TFC 2021 Season

[Bdog]

17 minutes ago, Mikmacdo said:

trade him, im sick of average american mls players blocking young canadians on tfc. let nelson, rutty and shaff eat him his minutes. 

I figure his dumbass comments might end up being a good thing if they end up getting rid of him over it. Not an awful player but the kids will probably contribute more anyways. 

[Dominic94]

If his comments get him traded I’m happy

[Ruffian]

No matter what people's opinions are on vaccines or lock-downs TFC need to move him no matter what. Not being vaccinated may cause issues when moving across the border a lot. They don't need that headache for a player that may not even be there much longer and is not a game changing talent.

[top cheese]

It’s time this team starts to use its young players. Dunn, Fraser, rutty, Nelson etc are all quality and have a bright future. Plus the opportunity is there to integrate them, the team will struggle to attract vets in this current covid situation 

[Big_M]

Toronto FC coach Chris Armas issues Michael Bradley an attacking challenge for 2021

loving that armas wants bradley in higher positions and bring more in the final third as he is really capable of that as we saw years ago..put someone behind him as the six and let bradley bring more offensively

[Bison44]

Hmmm, where is Osorio going to go??  

[dyslexic nam]

On 3/24/2021 at 5:25 PM, Dominic94 said:

Shots fired 

Just catching up on some of the TFC news.  If they go this direction I will definitely tune in again (after losing interest last year).  Watching a core group of our top domestic players battle it out in MLS would be awesome, win lose or draw.  And while I hope it is actually a shift in philosophy, to be honest it doesn’t matter that much if it is being driven by finances.  If it shows the success of a new model, maybe it is the kind of experiment that is needed. I just hope they don’t change course too quickly.  Watching a team that gives lots of minutes to Nelson, Okello, Perruzza, Dunn, Priso and even Marshall-Rutty would be a lot of fun. 

[rkomar]

4 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

Watching a team that gives lots of minutes to Nelson, Okello, Perruzza, Dunn, Priso and even Marshall-Rutty would be a lot of fun. 

As a TFC fan, for me nothing beats the fun of winning.  I'm not willing to watch the team perpetually lose while it trains young Canadians.  I get the feeling that lots of people here don't actually care if the team wins, so long as the Canadian rookies get their experience.  Well, that's not me.  When Leiweke took over, he changed management to make winning a priority, and TFC quickly became a winning team after that.  I loved that change, and I'd hate to see us go away from that.  So, go ahead and give the kids their chance, but if the team and results look as hopeless as they did in the early seasons, then it's time to replace them with players who can help the team win again.  Perpetual losing should not be an option.

[dyslexic nam]

53 minutes ago, rkomar said:

As a TFC fan, for me nothing beats the fun of winning.  I'm not willing to watch the team perpetually lose while it trains young Canadians.  I get the feeling that lots of people here don't actually care if the team wins, so long as the Canadian rookies get their experience.  Well, that's not me.  When Leiweke took over, he changed management to make winning a priority, and TFC quickly became a winning team after that.  I loved that change, and I'd hate to see us go away from that.  So, go ahead and give the kids their chance, but if the team and results look as hopeless as they did in the early seasons, then it's time to replace them with players who can help the team win again.  Perpetual losing should not be an option.

I am mostly in the other camp.  If things are absolutely abysmal, then I think you go in a different direction.  But if the team is competitive I would fully support a youth-first approach.  I would have a lot more interest watching a mid-table  MLS side littered with young Canadians than watching Team America go all the way.  
 

Not saying you are wrong - just a different perspective.  

[Bison44]

1 hour ago, rkomar said:

As a TFC fan, for me nothing beats the fun of winning.  I'm not willing to watch the team perpetually lose while it trains young Canadians.  I get the feeling that lots of people here don't actually care if the team wins, so long as the Canadian rookies get their experience.  Well, that's not me.  When Leiweke took over, he changed management to make winning a priority, and TFC quickly became a winning team after that.  I loved that change, and I'd hate to see us go away from that.  So, go ahead and give the kids their chance, but if the team and results look as hopeless as they did in the early seasons, then it's time to replace them with players who can help the team win again.  Perpetual losing should not be an option.

I dont get the either or, zero sum perspective.  Did we just get rid of Poz, Bradley, Jozy, Oso, mavinga etc to make room for Priso or Nelsen??  TFC didnt go from also ran to contender because they changed any direction on playing kids or CDNs.  They stopped bringing in guys like Frings, Mista, Earnshaw, Gilberto etc and getting quality still in their prime stars. 

What I think most of us object to is seeing Mullins, Endoh or Zaveletta types get trotted out over and over when you could go with a cheap CDN prospect and get arguably the same result but with an upside. They have spent the money bringing these kids along, there are a bunch of them, why not at least see who sinks and who floats eh?  Most teams can work in a few young academy players into their roster without going into a tailspin.   

[rkomar]

I just got fed up with the posts over the last few years arguing that TFC should be a training team for Canadian players, regardless of whether they made the team better or not.  I love the TFC wins, so was getting irritated at those who don't care if TFC loses as long as Canadians play.  As I mentioned above, I'm all for giving the youngsters a chance to play and grow, but I'm against playing them just because they are Canadian.

