Camp Poutine 2021 @ IMG in Florida Jan 9 -24

[Shway]

2 hours ago, El Hombre said:

1) And who is that?  I'm genuinely curious as to whose tires I'm pumping.

2) I have no false narratives or accusations.  The kid has not performed on the field.  And yet people still think he's some wunderkind.  If one coach holds him out of the lineup, then maybe you have something.  If four do....

Liam Millar - just as of August you had him as shoe-in/rotational in the front three, but he didn't play a professional game all 2020. While many guys emerged. To your second point, yes you can say he's been overhyped, and the fact that he hasn't appeared much under four coaches could be said....but the attitude narrative is a figment of peoples imagination. 

16 minutes ago, El Hombre said:

Based on their current trajectories, I am definitely more optimistic about Liam than I am of Ballou.  Didn't I read somewhere that Liam renewed his contract with Liverpool?

Another biased opinion (I know why) because ones playing/fighting for minutes in MLS, and the other just resumed his professional playing in League One. Are those leagues all of a sudden on par?

I don't are about contracts or where they are signed, it means nothing specifically at big clubs. Marco Van Ginkel has been under contract at Chelsea since 2013 and has only played 2 games. I refused to get hyped about prestigious clubs signing young players. As the stats are there that show it means nothing. 

Edited January 11, 2021 by Shway

[Stryker911]

23 minutes ago, Shway said:

 

I don't are about contracts or where they are signed, it means nothing specifically at big clubs. Marco Van Ginkel has been under contract at Chelsea since 2013 and has only played 2 games. I refused to get hyped about prestigious clubs signing young players. As the stats are there that show it means nothing. 

I love when people use examples of "failed to meet expectations" players that would be a top 5 player for us. 

[Shway]

1 minute ago, Stryker911 said:

I love when people use examples of "failed to meet expectations" players that would be a top 5 player for us. 

okay, I shouldve said Michael Hector....better? (even still MVG wouldn't be in the top)

[spitfire]

11 minutes ago, VinceA said:

Millar makes sense. He was underwhelming in Scotland, couldn't break into the Liverpool squad at any level (which is okay) but the fact he has decided to stay with the club and "amid Bundesliga and other top level interest" has gone on loan to a League One club I'm starting to not see the hype that was there. Wish him the best but at the moment he's not in my CanMNT plans. I'd take Buchanon over him right now.

I should know better than reply. 
Tajon is a very good player he has 3 goals in 33 games  with NE REV in the MLS one season  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tajon_Buchanan 

I see no hype on Liam btw. I see a player that has worked very hard moved up the ranks he has his own pathway...

He moved to the UK at 13 rose though the ranks at Fulham scoring 65 goals to be the top scorer in the UK at u16 winning two national championships. While at Fulham he played for the u16 Canadian national team at 14 in the Montague tournament under Sean Fleming. Moves to Liverpool fc U16s after turning down 5 epl clubs. He then played for Canada again at U20 ( Concacaf qualifying with Rob Gale) continuing to play for LFC u18s scoring a Hat trick  on his debut  he scored 15 goals and 18 assists that year  

He then makes his debut for the senior men’s team at 18 in a man of the match performance vs New Zealand. 
https://www.canadasoccer.com/profile/?id=6079&teamId=2078

He played in the UEFA youth league where he scored 5 goals and 4 assists in 10 games 

At 18 he then goes on loan to the SPFL to Kilmarnock where he struggles in a very poor side (with lots of turmoil behind the scenes) to get consistent numbers but does well enough to be near to top the league in dribbles and take on and running with the ball amassing 3 goals and 4 assists in 33 games for Kilmarnock (the third goal was in the Scottish league cup I was there)

He is recalled to Liverpool FC and makes his Liverpool FC senior debut in the FA Cup vs Shrewsbury. He finishes that season before lockdown with 5 goals and 4 assists in 10 games for the u23s. He has interest from several clubs domestic and abroad but decides to stay at LFC to Captain of the. Liverpool FC reserves. He had 5 goals and 4 assists this season in 14games. 

