.

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, dyslexic nam said:

What I am saying is the perception of our regional diversity, and the complex federated system of governance we have evolved as a result, as a “weakness” is an idea that I reject - especially when it’s is backed up by a fallacious example.  

As long as you reject that idea I cannot give you an example you wouldn't consider fallacious. 

[dyslexic nam]

15 minutes ago, Obinna said:

As long as you reject that idea I cannot give you an example you wouldn't consider fallacious. 

The fallacious example is blaming the (very real) political regionalism in Canada for our crumbling WC bid.  It is fallacious because the US is more politically regionalized and divided than we are and yet it’s WC bid is apparently alive and well.  Therefore it is overly simplistic to blame our WC bid issues on the Canadian political landscape.  
 

As long as you reject THAT very basic argument I won’t be able to convince you otherwise. 

[Ansem]

39 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

The fallacious example is blaming the (very real) political regionalism in Canada for our crumbling WC bid.  It is fallacious because the US is more politically regionalized and divided than we are and yet it’s WC bid is apparently alive and well.  Therefore it is overly simplistic to blame our WC bid issues on the Canadian political landscape.  
 

As long as you reject THAT very basic argument I won’t be able to convince you otherwise. 

Our bid died when Blatter was removed. Had he stayed, it would have been a slam dunk.

Ottawa saying no isn't a surprise. This would just invite other provinces to do the same. There was nothing scientific amount what I said...just a bit fed up of our underachieving nation...

We can't even provide clean water to first nations people in the 21st century. If we can't even do that, then perhaps we have no business hosting anything really...

I know I'm all over the place...don't mind me

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, dyslexic nam said:

What country are you looking at as an example?   The US hasn’t withdrawn from the 2026 bid and yet it is at least as politically fragmented as Canada.  Those differences are so significant that they were on the verge of ripping the country apart recently.   Yet they are still all-in for the WC bid - which suggests that politics and regionalism aren’t the fatal forces behind our own weakening bid. 

We've tussled on this before.

I agree with you about politics ripping America apart (to be continued, btw). That is something different and besides the point. Regionalism is something entirely different. Regionalism puts local interests before national interests. 

"The Feds refusing to compensate Quebec share of its initial funding"

Here we have the current Quebec provincial government pulling out of a deal struck by the previous government. The deal of course was to financially back Montreal's role in Canada's World Cup bid, which is a national project. Is this not putting local interests before national? Are there similar examples of American bids failing in a similar fashion? 

2 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

I have said it before and still believe it to be true - governments are mired in COVID related debt right now.  Throwing money at a soccer tournament, no matter how important we happen to think it is, simply isn’t something that some folks are prioritizing right now.  Using that isolated issue to make broad generalizations about the Canadian political landscape (while ignoring analogous counter examples) just isn’t convincing. 

Are you are aware at how much the Bank of Canada have expanded their balance sheet? Since March 2020 they have been purchasing Provincial and Government of Canada bonds (debt) at an extraordinary clip. The very concept of the government going into debt is utterly meaningless, since they will just issue more bonds in exchange for more currency. How this all ends is another conversation, but my intention here is to push back on your idea that governments cannot and should not throw money around for the World Cup. The financial responsibility train has already left the station.  

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, dyslexic nam said:

The fallacious example is blaming the (very real) political regionalism in Canada for our crumbling WC bid.  It is fallacious because the US is more politically regionalized and divided than we are and yet it’s WC bid is apparently alive and well.  Therefore it is overly simplistic to blame our WC bid issues on the Canadian political landscape.  
 

As long as you reject THAT very basic argument I won’t be able to convince you otherwise. 

The political divide in the United States has a geographic distribution, such as urban vs. rural, or costal versus flyover. That is totally different than having loyalty for a particular region at the expense of the nation that region is a part of.  

[Obinna]

2 hours ago, Watchmen said:

Legitimate question here: do you think the majority of Canadians want to host the World Cup? Because the sentiment I get, regardless of province, is No.

I am not even sure the majority of Canadians are interested in sports, period.

What I do know is that hosting the World Cup, or any sporting event for that matter, is not an exercise in democracy. There is no majority rules. 

