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This is the last situation people should be using to show that Canadian soccer is not yet where it needs to be. If he were cut because the coaches thought he wasn’t good enough, and there were not oth

https://www.whitecapsfc.com/youth/eliteteams/residency/juvraj-kooner Surrey United/ Caps/Lank FC product, turns 19 next week. Has been involved in a few national team youth camps under both Jazic

One certainly can't disagree on the critique of the Whitecaps inconsistency and poor record in this regard, absolutely.  But to lump hazing, which is the harassment of other individuals, into a "behav

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1 hour ago, Watchmen said:

I have heard (and to be clear, this is 2nd hand) that the extent was "very bad" and it was "very definitely not consensual".

Second hand, so the person it happened to told you, personally, and you are telling us, making it third hand. Appreciate that.

What did you hear about the sexual harrassment at the club that you were so sure about you immediately reported to the RCMP?

I've looked into this a bit more, but just hearsay, like you. Even if it did take place, which sources say it did not (and some say it went to court or an official hearing and was dismissed, exonerating him) if he was 15 I am not sure it has to be a definitive and defining moment in his life.

 

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24 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Second hand, so the person it happened to told you, personally, and you are telling us, making it third hand. Appreciate that.

What did you hear about the sexual harrassment at the club that you were so sure about you immediately reported to the RCMP?

I can keep going on this as I also have hearsay information after looking into this that is worth as much as yours, which would point to the club doing a hack job investigating, that he was unjustifiably expelled, and that the accusations were unfounded.

 

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2 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Second hand, so the person it happened to told you, personally, and you are telling us, making it third hand. Appreciate that.

What did you hear about the sexual harrassment at the club that you were so sure about you immediately reported to the RCMP?

I've looked into this a bit more, but just hearsay, like you. Even if it did take place, which sources say it did not (and some say it went to court or an official hearing and was dismissed, exonerating him) if he was 15 I am not sure it has to be a definitive and defining moment in his life.

 

Fine, it would have been more like 3rd or 4th to me. It was a few steps back from the person it happened to.  I was just trying to make it clear that I don't have direct knowledge of it (and honestly still left me with some questions) but that it was still close enough that I'd put it above hearsay.  As everyone involved was a minor, I don't think we'll ever know what the court situation was.  And that even at 15, it sure sounds like it's the definining moment for the victim's life.

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6 hours ago, Bison44 said:

I think UT is talking about the 3rd quarter population decline in BC....a strange temporary pandemic driven occurance that hasnt happened since the 50's.  

If I wasn't such a weather wimp I'd be gone. Born and raised in the lower mainland will do that to a guy. Any recommendations? Has Alberta annexed the Okanagan yet? Thats always an option 

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Happy New Year, just getting to the dishes!

I am sorry to put this summary of the case on his thread, as I am thrilled by the move to Braga. I also apologize to @Watchmenas I was overstating my case and think he was making a good one as well.

So let's try to be fair. I want to say first that I really do not mean to downplay this, only put it into a balanced perspective. If I am mistaken it involves this player, I apologize, as we do not have names, all being minors. I am taking what I summarise here from press reports, and from online comments by people supposedly knowing one or another party. Including recent comments.

It would seem he was one of two people involved in an incident in the first week of June 2017,  at the Burnaby training centre, where they also went to high school. They were u-15s at the time it seems, he's a 2002 and had joined that programme in August 2015.

The mother of the player allegedly victimised, who had moved with her son to BC from another province, reported it to the press after the Caps did not take immediate action. Still, it was in police hands within 48 hours. This fact was seen to exonerate the Caps' procedures in handling the incident, as seen in the 2019 report on the sexual harrassment case involving girls in the academy over a decade previously, which dealt with this case somewhat tangentially.

The claim was that one player was bullied for a certain period and subject to some form of sexual assault in a single incident after a practice. One report says the two boys involved pushed another kid to the ground and jumped on him, although no one clarified how this was "sexual". Other players were present and apparently intervened. Others reports have it that the bullying took place over a longer period, and that the culprits were amongst the better academy players who picked on the other kid as part of a status rivalry. There are also arguments that suggest the accuser could have behaved in a way that was more than just that of a victim, not during the assault itself but previously.

We know that in Canada sexual assault is a broad definition that could go from slapping a butt or exposure of genitals to outright rape. Usually it is typified by Levels. Everything else commented is speculation and there are no clear reports on what literally happened. Perhaps there was sexual simulation when the kid was on the ground? We don't know. What we do know is that the complaint was not about something that was mere harrassment, which means it was not just verbal. 

The mother who went to press wondered why the Caps did not go to the RCMP right away, as they only went to private security and some inside contact with local police. But as we have seen, this was a 2-day window. It could be said, however, that the case went to the Burnaby RCMP because the parent pushed it; it could also be argued that the Caps were in the midst of applying procedure and would have gotten to it in due time.