He decided to take a loan to league in after signing another 2 and a half year pro contract with Liverpool FC. His third pro contract with Liverpool FC 
 

Everyone is on their own pathway but let’s throw it all away because a player has a good season in the MLS... 

 

I should know better then to respond but I’m sick to death of it all to be really honest. The same shit happens with JD and Cyle  the amount of shit thrown at them too is staggering... Let the players grow and develop and be happy we have options and spend a little less time bashing....

[Stryker911]

6 minutes ago, Shway said:

okay, I shouldve said Michael Hector....better? (even still MVG wouldn't be in the top)

Not really. A CB who played 4 seasons in the Championship a d a season in the Bundesliga. Ill take that too. Try again.

Also at what point wouldn't MVG be a top player for us? When he played for a top Seirie A team, or a Premier league team, or scored a goal every other game in the Erdivisie?

In regards to Liam, I don't know if he will make Liverpool, but I do find it relevant that they keep extending his contract.

[El Hombre]

37 minutes ago, Shway said:

Liam Millar - just as of August you had him as shoe-in/rotational in the front three, but he didn't play a professional game all 2020. While many guys emerged. To your second point, yes you can say he's been overhyped, and the fact that he hasn't appeared much under four coaches could be said....but the attitude narrative is a figment of peoples imagination. 

Another biased opinion (I know why) because ones playing/fighting for minutes in MLS, and the other just resumed his professional playing in League One. Are those leagues all of a sudden on par?

I don't are about contracts or where they are signed, it means nothing specifically at big clubs. Marco Van Ginkel has been under contract at Chelsea since 2013 and has only played 2 games. I refused to get hyped about prestigious clubs signing young players. As the stats are there that show it means nothing. 

 

Yes, I had Liam Millar as a definite candidate for the front three in August.  This was before the Turkish league started and Cyle went on a tear and Cavallini wasn't looking too exceptional.  I don't think its a far cry to have someone like Liam in that position at that time.  I also spent most of 2010 saying that Rob Friend was the best striker Canada has.  That doesn't mean that I think he should be called up for WCQs in March.  Although, I bet he could still do a job with JD beside him...

In 2019 Ballou went to Albacete and played 2 games.  Then went to the Impact for 4 and then played 5 in 2020.  That same year Millar went to Kilmarnock and played 33 games and one FA Cup game with Liverpool.  Based on current trajectories, one is on an upward trend.

Again, you're the one that brought up Millar.  I'm not pumping his tires.  All I am saying is that Ballou needs to show something on the field to get him to the next level.  Whether that is some defensive awareness or something else, I don't know.  But his reputation far outweighs his current form from what I can see lately.

 

[Shway]

1 minute ago, El Hombre said:

 

Yes, I had Liam Millar as a definite candidate for the front three in August.  This was before the Turkish league started and Cyle went on a tear and Cavallini wasn't looking too exceptional.  I don't think its a far cry to have someone like Liam in that position at that time.  I also spent most of 2010 saying that Rob Friend was the best striker Canada has.  That doesn't mean that I think he should be called up for WCQs in March.  Although, I bet he could still do a job with JD beside him...

In 2019 Ballou went to Albacete and played 2 games.  Then went to the Impact for 4 and then played 5 in 2020.  That same year Millar went to Kilmarnock and played 33 games and one FA Cup game with Liverpool.  Based on current trajectories, one is on an upward trend.

Again, you're the one that brought up Millar.  I'm not pumping his tires.  All I am saying is that Ballou needs to show something on the field to get him to the next level.  Whether that is some defensive awareness or something else, I don't know.  But his reputation far outweighs his current form from what I can see lately.

 

And then in 2020? One got in games playing very few minutes, and the other didn't play at all. 

Everbody has a story, some don't get the opportunity and that's part of theirs. For the ones that are forging their stories I support each and every player strongly who represents Canada. The buck stops there.