I know what you are getting at, but if there is no public support we could just pull the plug now on the whole thing, right? 

More likely I think we'll see a scenario where Toronto is the sole host city, which would be incredibly sad.

Edited February 26, 2021 by Obinna

[Cheeta]

1 hour ago, narduch said:

In my opinion Winnipeg or Regina should take advantage of this opportunity. 

Their stadiums at least kinda look like World Cup worthy stadiums.

LOL.  THAT will be the day.  Eat my hat...

The current Premier of Manitoba, if you're lucky enough to have never heard the man speak about anything and so wouldn't know better, is a right peice of work.  There will be no provincial funds for anything Winnipeg.  The city is seen as a revenue source the revenue source for provincial coffers, nothing else.

Besides a few exception the private sector Big Fish out here are only Big Fish because they've kept to a very Small Pond and avoided the scarey outside world beyond the frontiers of our isolated little portion of this planet. 

I would also add that the civic elders here couldn't properly organize a two car funeral.

Good things happen here in spite of, not because of, the powers that be. 

That should do it, think I've shit on about everyone now. 

Why do I live here?

 

[Watchmen]

10 minutes ago, Obinna said:

What I do know is that hosting the World Cup, or any sporting event for that matter, is not an exercise in democracy. There is no majority rules. 

Calgary voted against bidding on the 2026 Winter Olympics.  Vancouver voted for (albeit in a non-biding plebiscite) to host the 2010 Winter Olympics.

13 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I know what you are getting at, but if there is no public support we could just pull the plug now on the whole thing, right? 

I would say that's the path we're going down, yes.  It's certainly the option most cities and provincies have opted for so far.  It will be interesting to see/hear if Vancouver is back in the running, after Premier Horgan's recent statements about "wanting to host a major event to help with the economic recovery".

[dyslexic nam]

42 minutes ago, Obinna said:

The political divide in the United States has a geographic distribution, such as urban vs. rural, or costal versus flyover. That is totally different than having loyalty for a particular region at the expense of the nation that region is a part of.  

America literally just had an insurrection, driven by a mindset far more prevalent in specific regions of the country.  If that isn’t elevating your local interests/perspective at the expense of the nation, then you and I don’t have a lot of common ground to discuss politics.  I think you are making semantic distinctions to justify the conclusion when the basic ideas don’t do so.  Canada has urban vs rural divides like the US.  Look at a historic map of conservative support in Ontario.   Coastal vs flyover?  Compare the Atlantic region to the politics of the Prairies.  Sure they aren’t perfect analogies but they are different countries so there will always be specific differences.  

[dyslexic nam]

1 hour ago, Obinna said:

We've tussled on this before.

I agree with you about politics ripping America apart (to be continued, btw). That is something different and besides the point. Regionalism is something entirely different. Regionalism puts local interests before national interests. 

"The Feds refusing to compensate Quebec share of its initial funding"

Here we have the current Quebec provincial government pulling out of a deal struck by the previous government. The deal of course was to financially back Montreal's role in Canada's World Cup bid, which is a national project. Is this not putting local interests before national? Are there similar examples of American bids failing in a similar fashion? 

Are you are aware at how much the Bank of Canada have expanded their balance sheet? Since March 2020 they have been purchasing Provincial and Government of Canada bonds (debt) at an extraordinary clip. The very concept of the government going into debt is utterly meaningless, since they will just issue more bonds in exchange for more currency. How this all ends is another conversation, but my intention here is to push back on your idea that governments cannot and should not throw money around for the World Cup. The financial responsibility train has already left the station.  

The concept of governments going into debt isn’t meaningless.  A massive portion of annual revenues goes towards servicing that debt - and the higher the debt, the higher the share of your revenue stream you give up just to service it.  Those are less funds that you have to spend on programs and services - which are far more “sexy” expenditures (that get politicians re-elected) than simply dumping into the black hole of debt servicing.  That is why many governments, in good fiscal times, prioritize the gradual but steady payment of debts.  

[Bison44]

2 hours ago, nfitz said:

Tough luck for Montreal. But a great opportunity for Vancouver to get their act together. 

Any chance that Ottawa would look at a bid? Or any of the other CPL cities?

