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2021 CPL Season General News


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1 minute ago, Dominic94 said:

According to Rollins in his D2 article unless something changes the league may be at 8 teams for the foreseeable future. It’s likely that the Quebec team doesn’t happen and there is no investor for a Montreal team. There won’t be a prairie team for a while.

 

weird hearing this as people had said that Fraser Valley was it ? Was a go for 2022 and then talk of 2 MTL teams and the Bundesliga being involved.

I don't know how much travel actually costs and how much regionalization would cut down on it - but if it's as significant as some have suggested, I wonder if it would allow for more clubs to join CanPL if the league moved to an East/West set-up. I'd also be all for it if it meant more money can be distributed to the lower-ends of the roster. 

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19 minutes ago, yellowsweatygorilla said:

I don't know how much travel actually costs and how much regionalization would cut down on it - but if it's as significant as some have suggested, I wonder if it would allow for more clubs to join CanPL if the league moved to an East/West set-up. I'd also be all for it if it meant more money can be distributed to the lower-ends of the roster. 

It’s fair.

im not sure I believe the 0 expansion interest I mean I remember seeing the Can PL was literally in Glasscity’s Dms after he tweeted Fraser Valley was coming aboard...really sad if true. Can’t go to East west with 4 teams can we ?

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30 minutes ago, Dominic94 said:

It’s fair.

im not sure I believe the 0 expansion interest I mean I remember seeing the Can PL was literally in Glasscity’s Dms after he tweeted Fraser Valley was coming aboard...really sad if true. Can’t go to East west with 4 teams can we ?

Well going to East West would assume expansion teams ready to jump in. Say if we got Fraser Valley and Saskatoon in the West, and Quebec/K-W in the East, 6 teams per conference that play each other 4 times, play the other conference once (so 3 away legs per team) to cut travel costs? 3 team playoff - east/west champs and single table leader?

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37 minutes ago, yellowsweatygorilla said:

Well going to East West would assume expansion teams ready to jump in. Say if we got Fraser Valley and Saskatoon in the West, and Quebec/K-W in the East, 6 teams per conference that play each other 4 times, play the other conference once (so 3 away legs per team) to cut travel costs? 3 team playoff - east/west champs and single table leader?

Yeah but what if we don’t have any expansion ?

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It stands to reason that few investors would be willing to pay a $10M entry fee to the league without certainty that they can generate gate revenue.  Most entrepreneurs are trying to hold on to their companies and assets and employees right now.  Starting a company that is built around attendance is not palatable be it a restaurant, coffee shop, amusement park, mall or a sports team.

The league may have to get creative on financing the entry fee to advance expansion in 2022 like amortizing the fee over 5 years.  For the reasons listed above, the more national coverage and markets the league is in, just like any business, it will benefit from scaling, driving down costs and access a broader base of national advertisers.

It's also possible that the contract with OneSoccer includes a clause mandating the expansion of the league over the term of the contract (10 years I think).  Now, that contract is arguably in a Force Majeure like every contract on the planet but it wouldn't surprise me if the league is more than "motivated" and has contractual obligations to expand.  Most likely, those expansion fees are how the initial equity capital will be repaid and a dividend will be paid out based on growing league revenues (TV, ads etc.).  Therefore, it's hard to envision how the entry fee is waived or reduced.  

IMO, this is a long term play for investors muddied by the pandemic and we are so lucky that all 8 teams continue to operate.  It wasn't too long ago that some, not all, on this forum were talking about how the league was "pie in the sky" and would question who would have deep enough pockets to run a team.....well, it could not have been worse operating conditions for the 2nd and potentially the 3rd year of the league. 

10 years from now, I hope people can look back on this period with objectivity and see how amazing owners like Bob Young are.  The CPL is special.  It will get even better with time. It will surpass the CFL as it is way more accessible with affordable stadia requirements and can be accessed by a lot more markets.

Players should be paid more and Duane, the players and the union have a right to point that out.  I want the standard of the league to be even better to produce players sold abroad every year.  Frankly, I don't see much point in watching a 30+ year old Kyle Bekker take playing time away from someone who could develop into an even better player for the National Team Program.

Look at $40k as a floor for what it is.  If you take a 23 player roster with a floor of $40k you get $920,000.

Assuming you have stars, internationals and veteran players who want more than that, you're probably looking at $1.2 M for 23 players roster not including club admin and overhead.  So, Marcel De Jong is quietly asking for the salary cap of $500k to nearly triple.  Marcel, correctly from the player's viewpoint, framed it for fans to digest and support the union.

These base salaries are also above what most individual Canadian's are paid for a full year of work (CPL 5-ish month off-season).

https://careers.workopolis.com/advice/how-much-canadians-are-earning-by-province/

After tax income, unattached individuals

  • Canada: $27,300
  • Newfoundland and Labrador: $22,100
  • Prince Edward Island: $23,300
  • Nova Scotia: $26,300
  • New Brunswick: $23,200
  • Quebec: $26,200
  • Ontario: $26,600
  • Manitoba: $27,400
  • Saskatchewan: $32,000
  • Alberta: $36,500
  • British Columbia: $25,200

So, if this is a gate driven league, assuming 5,000 seats at each stadium with $30 tickets with 14 home games results in $2.1 M in gate revenue.   Less $1.2 in salaries = $900,000 then comes the overhead, event rentals, admin, TRAVEL, taxes etc.  For sure, clubs would lose money.  Travel alone would be around $400 k for flight, accommodations, food, transport etc.   And yes, let's assume the $10 M entry fee is still around.....you have to be selling a lot jerseys, selling a lot of beer in a packed stadium and selling players for hefty transfer fees to break even.

