Vancouver Whitecaps 2021 Season

[youllneverwalkalone]

Most great managers in the modern game were nobodies once. Look at the EPL at present: Thomas Frank, Thomas Tuchel, Benitez, Brendan Rogers, Daniel Farke, and Bruno Lage were all nobodies. You used to have to have been a former player people had heard of to manage there.

[BearcatSA]

12 hours ago, Watchmen said:

Do you mean Schuster or the rest of the FO/ownership group?  Because most people have complained that MDS should have been out ages ago and it was only because FO/ownership were too cheap that he was still around.

I think what is most telling for me is that I never heard any rumours via the cybersphere grapevine about contract renewal/extensions for MDS at this point of the season.  He changed his agent last week, too, so the writing was clearly on the wall.  Finally, he wasn't a Schuster hire:  in the firewall of self-preservation, the coach is the guy to go and the German now gets to buy time to find "his" choice.

"Most people" (fans?) care about winning.  If the team went on a true winning streak at home, the same people complaining would be the same ones cheering him on along with the team:  the fickleness of fandom.

I am reminded back to the time that Nelsen got the sack and Vanney took over.  Milhouse Bez and the leadership looked at the situation at TFC that year and decided that things were flatlining or trending downward, so the move happened (old timers like @Gian-Luca can refresh my memory on that "bloody big deal" season of 2014  )

[BearcatSA]

34 minutes ago, youllneverwalkalone said:

Most great managers in the modern game were nobodies once. Look at the EPL at present: Thomas Frank, Thomas Tuchel, Benitez, Brendan Rogers, Daniel Farke, and Bruno Lage were all nobodies. You used to have to have been a former player people had heard of to manage there.

Everybody starts out somewhere.  Arsene Wenger began at Nancy and then Monaco but his career trajectory took him next to Japan just before running the Gunners.

Arrigo Sacchi, anyone?

 

[youllneverwalkalone]

Wenger is the start of the modern manager though. Never played at a high level, economics degree, stats geek. Tony Adams wouldn't give him the time of day at the start. 

We are seeing more of this profile now, as it becomes less important to have played at the level you coach. I think 5 of 8 CPL coaches never played pro?

[Soro17]

5 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

Everybody starts out somewhere.  Arsene Wenger began at Nancy and then Monaco but his career trajectory took him next to Japan just before running the Gunners.

Arrigo Sacchi, anyone?

 

I don't think there is an appetite in Vancouver for another new 'nobody'. With the exception of Teitur, the Caps have hired exclusively from the former assistant / lower level ranks (Rennie, Robbo, Dos Santos). They might be able to sell Kah here based on his recent role with the club, anyone else similar, will be treated with skepticism. 

[BearcatSA]

1 hour ago, Soro17 said:

I don't think there is an appetite in Vancouver for another new 'nobody'. With the exception of Teitur, the Caps have hired exclusively from the former assistant / lower level ranks (Rennie, Robbo, Dos Santos). They might be able to sell Kah here based on his recent role with the club, anyone else similar, will be treated with skepticism. 

It won't be an American MLS retread coach.

[Bison44]

8 minutes ago, BearcatSA said:

It won't be an American MLS retread coach.

They arent TFC.  I hope.

[Gian-Luca]

10 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

I think what is most telling for me is that I never heard any rumours via the cybersphere grapevine about contract renewal/extensions for MDS at this point of the season.  He changed his agent last week, too, so the writing was clearly on the wall.  Finally, he wasn't a Schuster hire:  in the firewall of self-preservation, the coach is the guy to go and the German now gets to buy time to find "his" choice.

"Most people" (fans?) care about winning.  If the team went on a true winning streak at home, the same people complaining would be the same ones cheering him on along with the team:  the fickleness of fandom.

I am reminded back to the time that Nelsen got the sack and Vanney took over.  Milhouse Bez and the leadership looked at the situation at TFC that year and decided that things were flatlining or trending downward, so the move happened (old timers like @Gian-Luca can refresh my memory on that "bloody big deal" season of 2014  )

That's more or less my recollection, although I seem to recall Nelsen was not a Bezbachenko hire but Kevin Payne one, so him lasting only half a season was not perhaps too surprising for that reason. I think Nelson also fired a few barbs at Bezbachenko in the media, after the latter I think made some "we can play better than this shit"-type comments. Bez I think brought Vanney with him when he came to TFC (or shortly thereafter) so he was already waiting in the wings.

[Bison44]

Yep, thats all the way I remember it.  Vanney was made assistant GM and head of Academy not long after BEZ showed up and Nelsen was indeed a holdover from Payne.  BEZ said some stuff, Nelsen wanted in kept in house and Defoe was also making rumblings at the same time, wanting out of TFC.  

[Unnamed Trialist]

17 hours ago, youllneverwalkalone said:

Wenger is the start of the modern manager though. Never played at a high level, economics degree, stats geek. Tony Adams wouldn't give him the time of day at the start. 

We are seeing more of this profile now, as it becomes less important to have played at the level you coach. I think 5 of 8 CPL coaches never played pro?

Just curious, CC, when does modern football begin? I really don't have the chronology clear. One way to draw the line is with the Bosman ruling, seeing clubs and countries lose their specific identities. In coaching? 

The great managers of clubs in the years pre turn of the century were Sacchi and Cruyff, as both left legacies. Agreed on Wenger. True about the new trend being Rafa Benitez types, another is Unai Emery. 

These guys who were not notable players need time to gain respect. 