What is the standard??  I thought you need a 30,000 seat stadium with grass and several top notch training pitches close enough for the teams in the group.  If Van, Edm and Montreal are out, that leaves Toronto and....anyone?   Bueller?? Bueller??

[Bison44]

7 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

America literally just had an insurrection, driven by a mindset far more prevalent in specific regions of the country.  If that isn’t elevating your local interests/perspective at the expense of the nation, then you and I don’t have a lot of common ground to discuss politics.  I think you are making semantic distinctions to justify the conclusion when the basic ideas don’t do so.  Canada has urban vs rural divides like the US.  Look at a historic map of conservative support in Ontario.   Coastal vs flyover?  Compare the Atlantic region to the politics of the Prairies.  Sure they aren’t perfect analogies but they are different countries so there will always be specific differences.  

Hey my east coast brother, dont pit the stubble jumpers against the eye's the byes.  We are the runty little brothers in confederation and we need to stick together.  So wash down your prairie oysters with some screech while we watch the WC in TO.  

[Obinna]

43 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

America literally just had an insurrection, driven by a mindset far more prevalent in specific regions of the country.  If that isn’t elevating your local interests/perspective at the expense of the nation, then you and I don’t have a lot of common ground to discuss politics.  I think you are making semantic distinctions to justify the conclusion when the basic ideas don’t do so.  Canada has urban vs rural divides like the US.  Look at a historic map of conservative support in Ontario.   Coastal vs flyover?  Compare the Atlantic region to the politics of the Prairies.  Sure they aren’t perfect analogies but they are different countries so there will always be specific differences.  

That's quite the twist on what I am saying. 

Look, I am fully acknowledging that America has a very deep political divide. That divide has a geographic distribution we agree upon. I agree that we have a similar divide in Canada, with a similar geographic distribution. And in Canada this divide is not as deep. So in that regard I fully agree when you say we are not as divided as the United States. 

That doesn't matter though. America's political division literally nothing to do with hosting sporting events. Canada's much less severe political division literally has nothing to do with our failings in keeping this World Cup bid on the rails. I am not the one talking about politics here, you are.

You are conflating my argument about Canadian regionalism with Canadian politics, that's why you are misunderstanding.

Or perhaps I am failing to communicate my point, but either way we seem to be talking past each other. 

What I am saying is simply this: Canada has a way of doing things, whereby each province looks out for themselves at the expense (sometimes, not always) of national progress. I am calling that regionalism. It has historically manifested itself in our soccer landscape, at the grassroots. Here we also see Quebec doing what's best for Quebec and withdrawing support for a national showpiece (hosting the World Cup). It is the mindset of prioritizing local affairs I am highlighting, not the politics. I am not saying this is inherently wrong, just pointing out how it can and does get in the way of national progress.

I consider hosting the World Cup a moment of national pride and progress. 

Not asking you to agree with my viewpoint, but I am hoping my point is at least being understood. 

Cheers!

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, dyslexic nam said:

The concept of governments going into debt isn’t meaningless.  A massive portion of annual revenues goes towards servicing that debt - and the higher the debt, the higher the share of your revenue stream you give up just to service it.  Those are less funds that you have to spend on programs and services - which are far more “sexy” expenditures (that get politicians re-elected) than simply dumping into the black hole of debt servicing.  That is why many governments, in good fiscal times, prioritize the gradual but steady payment of debts.  

This paradigm you are describing is outdated and no longer applicable. If it were true governments would have been paying off debts during the "economic recovery" that followed the 2007/08 financial crisis. Instead of pay down debts, governments everywhere expanded debts. There is no more austerity in a world driven by modern monetary theory and resulting in record low interest rates, which soon will be negative (as they are in some European countries already).

Basically, what is missing from your post equation is that Ottawa, with the support of the Bank of Canada, can ultimately bailout any provincial government crippled by debt. Newfoundland is the latest example.  

And in that environment there is no incentive for financial responsibility. If there was we'd see it, but we don't. Proof is in the pudding, my friend.

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, Bison44 said:

Hey my east coast brother, dont pit the stubble jumpers against the eye's the byes.  We are the runty little brothers in confederation and we need to stick together.  So wash down your prairie oysters with some screech while we watch the WC in TO.  