Then it becomes a question if people are willing to pay $40 or $50 a ticket instead of $30.  Do people want to pay $15 a beer? Do people want to watch York United for the same cost as TFC? etc.

The league needs more advertiser and higher gate revenue to substantiate increasing player salaries.  Something that has been slowed by the pandemic and is probably 3-4 years off from realization.

There is the emotive side of the discussion and there is the proforma side of a discussion.  I understand both view points and the sentiment people are being left behind in wages and not being paid what they are worth. 

If someone is more familiar with the P/L of club please share.

Edited by DigzTFC
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1 hour ago, yellowsweatygorilla said:

Then I am not sure if East/West makes sense. Though I suppose to old CPSL had done that for a bit with even less teams.

The league painted itself into a corner on where it could easily and quickly expand to with its stadium requirements, but on the flipside I guess they would point out that what they originally had in mind won't be sustainable without over 5000 seats being regularly filled with a paying customer.

Meanwhile, if you are interested in launching a pro soccer team in the Fraser valley, Kelowna or Saskatoon and you see many/most CanPL clubs failing to consistently fill those 5000+ seats, do you plough right on ahead with expensive stadium solutions to join the party or recalibrate in economic model terms to something lower budget and closer to what was in the Easton Report with a U-23 focus that you can easily do with what's already there in infrastructure terms?

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On 3/3/2021 at 10:06 AM, DigzTFC said:

It stands to reason that few investors would be willing to pay a $10M entry fee to the league without certainty that they can generate gate revenue.  Most entrepreneurs are trying to hold on to their companies and assets and employees right now.  Starting a company that is built around attendance is not palatable be it a restaurant, coffee shop, amusement park, mall or a sports team.

The league may have to get creative on financing the entry fee to advance expansion in 2022 like amortizing the fee over 5 years.  For the reasons listed above, the more national coverage and markets the league is in, just like any business, it will benefit from scaling, driving down costs and access a broader base of national advertisers.

It's also possible that the contract with OneSoccer includes a clause mandating the expansion of the league over the term of the contract (10 years I think).  Now, that contract is arguably in a Force Majeure like every contract on the planet but it wouldn't surprise me if the league is more than "motivated" and has contractual obligations to expand.  Most likely, those expansion fees are how the initial equity capital will be repaid and a dividend will be paid out based on growing league revenues (TV, ads etc.).  Therefore, it's hard to envision how the entry fee is waived or reduced.  

IMO, this is a long term play for investors muddied by the pandemic and we are so lucky that all 8 teams continue to operate.  It wasn't too long ago that some, not all, on this forum were talking about how the league was "pie in the sky" and would question who would have deep enough pockets to run a team.....well, it could not have been worse operating conditions for the 2nd and potentially the 3rd year of the league. 

10 years from now, I hope people can look back on this period with objectivity and see how amazing owners like Bob Young are.  The CPL is special.  It will get even better with time. It will surpass the CFL as it is way more accessible with affordable stadia requirements and can be accessed by a lot more markets.

Players should be paid more and Duane, the players and the union have a right to point that out.  I want the standard of the league to be even better to produce players sold abroad every year.  Frankly, I don't see much point in watching a 30+ year old Kyle Bekker take playing time away from someone who could develop into an even better player for the National Team Program.

Look at $40k as a floor for what it is.  If you take a 23 player roster with a floor of $40k you get $920,000.

Assuming you have stars, internationals and veteran players who want more than that, you're probably looking at $1.2 M for 23 players roster not including club admin and overhead.  So, Marcel De Jong is quietly asking for the salary cap of $500k to nearly triple.  Marcel, correctly from the player's viewpoint, framed it for fans to digest and support the union.

These base salaries are also above what most individual Canadian's are paid for a full year of work (CPL 5-ish month off-season).

https://careers.workopolis.com/advice/how-much-canadians-are-earning-by-province/

After tax income, unattached individuals

  • Canada: $27,300
  • Newfoundland and Labrador: $22,100
  • Prince Edward Island: $23,300
  • Nova Scotia: $26,300
  • New Brunswick: $23,200
  • Quebec: $26,200
  • Ontario: $26,600
  • Manitoba: $27,400
  • Saskatchewan: $32,000
  • Alberta: $36,500
  • British Columbia: $25,200

So, if this is a gate driven league, assuming 5,000 seats at each stadium with $30 tickets with 14 home games results in $2.1 M in gate revenue.   Less $1.2 in salaries = $900,000 then comes the overhead, event rentals, admin, TRAVEL, taxes etc.  For sure, clubs would lose money.  Travel alone would be around $400 k for flight, accommodations, food, transport etc.   And yes, let's assume the $10 M entry fee is still around.....you have to be selling a lot jerseys, selling a lot of beer in a packed stadium and selling players for hefty transfer fees to break even.

Then it becomes a question if people are willing to pay $40 or $50 a ticket instead of $30.  Do people want to pay $15 a beer? Do people want to watch York United for the same cost as TFC? etc.

The league needs more advertiser and higher gate revenue to substantiate increasing player salaries.  Something that has been slowed by the pandemic and is probably 3-4 years off from realization.

There is the emotive side of the discussion and there is the proforma side of a discussion.  I understand both view points and the sentiment people are being left behind in wages and not being paid what they are worth. 

If someone is more familiar with the P/L of club please share.

Agree mostly but it should be pointed out the 500K figure is only an estimate by the players association and the cap has all but been confirmed to be 750K so an average of 32,600 per season, 9 month contracts apparently for many, which works out to roughly the equivalent of 43,500 per year at 12 months. There's also been information that the CPL clubs were close or at this 750k cap figure for 2019.

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