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6 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Was Altidore's original a response to the OneSoccer tweet? Pleased if it was, it's also a stance. 

 

As far as I can tell, yes. The chronology appears to be:

  • Onesoccer does a segment about whether Twellman's condemnation of US failure to qualify for Olympics is fair, then tweets a link to the segment quoting Twellman's "pathetic and laughable" description of their campaign.
  • Altidore responds to the Onesoccer tweet by saying that Twellman's national team career was what was pathetic and laughable, implying that he's only got a high profile commentary gig because he is white & has connections and it should be going to DaMarcus Beasly or Mia Hamm, neither of who are white men of course and both of whom had more successful US national team careers
  • Altidore has a 2nd tweet disparaging Twellman for comments he made about Altidore, saying Twellman isn't half the man or player Altidore was and that Altidore is a hero to kids in Haiti & the Carribbean
  • Altidore does a third tweet saying that he (Altidore) is a success because there are systemic racism issues in the US making it more difficult for black players to succeed at soccer [I'm paraphrasing here]
  • Twellman responds by saying he supports Jozy's charitable foundation and encourages other to support
  • Altidore responds that he doesn't want or need Twellman's charity and apparently implies that Twellman is a racist. I didn't appreciate the latter bit until someone else on twitter (when I started to look into this) indicated that Altidore's quote of "big, strong, powerful" is apparently what Twellman often uses to describe black soccer players (at least, so some US fans say).

 

Its been a good week for onesoccer. their youtube highlights packages of the two Canada national team games in the last week have blown away anything else they have got, and now they are sparking accusations of racism between high profile Americans. They must be sitting back now munching on popcorn like the rest of us waiting to see if the saga continues.

 

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I wonder how much of it is "we can't bring any revenue into the stadium this year, so MLSE board is giving us less money to sign players for the time being, so looks like we'll actually have to play t

Whatever happens, I am more motivated to watch TFC play than I have been in years.    I recognize this may not be typical for some TFC fans but for me the kids are a huge incentive to tune in.

As far as I can tell, yes. The chronology appears to be: Onesoccer does a segment about whether Twellman's condemnation of US failure to qualify for Olympics is fair, then tweets a link to the s

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11 hours ago, Gian-Luca said:

TFC won their first (only?) pre-season match 4-2 over Columbus, with Perruzza getting the 4th and Auro converting from the PK spot (nice to see someone else besides Pozuelo converting).

https://www.tsn.ca/toronto-fc-defeats-columbus-crew-sc-in-mls-pre-season-game-1.1617016

They beat Inter Miami's U23s 3-0.  Can't remember all the scorers, but Pozuelo and Mullins had two of them.  If it was a young gun Canadian, I would have remembered the 3rd. 😉

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1 hour ago, Gian-Luca said:

As far as I can tell, yes. The chronology appears to be:

  • Onesoccer does a segment about whether Twellman's condemnation of US failure to qualify for Olympics is fair, then tweets a link to the segment quoting Twellman's "pathetic and laughable" description of their campaign.
  • Altidore responds to the Onesoccer tweet by saying that Twellman's national team career was what was pathetic and laughable, implying that he's only got a high profile commentary gig because he is white & has connections and it should be going to DaMarcus Beasly or Mia Hamm, neither of who are white men of course and both of whom had more successful US national team careers
  • Altidore has a 2nd tweet disparaging Twellman for comments he made about Altidore, saying Twellman isn't half the man or player Altidore was and that Altidore is a hero to kids in Haiti & the Carribbean
  • Altidore does a third tweet saying that he (Altidore) is a success because there are systemic racism issues in the US making it more difficult for black players to succeed at soccer [I'm paraphrasing here]
  • Twellman responds by saying he supports Jozy's charitable foundation and encourages other to support
  • Altidore responds that he doesn't want or need Twellman's charity and apparently implies that Twellman is a racist. I didn't appreciate the latter bit until someone else on twitter (when I started to look into this) indicated that Altidore's quote of "big, strong, powerful" is apparently what Twellman often uses to describe black soccer players (at least, so some US fans say).