Within a few weeks, in late June 2017, one charge of sexual assault was laid against each accused.

Both players were released by the residency for violation of code of conduct. We don't know if this was temporary then permanent, or how it worked. They were also suspended from Burnaby Central Secondary School, although I am not sure if that was temporary or permanent either.

This case went to court in late August of 2017, and both accused players pleaded not guilty.

It seems they were acquitted, but I can't find a definitive sentence. It seems Kooner connected with the LASK organisation shortly afterwards.

Edit: online those defending Juvy say that the accusation was false or invalid, as the judge ruled, and the Caps handled it badly in detriment of the two suspended players. Some say the player complaining had been involved in verbal bullying or abuse of his own. Others raise a racial question, as Juvy is, I believe, of a Punjabi background (although I am not 100% sure) and that u.15 group was majority white. None of these speculations or comments have be corroborated.

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27 minutes ago, Dominic94 said:

I wonder what his expected ETA for the first team is.

My extensive research (I spent a few minutes reading Braga's Wikipedia page) indicates that their current 4 CBs are 35, 31, 25, and 21. They have a couple other CBs out on loan, but their ages and career appearance numbers don't indicate that they'll trouble the Braga XI much in the future. So, what this means is that young Mr Kooner needs to do the business in the youth/reserve teams to put himself in the frame to replace one of the 2 ageing first-teamers in the next couple of years.

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43 minutes ago, SthMelbRed said:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/650/reach-deep/juvy-kooner-signing-s-c-braga/

  • models his game on Thiago Silva, as a ball-playing CB
  • thinks that Surrey is a hotbed of talent that will produce a lot more players

Only a quick 3 1/2 minute hit, so couldn't really get into a lot else.

Surrey is always a hotbed of talent 

Happy New Year  ;)

Here's to a prosperous 2021

Peace & Love

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4 hours ago, SthMelbRed said:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/650/reach-deep/juvy-kooner-signing-s-c-braga/

  • models his game on Thiago Silva, as a ball-playing CB
  • thinks that Surrey is a hotbed of talent that will produce a lot more players

Only a quick 3 1/2 minute hit, so couldn't really get into a lot else.

Hopefully that talent is developed.

with WFC raiding the whole west, and not playing their kids minus Davies...: 

 

pacific and Bayern/Bundes Surrey/Fraser valley is it the same ? I’m not a bc guy. Will have to draw the talent and develop to force the caps to play the kids.

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He turns 19 tomorrow, Jan 2.

He plays as a midfielder and seems to have scoring ability. In a match in a tournament Caps residency played in the Netherlands at Easter 2017, where they also faced Chelsea, he scored on a near-post header vs. rival Excelsior Rotterdam. So a mid going forward as a youth? And has he been moved into the CB slot more recently?

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1 hour ago, nolando said:

https://www.surreynowleader.com/sports/surreys-juvy-kooner-signs-to-play-pro-soccer-in-portugal/

Pretty decent article with more of the details of his signing and what the next few months might look like.

He's quoted as saying that the season hasn't started, yet, due to Covid. As we know that Liga NOS has been playing since summer, he must be referring to the youth leagues, where he'll be expected to make his bones.

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I have 0 knowledge of this case aside from what I have read here. The spectrum of possible consequences of the actions and the Whitecaps banishment are so wide ranging. At worst on one side is that the Whitecaps lost a prospect for banning him over next to nothing. At best on the other side they could have eradicated a toxic culture of hazing that would have forever harmed several more boys and potentially players like Juvy Kooner go further down the rabbit hole if it goes unpunished. More victims and the perpetrators themselves don’t reach their potential. Maybe the only reason we are hearing about Kooner now making a good step in the right direction in his soccer career is because of the reality check he got from the Whitecaps. Who knows? 

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9 hours ago, Kent said:

I have 0 knowledge of this case aside from what I have read here. The spectrum of possible consequences of the actions and the Whitecaps banishment are so wide ranging. At worst on one side is that the Whitecaps lost a prospect for banning him over next to nothing. At best on the other side they could have eradicated a toxic culture of hazing that would have forever harmed several more boys and potentially players like Juvy Kooner go further down the rabbit hole if it goes unpunished. More victims and the perpetrators themselves don’t reach their potential. Maybe the only reason we are hearing about Kooner now making a good step in the right direction in his soccer career is because of the reality check he got from the Whitecaps. Who knows? 

It would seem that since the organisation had its back against the wall for inaction with the younger women years earlier, they reacted in this case on the side of caution. 