As for playing Mullins, Endoh,... that was down to Vanney.  Towards the end, he only wanted to play those who rarely gave away the ball in dangerous situations.  Vanney is gone now, so I think that philosophy will change.  At least I hope so.   I much preferred it early on when Vanney played those who showed well during training, developing a culture of internal competition and improvement.  I think it's no coincidence that that was also when TFC were the most successful they have ever been.

[Bison44]

30 minutes ago, rkomar said:

I just got fed up with the posts over the last few years arguing that TFC should be a training team for Canadian players, regardless of whether they made the team better or not.  I love the TFC wins, so was getting irritated at those who don't care if TFC loses as long as Canadians play.  As I mentioned above, I'm all for giving the youngsters a chance to play and grow, but I'm against playing them just because they are Canadian.

As for playing Mullins, Endoh,... that was down to Vanney.  Towards the end, he only wanted to play those who rarely gave away the ball in dangerous situations.  Vanney is gone now, so I think that philosophy will change.  At least I hope so.   I much preferred it early on when Vanney played those who showed well during training, developing a culture of internal competition and improvement.  I think it's no coincidence that that was also when TFC were the most successful they have ever been.

They were the most successful they ever were when they had Vasquez, Gio, Altidore (healthy) Bradley. You put the fastest horses out there, you'll win the races more often than not.  And not everyone is a TFC die hard.  If all I want to do is cheer for a winning team, I can cheer for Bayern or Barca.  You'll see the same guys wanting CDN kids to play on Impact and Vancouver..even fighting about who plays more etc.  

[Kadenge]

19 hours ago, Bison44 said:

Hmmm, where is Osorio going to go??  

Vancouver WCs

[Free kick]

22 hours ago, rkomar said:

As a TFC fan, for me nothing beats the fun of winning.  I'm not willing to watch the team perpetually lose while it trains young Canadians.  I get the feeling that lots of people here don't actually care if the team wins, so long as the Canadian rookies get their experience.  Well, that's not me.  When Leiweke took over, he changed management to make winning a priority, and TFC quickly became a winning team after that.  I loved that change, and I'd hate to see us go away from that.  So, go ahead and give the kids their chance, but if the team and results look as hopeless as they did in the early seasons, then it's time to replace them with players who can help the team win again.  Perpetual losing should not be an option.

Very well said.  This is what i have been saying many times here.   There are some 24-30k people that pay and show up to watch TFC.   They too are canadians (the vast majority at least) and what they come to see is good product and hopefully a winning team.  All the better if there are canadians to cheer for.     Before Leiweke arrived, you could tell that the team was at a crossroads.  The support was still there but clearly the relevance of the club was starting to slip.  And remember those tens of thousands on the waiting list for Season seats?  Well by the time Leiweke arrived we werent hearing anything about that waiting list any more.  Thats what losing will do. 
 

Odds are,  when you take this kind of turn whereby you roll out players with promise but no experience,  some will do well and other will not.  Some will be average and some will need more time to develop.   One might turn to be a true revelation or none will make it.  What is certain is that this process will mean that you will struggle in the standings.  And thats never good for any any professional sports team irrespective of the sport.  This is a profesional sports team!  They are no different than any professional sports team in the NHL, NBA, MLB, European soccer,  CPL...etc etc. Primary goal is to win which attracks fans, which allows you to make money so that get better and win still more.  Its not to develop or be a school for developing players of a certain nationality.   This is no different anywhere around the world in any realm aossciated with orgainized sports.  Thankfully,  there are MLS rules to encourage that part.
 

So I will be there none the less.  I will be cheering and hoping that some of these prospects pan out.   But unfortunately what you said in line 3-4 of your post is true about this forum sometimes.   And thats what I find frustrating, and I am furthermore frustrated that other canadian teams in MLS arent held at all to the same scrutiny by their own fans on this topic.  Still furthermore, what gets my blood boiling,  is when some of these canadian TFC players who have made it, dont get anywhere near the same “shout out” with respect to their places on the national teams.   Where was the outcry when Osorio was exiled by Floro from the national team?  

Edited April 1, 2021 by Free kick

[Free kick]

10 hours ago, Bison44 said:

I dont get the either or, zero sum perspective.  Did we just get rid of Poz, Bradley, Jozy, Oso, mavinga etc to make room for Priso or Nelsen??  TFC didnt go from also ran to contender because they changed any direction on playing kids or CDNs.  They stopped bringing in guys like Frings, Mista, Earnshaw, Gilberto etc and getting quality still in their prime stars. eu 

Hindsight is 20-20.  Were you certain at the time that they signed Frings, Mista,  Earnshaw....etc.  that they would be as unsuccessfull or less successful than the guys you mentioned in line 2?   Frings started for Germany at world cup final game.

Edited April 1, 2021 by Free kick

[Stryker911]

Noone is really advocating that TFC should just play young Canadians and not worry about winning. I think most people on this board, myself included, just dont like how they would play an American journeyman over a young Canadian. Not sure how even the most diehard fan can't see that.