[youllneverwalkalone]

Modern football began when I started paying attention which was some time around the founding of the premier league and Wenger's hire.

[BearcatSA]

The guy in Montreal is getting his side to punch above its weight.  Poach him 😉

[youllneverwalkalone]

32 minutes ago, BearcatSA said:

The guy in Montreal is getting his side to punch above its weight.  Poach him 😉

I like his casual style. I feel like we're all dressing down a bit during the pandemic, but no need to go full track suit unless you are British

[BearcatSA]

43 minutes ago, youllneverwalkalone said:

I like his casual style. I feel like we're all dressing down a bit during the pandemic, but no need to go full track suit unless you are British

Most of the coaches in this league look like their wardrobe is supplied by Mark's.  

[SpursFlu]

Don't shoot or laugh at the messenger but during the La Liga broadcaster they floated Carlo Ancelotti to the Whitecaps. Kasey Keller had a funny response but I couldn't tell if it was because he thought it was a joke or was genuinely shocked that it was something that was legitimately being considered 

Edited August 29, 2021 by SpursFlu

[Unnamed Trialist]

4 hours ago, youllneverwalkalone said:

Modern football began when I started paying attention which was some time around the founding of the premier league and Wenger's hire.

EPL coincides with me moving to Spain, so I'd say the same as you. Early mid 90s. Back then you could only play limited foreigners, national teams still had a national style. Then it shifted. 

I miss Johan Cruyff. He was brilliant, natural and so original, and I miss him in a way I don't miss anyone in football. He's the real bridge between old football and new. 

[youllneverwalkalone]

1 hour ago, SpursFlu said:

Don't shoot or laugh at the messenger but during the La Liga broadcaster they floated Carlo Ancelotti to the Whitecaps. Kasey Keller had a funny response but I couldn't tell if it was because he thought it was a joke or was genuinely shocked that it was something that was legitimately being considered 

I could see him as a part owner, uber-director type. Doesn't matter who you are, if the wife wants something she usually gets it in the end (wife being from Vancouver).

[SpursFlu]

He owns a crazy mansion right on the ocean in West Van. 1 key thing to consider. He is super old

[youllneverwalkalone]

Somehow 62 doesn't seem as old as it used to.

[Unnamed Trialist]

3 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

He owns a crazy mansion right on the ocean in West Van. 1 key thing to consider. He is super old

I thought it was her house, or the family house.  She has an independent income, went to SFU and then studied business; and her parents were already in W Van.

I think she grew up in Caulfield, and the parents were Spanish and immigrated, father was a nautical engineer or an expert in ports, or some similar professional, going on memory here. But explains why he was in Van. Now separated, her mom is still in W Van last I heard, father returned to Spain. 

I asked a friend who may have grown up in the same area but he's quite a bit older than her and had never heard of the family. 

 

Edited August 30, 2021 by Unnamed Trialist

[youllneverwalkalone]

Listened to my first post game on the radio since Fine Lines Robinson. Vanni seems like a nice guy. Maybe Carlo will give him the gig full time when he gets here.

[Unnamed Trialist]

Whitecaps are one win off an even record, who would have believed it?

I thought they had very good intensity last night, and to be frank, a lot of the playing style and possession has to be to MDS' credit. 

A team with no real stars and, it seems, no real egos either, fairly good cohesion. 

[SpursFlu]

I didn't mean he is 62 years old he can't coach, it was more like you're 62, has nothing left to prove so why not just pick a job that works for you and wind it down

By the way, did anyone find it interesting that the almost exact lineup that lost to Pacific, thrashed a mid table MLS team

[The Beaver 2.0]

8 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

I didn't mean he is 62 years old he can't coach, it was more like you're 62, has nothing left to prove so why not just pick a job that works for you and wind it down

By the way, did anyone find it interesting that the almost exact lineup that lost to Pacific, thrashed a mid table MLS team

Boys were playing for their jobs, methinks. There was an immediacy and intensity I'd not really seen for a while. The fact that MDS got canned might have got some of the fellas thinking they could be next on the chopping block.  Maybe?  Or maybe they felt horribly guilty for the crap performance that ended MDS's career. From what I understand, he was well-liked among the players.  Or, maybe Sartini is the "defensive genius" that others have claimed, at least according to what Dolan reported during the broadcast.  Seems unlikely that he was able to have any impact in such short time, but one place where a team can improve relatively quickly is on defense.  The lads played for each other last night. Reminded me a bit of our Nats during the Gold Cup, except the Nats played much better football and against better competition.

[Watchmen]

17 hours ago, The Beaver 2.0 said:

Boys were playing for their jobs, methinks. There was an immediacy and intensity I'd not really seen for a while. The fact that MDS got canned might have got some of the fellas thinking they could be next on the chopping block.  Maybe?  Or maybe they felt horribly guilty for the crap performance that ended MDS's career. From what I understand, he was well-liked among the players.  Or, maybe Sartini is the "defensive genius" that others have claimed, at least according to what Dolan reported during the broadcast.  Seems unlikely that he was able to have any impact in such short time, but one place where a team can improve relatively quickly is on defense.  The lads played for each other last night. Reminded me a bit of our Nats during the Gold Cup, except the Nats played much better football and against better competition.

I think it was a combination of a bunch of things (new manager, embarrassment from Thursday, quality of opposition) that lead to Sunday night. But having said that, even before he'd been fired I'd heard some criticism of MDS's defensive style (from knowledgeable sources, not message boards/twitter), that his zonal marking tactics in some instances were both outdated and not working. So, just moving away from that is probably going to be an improvement.