Sheanon Williams was also separated from the 1st team at almost the same time for a domestic violence incident. I think there was another the following year with Blondell. But perhaps in those cases they were applying MLS protocols.

It is true that a disciplinary case like this will permeate the organisation and serve as a lesson to all. It also helps the institution understand how to apply protocols with youth. Mind you, if a judge exonerated him from all charges, he might have an argument to say he personally was not treated right regardless of the bigger picture.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I was noticing looking at some game reports that Braga is dressing few players. I am not sure what the Portugal rules are, and of course it would be early for a young CB or DM, but I've looked in any case. I get the sense Braga is short on players for the first team, which is why it occured to me. 

Reasonably, we could not expect him to get first team minutes until next season, if he shows well in their B team.

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On 12/31/2020 at 9:45 PM, Unnamed Trialist said:

Others raise a racial question, as Juvy is, I believe, of a Punjabi background (although I am not 100% sure) and that u.15 group was majority white. None of these speculations or comments have be corroborated.

He is 100%. I can say that with certainty based on his last name, and his legal first name I suppose as well. Also, him being from Surrey was a dead give away. 

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On 12/31/2020 at 6:45 PM, Unnamed Trialist said:

Happy New Year, just getting to the dishes!

I am sorry to put this summary of the case on his thread, as I am thrilled by the move to Braga. I also apologize to @Watchmenas I was overstating my case and think he was making a good one as well.

So let's try to be fair. I want to say first that I really do not mean to downplay this, only put it into a balanced perspective. If I am mistaken it involves this player, I apologize, as we do not have names, all being minors. I am taking what I summarise here from press reports, and from online comments by people supposedly knowing one or another party. Including recent comments.

It would seem he was one of two people involved in an incident in the first week of June 2017,  at the Burnaby training centre, where they also went to high school. They were u-15s at the time it seems, he's a 2002 and had joined that programme in August 2015.

The mother of the player allegedly victimised, who had moved with her son to BC from another province, reported it to the press after the Caps did not take immediate action. Still, it was in police hands within 48 hours. This fact was seen to exonerate the Caps' procedures in handling the incident, as seen in the 2019 report on the sexual harrassment case involving girls in the academy over a decade previously, which dealt with this case somewhat tangentially.

The claim was that one player was bullied for a certain period and subject to some form of sexual assault in a single incident after a practice. One report says the two boys involved pushed another kid to the ground and jumped on him, although no one clarified how this was "sexual". Other players were present and apparently intervened. Others reports have it that the bullying took place over a longer period, and that the culprits were amongst the better academy players who picked on the other kid as part of a status rivalry. There are also arguments that suggest the accuser could have behaved in a way that was more than just that of a victim, not during the assault itself but previously.

We know that in Canada sexual assault is a broad definition that could go from slapping a butt or exposure of genitals to outright rape. Usually it is typified by Levels. Everything else commented is speculation and there are no clear reports on what literally happened. Perhaps there was sexual simulation when the kid was on the ground? We don't know. What we do know is that the complaint was not about something that was mere harrassment, which means it was not just verbal. 

The mother who went to press wondered why the Caps did not go to the RCMP right away, as they only went to private security and some inside contact with local police. But as we have seen, this was a 2-day window. It could be said, however, that the case went to the Burnaby RCMP because the parent pushed it; it could also be argued that the Caps were in the midst of applying procedure and would have gotten to it in due time.

Within a few weeks, in late June 2017, one charge of sexual assault was laid against each accused.

Both players were released by the residency for violation of code of conduct. We don't know if this was temporary then permanent, or how it worked. They were also suspended from Burnaby Central Secondary School, although I am not sure if that was temporary or permanent either.

This case went to court in late August of 2017, and both accused players pleaded not guilty.

It seems they were acquitted, but I can't find a definitive sentence. It seems Kooner connected with the LASK organisation shortly afterwards.

Edit: online those defending Juvy say that the accusation was false or invalid, as the judge ruled, and the Caps handled it badly in detriment of the two suspended players. Some say the player complaining had been involved in verbal bullying or abuse of his own. Others raise a racial question, as Juvy is, I believe, of a Punjabi background (although I am not 100% sure) and that u.15 group was majority white. None of these speculations or comments have be corroborated.

He was indeed proven innocent in court. He was wrongfully accused. The racial question has been raised, due to Juvy Kooner and the other player mentioned being the only 2 Punjabi people on the team at the time. Regardless of everything being said, the fact is that he was not guilty and was wrongfully accused. 

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On 12/31/2020 at 11:45 AM, Watchmen said:

I have heard (and granted it was 2nd hand) that the player on the receiving end of the hazing walked away from soccer and wants nothing more to do with it, and that his family relocated because of the incident.

I know of the family, and they have not relocated. The player is still playing soccer. 

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