You're doing it wrong.

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, Watchmen said:

Calgary voted against bidding on the 2026 Winter Olympics.  Vancouver voted for (albeit in a non-biding plebiscite) to host the 2010 Winter Olympics.

I would say that's the path we're going down, yes.  It's certainly the option most cities and provincies have opted for so far.  It will be interesting to see/hear if Vancouver is back in the running, after Premier Horgan's recent statements about "wanting to host a major event to help with the economic recovery".

Is this the exception or the norm?

[Watchmen]

3 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Is this the exception or the norm?

Depends.  Austria also voted against bidding for the 2026 Winter Olympics. Oslo killed their bid for the 2022 Olympics after parliment voted against it (a vote that crossed all politcal parties and a bid that had low support from the public).  So, I wouldn't go as far to say it's the "norm", but it's become more common.

[Obinna]

3 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

Depends.  Austria also voted against bidding for the 2026 Winter Olympics. Oslo killed their bid for the 2022 Olympics after parliment voted against it (a vote that crossed all politcal parties and a bid that had low support from the public).  So, I wouldn't go as far to say it's the "norm", but it's become more common.

Fair enough. And for the record I think that's a good thing, getting feedback from the public.

Edited February 26, 2021 by Obinna

[Ansem]

I think we can forget about Montreal now. Government of Quebec rejected the option of a new roof that can be open. 

Too expensive and only 1 firm willing to rebuild the roof 

The stadium will have a fixed roof and stay closed...which goes against what FIFA wants.

Last time I check, that conservative government in Quebec has very strong support in the polls (mainly outside of Montreal Island) - since you can win the election with zero votes from Montreal, don't expect them to care.

Finger crossed that FIFA lobbies Vancouver to get them back in... we will be down to Toronto and Edmonton very soon

What a disappointment 

 

[narduch]

Would grass work at BC place?

[gator]

Despite previous commitments I really don't think any governments are going to throw a bunch of money at a handful of matches as we try to recover financially from the pandemic, governments react to polls and I just don't see the general public being behind this! Heck I'm an ardent supporter of the game and I'm not sure tax dollars being used for this is prudent, it's such a shame, it's not like we are losing the whole tournament, just a handful of matches that will probably be difficult for the average fan to attend! Make no mistake, we just propped up an American World Cup which because of politics they may not have won on their own!

If this sounds like I'm being negative, I'm not, I'm a glass half full guy! Just as in 94 we will get some top nations from around the world wanting to play friendlies in our ageing stadiums to prepare for World Cup USA, it will be a great chance for our eliminated program to rebuild and work towards qualifying in 2030!

 

 

[SpecialK]

2 hours ago, gator said:

Despite previous commitments I really don't think any governments are going to throw a bunch of money at a handful of matches as we try to recover financially from the pandemic, governments react to polls and I just don't see the general public being behind this! Heck I'm an ardent supporter of the game and I'm not sure tax dollars being used for this is prudent, it's such a shame, it's not like we are losing the whole tournament, just a handful of matches that will probably be difficult for the average fan to attend! Make no mistake, we just propped up an American World Cup which because of politics they may not have won on their own!

If this sounds like I'm being negative, I'm not, I'm a glass half full guy! Just as in 94 we will get some top nations from around the world wanting to play friendlies in our ageing stadiums to prepare for World Cup USA, it will be a great chance for our eliminated program to rebuild and work towards qualifying in 2030!

 

 

I get your point. But this could bring a ton of Tourist to Canada. Tourist are gonna spend top dollar in hotels , restaurants, shops. It’s gonna give a huge boost to small business and the economy. I believe it’s a huge investment worth while. Because they spend the money to Reno everything tons of construction jobs are going to happen and after we can start to host more tournaments and bigger games. Also in other sports as well ( if they were smart lol ) 

[Obinna]

Wouldn't the World Cup arguably have a stimulative effect on the economy? 

[nfitz]

Given the pandemic situation, I don't think any big decisions are going to be made anytime soon. When things like the 2020 Olympics and Euro 2020 are being played in 2021, it's pretty clear that previously established timelines are out the window.

Things will look very different in a year or two.