Jordan Hamilton is the prime example. Is he a superstar, no. Has he had any success after leaving Toronto, no. However, he was an OK sub who got some goals while here. There is no way Ben Spencer, who had 2 professional goals to his name should get any playing time in his place. Or we can also add Patrick Mullins, who from 2018-20 has 53 appearances and 4 goals. Hamilton has 6 goals in 34 during the same time. That, and many similar instances through the years is what pissed off alot of people towards TFC. 

[gator]

Some of you have to realize this is a Canadian Soccer Supporters board we are all not TFC fans and our agenda or wishes may be different, most of us just want the Canadians to get a chance to develop and taking a back seat to American journeymen who contribute very little doesn't do that! TFC became successful when they spent big bucks on international stars and had the highest payroll in the league not because they sat down Canadians who were starting because even in the bad old days there weren't many! There was a certain faction of the support and probably still is who found it cool to slag the Canadians, most of the time unjustified, it was ridiculous some of the complaining I heard in the stands about Osorio but I suppose these fans who just started following the game when TFC came about knew best! I get it that everyone wants a winning team to support, I think there is potetial this season for many Canadians to contribute with the new coaching staff saying all the right things so far! 

[Kadenge]

Most successful teams are able to develop their top youth talent by giving them select minutes, at the right time while surrounded by the right veteran players. If a young player is highly rated and is ready for first team minutes, management has to accept that the player will make mistakes, but in doing so will learn and get better.  Davies made mistakes in his first 6 games (and still makes some) but Flick stayed with him. David was not converting his chances in the first half of the season but Galtier stuck with him. Same with Larin in Belgium.  American MLS teams are developing their young players as starters/ recent transfers to Europe. So why not TFC?  Starting /giving minutes to one of Okello/Priso/Nelsen/Peruzza/JMR per game is not going to downgrade TFC.  Is'nt it  telling when TFC's MVP Poz wants the "kids" to play?  The sky is not going to fall if one of those kids start or is subbed in when TFC has a 3-0 lead vs. Endo/Mullins/Zavaleta etc. For the record, I live in Toronto, attend some games, have watched most  from day one and was even at the Aston Villa/TFC game back in year 1. 

[SoccMan]

23 hours ago, Bison44 said:

They were the most successful they ever were when they had Vasquez, Gio, Altidore (healthy) Bradley. You put the fastest horses out there, you'll win the races more often than not.  And not everyone is a TFC die hard.  If all I want to do is cheer for a winning team, I can cheer for Bayern or Barca.  You'll see the same guys wanting CDN kids to play on Impact and Vancouver..even fighting about who plays more etc.  

But the vast majority of people that fill the stands in Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver are not the 20 or so of us soccer geeks that post on these boards , so if these teams constantly lose it will effect attendance and the bottom line . Sure play Canadian players instead of the journey men American MLS players I’m all for that , but in the end you still need to keep an eye on trying to win too. I mean even CPL teams have foreign players that they sign to help them win. Go watch that Montreal Toronto playoff series in 2016 or that MLS final in Toronto in 2017 and if someone told me back in even the 1990’s that those kind of atmospheres and those kind of games would happen here in Canada for a pro soccer game I would have thought you were nuts , but yet it happened and only happened because of winning teams . To only support your local soccer team as a only a developing ground for Canadian players and not care about winning where is the fun in that ? Sure give Canadian players more of a chance to play but in the end I still want my team to win and experience moments like I did in 2016 and 2017 being live at the stadium.

[Obinna]

 

[Gian-Luca]

I wonder if we will hear Jozy saying "Taylor Twellman's trash" in the background of some TFC locker room scrum this year.

[Gian-Luca]

Had no idea this feud was happening the past few days:

https://www.wakingthered.com/2021/4/1/22362175/taylor-twellman-responds-to-jozy-altidore-comments-altidore-fires-back

[An Observer]

14 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

Had no idea this feud was happening the past few days:

https://www.wakingthered.com/2021/4/1/22362175/taylor-twellman-responds-to-jozy-altidore-comments-altidore-fires-back

Jozy seems like a right twat.  He makes it sound like the only qualification to be a commentator is whether you succeeded on the field.  Or are not white.  Neither are correct and the later is downright racist. 

That being said, I have always thought Twellman was a terrible commentator.  Maybe stick to calling him out on that. 

[Gian-Luca]

TFC won their first (only?) pre-season match 4-2 over Columbus, with Perruzza getting the 4th and Auro converting from the PK spot (nice to see someone else besides Pozuelo converting).

https://www.tsn.ca/toronto-fc-defeats-columbus-crew-sc-in-mls-pre-season-game-1.1617016

Edited April 2, 2021 by Gian-Luca

[Unnamed Trialist]

6 hours ago, Gian-Luca said:

Had no idea this feud was happening the past few days:

https://www.wakingthered.com/2021/4/1/22362175/taylor-twellman-responds-to-jozy-altidore-comments-altidore-fires-back

Was Altidore's original a response to the OneSoccer tweet? Pleased if it was, it's also a stance. 

I personally like Twellman precisely because he's the best when the US fail, the most gratifying rub it in pundit.