Butttttt since this is the Canadian national team supporters forum, where player discussion is a focus, and current form is a reference. Every player should be treated with the same energy, same microscope regardless of their parent coming on here. In Liams case, he's gotten a lot of "slack" whereas Ballou isn't or Cyle didn't in the past. Oh and definitely Marcus Godinho didn't get (which was right, but would things have been said if they knew his dad visits here? probably not)....and it's from the same guys who have contrasting opinions for near similar situations just in the hopes to have a beer with pops.

Form Is temporary class is permanent...well in our case we only have two maybe three guys who fall into the "class" category. Consistency is all I ask. That's the reason I brought him up.

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, N1ckbr0wn said:

Based on what I’ve been told, it seemingly has been cleared up and potentially was some false positives. Not 100% sure on that information, more to come. The good news is (depending on how you look at it), is that they’re seemingly going ahead with camp.

Thanks for keeping us updated with all of that. Did they have the cycles set too high with those tests or something?

Either way, I hope they can clear up the false positives in the future. All is fine now, but what if false positives delay some of our players in March? There will only be a few days to prepare and we can't afford to have guys come in last minute.

I guess all teams have to endure the same thing, which levels the playing field, at least.

[SpursFlu]

Great news

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

10 minutes ago, El Hombre said:

I also spent most of 2010 saying that Rob Friend was the best striker Canada has.  That doesn't mean that I think he should be called up for WCQs in March.  Although, I bet he could still do a job with JD beside him...

Like I said with Cavallini suspended for the first match of March, put Larin in as the central striker for that match, but let's call up Rob Friend so he can play as the central striker for the match against the Cayman Islands!

[El Hombre]

2 minutes ago, Shway said:

And then in 2020? One got in games playing very few minutes, and the other didn't play at all.

Oh crap you're right.

 

3 minutes ago, Shway said:

And then in 2020? One got in games playing very few minutes, and the other didn't play at all. 

Everbody has a story, some don't get the opportunity and that's part of theirs. For the ones that are forging their stories I support each and every player strongly who represents Canada. The buck stops there.

Butttttt since this is the Canadian national team supporters forum, where player discussion is a focus, and current form is a reference. Every player should be treated with the same energy, same microscope regardless of their parent coming on here. In Liams case, he's gotten a lot of "slack" whereas Ballou isn't or Cyle didn't in the past. Oh and definitely Marcus Godinho didn't get (which was right, but would things have been said if they knew his dad visits here? probably not)....and it's from the same guys who have contrasting opinions for near similar situations just in the hopes to have a beer with pops.

Form Is temporary class is permanent...well in our case we only have two maybe three guys who fall into the "class" category. Consistency is all I ask. That's the reason I brought him up.

I invite you to go back and peruse my other responses regarding Cyle and Godinho.  You'll find that I was one of the few that still thought Godinho could do a job after the Gold Cup, particularly given his age.  You'll find the same for Cyle.

The main crux of this is that you don't think U23 minutes are valuable.  I do.  I think captaining the Liverpool U23 team is more impressive than someone that is in and out of a mediocre MLS squad (let alone getting on the pitch).

[El Hombre]

Just now, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

Like I said with Cavallini suspended for the first match of March, put Larin in as the central striker for that match, but let's call up Rob Friend so he can play as the central striker for the match against the Cayman Islands!

If there is a guy that deserves a testimonial its the Friendly Giant.  Goddamn he's a legend.

[HochelagaFC]

1 hour ago, Shway said:To your second point, yes you can say he's been overhyped, and the fact that he hasn't appeared much under four coaches could be said....but the attitude narrative is a figment of peoples imagination.

Regarding Tabla, how could it be a figment of peoples imagination? There as been numerous situations with different coaches where his attitude has been put in question. You can argue that it’s unfair or untrue but it’s totally legitimate to think that his attitude could be the problem given the evidence. To say that it’s a figment of our imagination is ridiculous. 
 

[spitfire]

12 minutes ago, Shway said:

And then in 2020? One got in games playing very few minutes, and the other didn't play at all. 

Everbody has a story, some don't get the opportunity and that's part of theirs. For the ones that are forging their stories I support each and every player strongly who represents Canada. The buck stops there.

