General MLS Talk 2021

[Ansem]

1 hour ago, Bison44 said:

I'm really confused on this one.  Van and the Impact lost their shirt on USL last time around (millions)  "Dumpster fire" is the term I remember being used over and over.  But more teams that have some sort of incentive playing CDN kids is always good. And this would open up more opportunities for some of the VAN kids. Or will they just use it to keep end of the bench vets sharp for MLS play??

  But what are they trying to get done that wasnt getting done with outright farm clubs and affiliates in USL?  Very strange but I assume Garber and Curtis have it all planned out.  

You know... What Don really wanted to say is :

 

To USL

Edited December 7, 2021 by Ansem

[narduch]

1 hour ago, Bison44 said:

I'm really confused on this one.  Van and the Impact lost their shirt on USL last time around (millions)  "Dumpster fire" is the term I remember being used over and over.  But more teams that have some sort of incentive playing CDN kids is always good. And this would open up more opportunities for some of the VAN kids. Or will they just use it to keep end of the bench vets sharp for MLS play??

  But what are they trying to get done that wasnt getting done with outright farm clubs and affiliates in USL?  Very strange but I assume Garber and Curtis have it all planned out.  

Seems like the goal is to destroy USL and become the source for all levels of soccer.

Their partnership with USL basically helped kill NASL.

And now their breakaway is taking on USL.

I don't think it will be successful this time however.

[Bison44]

But I thought The Don was all for USL....is it more like Vito assures USL he wants peaceful partnership, but secretly Micheal is going to eliminate the 3 USLs..ie Barzini, Moe Greene, Tessio et al??  

[Big_M]

and usl is probably accelerating the arrival of promotion relegation to make it more interesting and survive...then you also have nisa...lower league wars are back on

[Bison44]

Hmm, I feel so much better about not having MLS farm clubs in CPL that could be aribitrarily yanked out of the league to facilitate the downfall of said league. 

[narduch]

52 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Hmm, I feel so much better about not having MLS farm clubs in CPL that could be aribitrarily yanked out of the league to facilitate the downfall of said league. 

Damn that is a real check mate for OTP's 'CPL should work with the MLS clubs' narrative 

[Watchmen]

4 hours ago, Bison44 said:

I'm really confused on this one.  Van and the Impact lost their shirt on USL last time around (millions)  "Dumpster fire" is the term I remember being used over and over.  But more teams that have some sort of incentive playing CDN kids is always good. And this would open up more opportunities for some of the VAN kids. Or will they just use it to keep end of the bench vets sharp for MLS play??

  But what are they trying to get done that wasnt getting done with outright farm clubs and affiliates in USL?  Very strange but I assume Garber and Curtis have it all planned out.  

I think there's some differences here. I think the USL clubs last time around were set up with the thinking that they would be profitable on their own (ie ticket sales, sponsorships, etc would be enough to support it). That was always a ridiculous assumption. I think they're going in to it this time with the goal being more focused on player development and yes, keeping some end-of-the-bench players active.

And I think that what they also found was that USL clubs would normally be stacked with veterans playing for their livelihood, going up against MLS kids who weren't quite there yet. If the kid went to a USL affiliate (or, frankly, was loaned to the CPL) the player wasn't necessarily getting any playing time, as the USL (or CPL) club was under no obligation to play them.

I don't think this is an attempt to "destroy" the USL. And the MLS wasn't attempting to destroy NASL with the previous partnership - that was the other way around (USL partnered up in order to destroy NASL). MLS has nothing to fear from USL. Rather, i think this is more of an acknowledgement of what we've always known for some time - MLS on it's own is not a great path to develop players. It's more of an end destination (before the truly talented ones jump to Europe). This is more of an attempt to build a better pathway for their academy players. I have no idea how long they'll stick with it or if they'll ultimately decide it's not cost effective. 

 

Edited December 8, 2021 by Watchmen

[SoccMan]

47 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

I think there's some differences here. I think the USL clubs last time around were set up with the thinking that they would be profitable on their own (ie ticket sales, sponsorships, etc would be enough to support it). That was always a ridiculous assumption. I think they're going in to it this time with the goal being more focused on player development and yes, keeping some end-of-the-bench players active.

And I think that what they also found was that USL clubs would normally be stacked with veterans playing for their livelihood, going up against MLS kids who weren't quite there yet. If the kid went to a USL affiliate (or, frankly, was loaned to the CPL) the player wasn't necessarily getting any playing time, as the USL (or CPL) club was under no abdication to play them.

I don't think this is an attempt to "destroy" the USL. And the MLS wasn't attempting to destroy NASL with the previous partnership - that was the other way around (USL partnered up in order to destroy NASL). MLS has nothing to fear from USL. Rather, i think this is more of an acknowledgement of what we've always known for some time - MLS on it's own is not a great path to develop players. It's more of an end destination (before the truly talented ones jump to Europe). This is more of an attempt to build a better pathway for their academy players. I have no idea how long they'll stick with it or if they'll ultimately decide it's not cost effective. 

 

Quiet your making to much sense bud .

[Ansem]

CF Montreal Olivier Renard provided some answers on why they aren't joining MLS Next Pro

• As the project was being setup, rules and vision kept changing along the way
• While forbidden to talk on specifics by the league, says that rules still aren't clear, vision of where they want to go with this still not full defined
• Rules on import still not clear
• "As is", the project is incompatible with the way they want to manage their young players
• Can't justify spending millions on a project without a clear vision / rules
• Their U23 playing PLSQ clubs (Quebec D3) has some success and they are in talks to put a club there - Just like Vancouver will do in BC League 1
• Their #1 priority for their best prospects is to loan them to CPL based on the results with Sirois, Yao, Rea and Pantemis.*

*Reports are saying CF Montreal are pushing CPL to allow more than 5 loans from MLS.