 

Its been a good week for onesoccer. their youtube highlights packages of the two Canada national team games in the last week have blown away anything else they have got, and now they are sparking accusations of racism between high profile Americans. They must be sitting back now munching on popcorn like the rest of us waiting to see if the saga continues.

Certainly, this notoriety for OneSoccer, which may not be so well known in the States, is great for them. It takes them out of the shadows. 

I have no idea who is right between Jozy and Taylor; the former does get his back up with not just US journalists but fans too, he once even seemed to argue it was because he was Jehova's Witness, didn't he?

All this plays out well for certain players who may be deciding between the US and Canadian national team and who feel strongly enough about questions of race to take a knee for a national anthem. Won't say who but I am not off topic for this thread.

Edited by Unnamed Trialist
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To be fair, Twellman was a very good MLS striker and had his playing days cut short at 29 with injuries.  Not as good as Altidore at all though.  He is kind of a dick that has been rewarded with noteriety from his rants against US soccer establishment, so his mini rant about the US u-23 failure was very predictable.  The ESPN loud mouth "hot take" pseudo controversial sports journo is a tired cliche at this point.  I dont know why Jozy responded to him, as it just gets Twellman more clicks, more exposure etc which is exactly what he wants.  But hey, if its ok for Twellman to lag US soccer, it should be ok for Jozy to slag Twellman over his shortcomings for the national team.  

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I have a feeling that, when the time comes whereby Altidore has to move on, his departure is not going to be a smooth one.  There is going to be some broken dishes and chinaware.   He is outspoken and at the same time loyal to the city and fans to the point that it clouds the business realities of player and club realtionships.  Given his personality, i hope his next move is to a Liga Mx team and not another MLS team.  

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6 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

 

I have no idea who is right between Jozy and Taylor;

 

I've a feeling they might both be wrong.

Now that I am at least aware of what Altidore's issue with Twellman is (not saying I necessarily agree with it), I am curious as to why he has it in for Bobby Warshaw. Two years ago in a post-TFC press scrum where another player was being interviewed, I noted (in a post that's probably in the 2019 TFC season thread) that I could hear someone in the background saying "Bobby Warshaw is trash! Bobby Warshaw is trash!" in the background. RS believed it to be Altidore's voice and when re-listening at the time, I concurred. This latest dig at Warshaw (who isn't even on MLS Extra time anymore and I don't think has been since 2019) seems to confirm it, but not sure what his issue with Warshaw is. That he was a fairly obscure player and so shouldn't be allowed to be a pundit? That he's a "white boy" as well? That he said something complimentary about black players' physique which Jozy is construing to be racist? All three are options on the table after the Twellman saga.

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Bobby Warshaw,  as i recall, was always the type who steered away from controversy and criticism of players.   I dont ever recall him criticizing individual players or ever passing any kind judgement on players and plays.  He would focus on the tactical aspects of the game.   I too am surprised to hear that any player would ever have an issue with anything he would say.  

That said, i havent listen to all the extra time podcast.  And when i do, it tends to be during the MLS season and when i am more interested in the league (which is usually when TFC is going well).

Edited by Free kick
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29 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

I've a feeling they might both be wrong.

Now that I am at least aware of what Altidore's issue with Twellman is (not saying I necessarily agree with it), I am curious as to why he has it in for Bobby Warshaw. Two years ago in a post-TFC press scrum where another player was being interviewed, I noted (in a post that's probably in the 2019 TFC season thread) that I could hear someone in the background saying "Bobby Warshaw is trash! Bobby Warshaw is trash!" in the background. RS believed it to be Altidore's voice and when re-listening at the time, I concurred. This latest dig at Warshaw (who isn't even on MLS Extra time anymore and I don't think has been since 2019) seems to confirm it, but not sure what his issue with Warshaw is. That he was a fairly obscure player and so shouldn't be allowed to be a pundit? That he's a "white boy" as well? That he said something complimentary about black players' physique which Jozy is construing to be racist? All three are options on the table after the Twellman saga.

I forgot about that Warshaw anecdote. Thinking back, it was definitely Altidore's voice (IMO).