Butttttt since this is the Canadian national team supporters forum, where player discussion is a focus, and current form is a reference. Every player should be treated with the same energy, same microscope regardless of their parent coming on here. In Liams case, he's gotten a lot of "slack" whereas Ballou isn't or Cyle didn't in the past. Oh and definitely Marcus Godinho didn't get (which was right, but would things have been said if they knew his dad visits here? probably not)....and it's from the same guys who have contrasting opinions for near similar situations just in the hopes to have a beer with pops.

Form Is temporary class is permanent...well in our case we only have two maybe three guys who fall into the "class" category. Consistency is all I ask. That's the reason I brought him up.

You’re  a joker.

And for the record Liam played in 2020 in the FA cup for Liverpool FC 

Then I don’t know if you heard but the world had a pandemic and the premier league shut down for 4 months... he tried to get out on loan it didn’t work in the fall so he played PL2 getting nominated for player of the month 2 out of the 3 months and became Captain of the u23s which helped him grow as a player.

This has never been about slack or me being a parent I can count 5/6 times u have had a personal issue with Liam and are always the first to call him out... but u don’t have the balls to admit it’s personal. 
 

I am always happy for the success of other players tbh I celebrate it. It can only make Canada better  but I can’t and won’t take baseless bullshit and bashing for personal reasons. And that applies to all Canadian players. 
 

Tabla is a very talent player that is on his own pathway let’s give him time to sort it out.. this world needs more positivity and less asshole.s

Let’s hope the camp goes ahead we need the games ...

 

I’m out...

 

 

[Dominic94]

1 hour ago, spitfire said:

I should know better than reply. 
Tajon is a very good player he has 3 goals in 33 games  with NE REV in the MLS one season  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tajon_Buchanan 

I see no hype on Liam btw. I see a player that has worked very hard moved up the ranks he has his own pathway...

He moved to the UK at 13 rose though the ranks at Fulham scoring 65 goals to be the top scorer in the UK at u16 winning two national championships. While at Fulham he played for the u16 Canadian national team at 14 in the Montague tournament under Sean Fleming. Moves to Liverpool fc U16s after turning down 5 epl clubs. He then played for Canada again at U20 ( Concacaf qualifying with Rob Gale) continuing to play for LFC u18s scoring a Hat trick  on his debut  he scored 15 goals and 18 assists that year  

He then makes his debut for the senior men’s team at 18 in a man of the match performance vs New Zealand. 
https://www.canadasoccer.com/profile/?id=6079&teamId=2078

He played in the UEFA youth league where he scored 5 goals and 4 assists in 10 games 

At 18 he then goes on loan to the SPFL to Kilmarnock where he struggles in a very poor side (with lots of turmoil behind the scenes) to get consistent numbers but does well enough to be near to top the league in dribbles and take on and running with the ball amassing 3 goals and 4 assists in 33 games for Kilmarnock (the third goal was in the Scottish league cup I was there)

He is recalled to Liverpool FC and makes his Liverpool FC senior debut in the FA Cup vs Shrewsbury. He finishes that season before lockdown with 5 goals and 4 assists in 10 games for the u23s. He has interest from several clubs domestic and abroad but decides to stay at LFC to Captain of the. Liverpool FC reserves. He had 5 goals and 4 assists this season in 14games. 

He decided to take a loan to league in after signing another 2 and a half year pro contract with Liverpool FC. His third pro contract with Liverpool FC 
 

Everyone is on their own pathway but let’s throw it all away because a player has a good season in the MLS... 

 

I should know better then to respond but I’m sick to death of it all to be really honest. The same shit happens with JD and Cyle  the amount of shit thrown at them too is staggering... Let the players grow and develop and be happy we have options and spend a little less time bashing....

Love when you chime in. Always appreciated. This is amazing for any player, Kilmarnock wasn’t the best team or fit and SPL is rough....