Edited December 8, 2021 by Ansem

[Ivan]

I actually agree with Renard here.  Hard to understand why the Canadian MLS teams would spend millions when they could develop their players in CPL, given the success so far that mainly Montreal has seen.  

Something has to be done however.  It is criminal how little playing time some of the best young prospects got this year.  Habibulah, Campagna, Facchineri, JMR, Nelson, Mbongue, Assis, Giraldo (hurt), Zouhir.

I don't think the U23 league will hurt the amount of players coming to the CPL.  They will now just come later.  Instead of being cast off at 18-19, now they'll last under TFC and VWC wraps until 21-22.  Which explains why TFC and VWC bought in.  They will get first crack at most of the best young prospects before CPL can grab them.  Plenty of players still slip through the cracks though!

[SpursFlu]

On 12/7/2021 at 5:24 AM, Ansem said:

Not sure why we're talking CPL but my comment is to the obvious fact that this will be a money pit unless they can sell players or make the kind of revenue making up for this...

 

And....

MLS isn't the EPL, those club revenues makes an endeavors painless on the wallet. For this reserve league to be sustainable, they will have to sell way more players than they have been doing thus far at the very least.

I get the initiative, which don't get me wrong, is good but this won't be cheap to run and not convinced they'll do better in attendance 

 

So people would rather support a club who independently represents their community? How many times do we need to go thru this exercise before this becomes clear to the powers that be. 

I would like to see the USL find it's way in to Concacaf competitions. Really just to annoy the MLS

Edited December 8, 2021 by SpursFlu

[Watchmen]

3 hours ago, Ivan said:

I actually agree with Renard here.  Hard to understand why the Canadian MLS teams would spend millions when they could develop their players in CPL, given the success so far that mainly Montreal has seen.  

Something has to be done however.  It is criminal how little playing time some of the best young prospects got this year.  Habibulah, Campagna, Facchineri, JMR, Nelson, Mbongue, Assis, Giraldo (hurt), Zouhir.

Facchineri was loaned to the USL, where he received little playing time. Campagna (and Boehmer) were loaned to the CPL, where they received little playing time. That is the reality of loans, as we often see with Canadians in Europe as well - the team loaning player is under no obligation to play that player. I'm sure it's why the Whitecaps will be moving forward with this Next team, to actually get some of their players playing again. And if they don't make the MLS team full time, I'm sure the CPL will continue to benefit by scoping up the best players that are cut.

[red card]

In this week's press conference, Garber mentioned the new media deal will be announced early next year.

While the US men & women national team matches won't be part of the package anymore, MLS is filling this hole by throwing in Next, Next Pro, Leagues Cup and local rights. Basically, MLS is using ligaMX popularity as leverage and tempting streaming platforms with promise of loads of inventory.

The Athletic reported the TSN/TVA deal is worth $US15 million per year. Given the US deal is US$90 million/year which includes US national teams, TSN/TVA overpaid a bit.

Ratings are highly dependent on the success of 3 teams. So, I only see Leagues Cup as tempting TSN/TVA to pay more for a new deal but not that much more since Mexican football doesn't have much of an audience in Canada. Next & Next Pro are just filler if shown on linear tv and inventory clutter for TSN Direct. Local rights/blackouts aren't relevant in Canada.

Edited December 9, 2021 by red card

[Ansem]

This article is enlightening - sorry for not romanticizing/glorifying everything MLS is doing.

 

Maybe, just maybe Montreal understood this too and are rightfully questioning the point of this league, which in my opinion is to compete with USL. 

 

Call me skeptical about the results and if they'll do significantly better than status quo

 

 

 

“They compete in these second teams, but it is not a good league, the consistency is not physically strong,” 

 

“Here, they play with no spectators. It’s not strong enough and that’s why it’s so difficult for the English players [to develop] sometimes at big clubs like City.”

 

-Pep Guardiola

 

Better model would have been this

 

“Yeah, I agree with anyone that says u23 football is bad. I hated the league. They do it differently in other countries like Spain, where a La Liga club’s B team will play in tier 2 or 3 against the first-teams of other professional clubs. You get exposed to men’s football, to getting beaten up a little bit, which I think any young player needs. By playing 23’s football it’s fake, it’s not real.”

 

-Luis Binks

[CanadaFan123]

This all seems so silly. They’re essentially putting lipstick on a pig. They started off with the English model, back when both had reserve sides then they switched to the German/Spanish/Dutch model of having second teams compete at a pro level. Now they’re going back to the English model, which has since had a facelift.

It’s reserve team football and it will be a poor level. Proper prospects will still need to go out on loan to develop just as in England. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

A team won the league. It was on DAZN here, I watched about 15 minutes. Anything else you want to know?

 

[Unnamed Trialist]

5 minutes ago, Pasta484fanguy said:

Would you say that the CPL final was better? I watched both and MLS Cup had L1O quality at times.

MLS was like watching a playoff promotion match of two teams from Championship, and CPL was like watching a promotion playoff from League Two to League One.

At least the MLS Cup had a nice crowd, and had a bit of drama with that late Portland goal.

Edited December 19, 2021 by Unnamed Trialist