As for the point about Black players' physiques, Altidore has always been described as "powerful", "athletic", etc. (which he is, of course, along with other good attributes), but he's noted that Black players are often described as such by (usually white) commentators even when other descriptors should/could also be used. It's coded language that he doesn't agree with and has advocated against, even though he himself is a specimen of a player.

Think about how African teams are often portrayed at the World Cup — commentators gush about their physicality and athleticism, but to make it to that level at least some (if not all) of the players have to have a high soccer IQ, be a good passer, well-organized and so on. Even though it's meant to be positive, commentators only focusing on Black players' physical attributes can be construed as a subtle form of racism, one which Altidore has noticed in U.S. commentary over the years. 

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21 hours ago, Ivan said:

They beat Inter Miami's U23s 3-0.  Can't remember all the scorers, but Pozuelo and Mullins had two of them.  If it was a young gun Canadian, I would have remembered the 3rd. 😉

Sorry to quote my own prior post, but just to add to this.  Bradley scored the third goal in that first preseason game.

Also, Shaffelburg was quite prominent in the 1 minute highlight package.  He set up the Mullins goal with a great cross.

Apparently, the TFC match info and lineups have been sparse in preseason because they want Leon to have as little info as possible heading into their series.

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1 hour ago, Ivan said:

.......because they want Leon to have as little info as possible heading into their series.

That’s somewhat encouraging.  Because it suggests that they care about the CCL this time.  Last time,  i didnt get this impression.

Edited by Free kick
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18 hours ago, RS said:

I forgot about that Warshaw anecdote. Thinking back, it was definitely Altidore's voice (IMO).

As for the point about Black players' physiques, Altidore has always been described as "powerful", "athletic", etc. (which he is, of course, along with other good attributes), but he's noted that Black players are often described as such by (usually white) commentators even when other descriptors should/could also be used. It's coded language that he doesn't agree with and has advocated against, even though he himself is a specimen of a player.

Think about how African teams are often portrayed at the World Cup — commentators gush about their physicality and athleticism, but to make it to that level at least some (if not all) of the players have to have a high soccer IQ, be a good passer, well-organized and so on. Even though it's meant to be positive, commentators only focusing on Black players' physical attributes can be construed as a subtle form of racism, one which Altidore has noticed in U.S. commentary over the years. 

The way American sports media describe black players vs white players has been studied quite a bit especially in terms of the NFL such as black vs white quarterbacks. It was a big problem in US basketball but has improved in the past generation as more black analysts started being used on broadcasts.

So, not a surprise a black athlete is sensitive to how people see them and how they don't. 

 

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6 hours ago, MM3/MM2/MM said:

Looks like a risky move.

 

From what he wrote about the move, he really missed his old job covering TFC.  I applaud the guts to try this but I doubt this is going to work.  At $50/year, he needs 1K subscribers to make a livable income. 

 

I won't be subscribing but I'll keep an eye out if there's something that's a must read and I must pay for.  I came to like John as the years passed and he matured/mellowed.  Much more so than his early days when he was an insufferable eurosnob who could barely contain his disdain for Canadian soccer even though he was employed to cover it.  He just loved it when Canada slipped up.  He even called Arfield a "mangiacake" among the numerous times he would hurl that at people on twitter.     

  

Edited by CanadianSoccerFan
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13 hours ago, CanadianSoccerFan said:

 

From what he wrote about the move, he really missed his old job covering TFC.  I applaud the guts to try this but I doubt this is going to work.  At $50/year, he needs 1K subscribers to make a livable income. 

 

I won't be subscribing but I'll keep an eye out if there's something that's a must read and I must pay for.  I came to like John as the years passed and he matured/mellowed.  Much more so than his early days when he was an insufferable eurosnob who could barely contain his disdain for Canadian soccer even though he was employed to cover it.  He just loved it when Canada slipped up.  He even called Arfield a "mangiacake" among the numerous times he would hurl that at people on twitter.     

  

He is likely getting some kind of supplementary income from TFC to be their beat writer.

In fact he might be totally on the TFC payroll and TFC are doing this to help cover the costs of his writing.

Edited by Ruffian
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