 

you mentioned the behind the scenes and that’s something none of us can relate to or know. Always enjoy your insight, people forget development isn’t linear. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

6 hours ago, HochelagaFC said:

By the way I didn’t make anything up. I wasnt clear enough but every situation I talked about is well documented.

He's only had problems at Impact. Everywhere else he had no problems with his coaches, however the experience went for him. The only problem is the Impact organisation but he seems to want to be there, I can't figure it out. 

[Shway]

27 minutes ago, spitfire said:

You’re  a joker.

And for the record Liam played in 2020 in the FA cup for Liverpool FC 

Then I don’t know if you heard but the world had a pandemic and the premier league shut down for 4 months... he tried to get out on loan it didn’t work in the fall so he played PL2 getting nominated for player of the month 2 out of the 3 months and became Captain of the u23s which helped him grow as a player.

This has never been about slack or me being a parent I can count 5/6 times u have had a personal issue with Liam and are always the first to call him out... but u don’t have the balls to admit it’s personal. 
 

I am always happy for the success of other players tbh I celebrate it. It can only make Canada better  but I can’t and won’t take baseless bullshit and bashing for personal reasons. And that applies to all Canadian players. 
 

Tabla is a very talent player that is on his own pathway let’s give him time to sort it out.. this world needs more positivity and less asshole.s

Let’s hope the camp goes ahead we need the games ...

I’m out...

Why or how could I have anything personal with the kid? That sounds juvenile - like he's taking my spot in the team or something. So I don't know what I'm supposed to admit. 

Also nothing was directed to you, as you are doing everything a parent would do...I know I definitely would come to my sons defence. But like I said, nothing was directed to you or at you. 

I mentioned Liam, and I typically do because he's always mentioned as if he's in the top 18 of Canadian players but then completely dismissing other guys who were/are in form/playing. I mentioned him for the same reason you quoted me on in reference to Tabla. Same user, near similar situations, different energies based on what... someones idea of what they think is going on?

Again nothing was directed to you but since you mentioned it, you don't celebrate any other players or tune in to much threads other than your sons. It only comes in when there's a comparison...it was Borges before, Tabla & Buchanan today, Corbeanu tomorrow. And again, theres's nothing wrong with that from a parents perspective but this is an open forum to discuss all players and treat them the same regardless if there mom or dad tune in. 

Also the pandemic affected all footballers, not just Liam. Some guys benefited from it, and some didn't but thats how the world works, it's how international football works. There's no contracts, it's typically based on what are you doing now. We can only look at today, and not predict the future regardless if it's promising. 

Cheers

Edited January 11, 2021 by Shway

[archer21]

2 hours ago, Shway said:

Why or how could I have anything personal with the kid? That sounds juvenile - like he's taking my spot in the team or something. So I don't know what I'm supposed to admit. 

Also nothing was directed to you, as you are doing everything a parent would do...I know I definitely would come to my sons defence. But like I said, nothing was directed to you or at you. 

I mentioned Liam, and I typically do because he's always mentioned as if he's in the top 18 of Canadian players but then completely dismissing other guys who were/are in form/playing. I mentioned him for the same reason you quoted me on in reference to Tabla. Same user, near similar situations, different energies based on what... someones idea of what they think is going on?

Again nothing was directed to you but since you mentioned it, you don't celebrate any other players or tune in to much threads other than your sons. It only comes in when there's a comparison...it was Borges before, Tabla & Buchanan today, Corbeanu tomorrow. And again, theres's nothing wrong with that from a parents perspective but this is an open forum to discuss all players and treat them the same regardless if there mom or dad tune in. 

Also the pandemic affected all footballers, not just Liam. Some guys benefited from it, and some didn't but thats how the world works, it's how international football works. There's no contracts, it's typically based on what are you doing now. We can only look at today, and not predict the future regardless if it's promising. 

Cheers

The problem is your energy is wildly in the other direction. Just because some people are a little more careful with their words to not offend Liam’s father, doesn’t mean you have to go out of your way to be overly critical.

I would argue that you are being more unfair to Millar than others are being to Tabla. And the reason is because you think others are being unfair to Tabla and going easy on Millar. Ironic really.

Edited January 12, 2021 by archer21

[kacbru]

2 hours ago, Shway said:

Why or how could I have anything personal with the kid? That sounds juvenile - like he's taking my spot in the team or something. So I don't know what I'm supposed to admit. 

Also nothing was directed to you, as you are doing everything a parent would do...I know I definitely would come to my sons defence. But like I said, nothing was directed to you or at you. 

I mentioned Liam, and I typically do because he's always mentioned as if he's in the top 18 of Canadian players but then completely dismissing other guys who were/are in form/playing. I mentioned him for the same reason you quoted me on in reference to Tabla. Same user, near similar situations, different energies based on what... someones idea of what they think is going on?

Again nothing was directed to you but since you mentioned it, you don't celebrate any other players or tune in to much threads other than your sons. It only comes in when there's a comparison...it was Borges before, Tabla & Buchanan today, Corbeanu tomorrow. And again, theres's nothing wrong with that from a parents perspective but this is an open forum to discuss all players and treat them the same regardless if there mom or dad tune in. 

Also the pandemic affected all footballers, not just Liam. Some guys benefited from it, and some didn't but thats how the world works, it's how international football works. There's no contracts, it's typically based on what are you doing now. We can only look at today, and not predict the future regardless if it's promising. 

Cheers

Maybe not with Liam, but it seems like you have something personal with the parent.  It's not the first time you've brought up the fact that you perceive there to be a problem with a parent contributing to this forum and how that clouds all of our judgement (e.g. below where you raise it unprompted).

 

3 hours ago, Shway said:

Every player should be treated with the same energy, same microscope regardless of their parent coming on here. 

 

[trc2014]

Sooooo................
 

I’m happy the camp isn’t cancelled.

[costarg]

6 hours ago, Dominic94 said:

I’m fairly certain is been reported that Ballou’s entourage isn’t so great.

It wasn't so much reported, as built from a vague statement made from a coach.  Pretty sure it was Biello, he was asked by media what the situation with Ballou was when he didn't show up for practice and got suspended.  The coach replied with something along the lines of "I feel Ballou is being poorly guided by his entourage, he's young and needs to understand the coach decides when he plays not his entourage." 

Thing is, entourage is a vague term.  Everyone in Montreal wanted to see him play, the fans and the media were intrigued, his name was all over the place, he owned the match vs Roma.  The entourage in question was very likely the media, not his family/friends.  Yes Ballou wanted to play and protested.  He was 100% being held back, Biello kept repeating they were protecting him and his development from the expectations, meanwhile Choniere is getting minutes, no need to protect him?  Explain that one.

[costarg]

6 hours ago, El Hombre said:

2) I have no false narratives or accusations.  The kid has not performed on the field.  And yet people still think he's some wunderkind.  

Ok, I promise, my last comment on the Ballou subject.

3 guys, similar positions, same age, very different leagues.  Statistics are always tricky for comparisons, but still, can't really say he has not performed on the field: 

Ballou G/393 minutes
Buchanan G/616 minutes
Millar G/267 minutes

 

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

I expected this thread to be derailed by more fake epidemiological statements about COVID19 but it actually got derailed by a Tabla vs Millar debate (neither of whom are going to attend Camp Poutine).

As is often the case everyone seems more frustrated and angry than before.

[costarg]

Just now, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

I expected this thread to be derailed by more fake epidemiological statements about COVID19 but it actually got derailed by a Tabla vs Millar debate (neither of whom are going to attend Camp Poutine).

As is often the case everyone seems more frustrated and angry than before.

My bad, sorry about that.  However, there is no anger or frustration happening here, just a discussion and expanding on info/data.  Peace.

[El Hombre]

18 minutes ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

I expected this thread to be derailed by more fake epidemiological statements about COVID19 but it actually got derailed by a Tabla vs Millar debate (neither of whom are going to attend Camp Poutine).

As is often the case everyone seems more frustrated and angry than before.

There's method to the madness: if you derail a thread on one topic, you can't derail it on another....