Ralph Priso

[Kadenge]

18 minutes ago, Obinna said:

The thing that seems to hold Okello back is his lack of physicality. He is 6 ft. 5 and gets knocked off the ball so easily. He's already 21 this year too, so if he hasn't developed that by now, you have to wonder if he'll ever get it. Not sure what it's going to take for that to happen, sadly. 

It's different than say holding the ball up as a forward. There is technique to that and timing. It's much less so with winning your midfield battles. That's more about hunger and desire. Maybe that's what's holding him back? It feels like he's ignored the physical side of the game at the expense of being good with his feet.

Given his physical attributes perhaps more playing time will translate to confidence and assertiveness. I have seen physically imposing junior players get pushed around in their first 2 NHL seasons. Not everyone is a Wendel Clark

[An Observer]

14 minutes ago, Obinna said:

The thing that seems to hold Okello back is his lack of physicality. He is 6 ft. 5 and gets knocked off the ball so easily. He's already 21 this year too, so if he hasn't developed that by now, you have to wonder if he'll ever get it. Not sure what it's going to take for that to happen, sadly. 

It's different than say holding the ball up as a forward. There is technique to that and timing. It's much less so with winning your midfield battles. That's more about hunger and desire. Maybe that's what's holding him back? It feels like he's ignored the physical side of the game at the expense of being good with his feet.

Many of you have watched him more than me but I would agree with this assessment. He’s great with his feet but he doesn’t use his physicality and has very low intensity.  The thing I don’t get though is that should be relatively easy to teach.  Send him down to TFC II and tell him that you have one thing to do. Raise your intensity and dominate physically for 90 minutes in the midfield. And after every match, the coaches should take him aside and go through the match film with him and praise what he did well and constructively explain where he lacked intensity. He’s a project for sure but you rarely have someone who has the physical tools like him who could become a beast in midfield. It’s almost like we are watching him coast through his crucial development years. Someone needs to get in his head. 

[gator]

1 hour ago, ag futbol said:

There’s been more than enough of Nelson over the last year to demonstrate he’s is not ready. He looks like someone who was told he was the best player on the pitch and given a free role for his entire youth career who is now suddenly grappling with how to find a way to get first team minutes and play within a system. He lacks a lot of the requisites to be ready to be provided first team minutes. 

Okello is a head scratcher. Not sure what to think there. Maybe he’s the best example of being short changed. Upside very clear, position he’ll play sort of ambiguous and not sure either the player or club have a plan.

Compared to the other two Priso has appeared more game ready since the first time he stepped on the pitch. Okello has some mixed performances and I think probably be given a sting of games to see how he does. Nelson has never turned in a clean first team performance, ever. Priso had a few in his pocket after only a few outings.

To me it looks like the development process is getting screwed up before it even reaches the first team. All of these kids are talented and have the potential to be solid pros.

People who should be more knowledgeable about this than you and I and probably everyone on this board have made decisions what stage these youngsters are at and what kind of first team minutes they are ready for if needed, I watch a lot of TFC and can't say I have seen enough of Nelson to think he shouldn't play more! I am basing my opinion a lot on what I saw from the Canadian youth in the CCL matches with Mexican competition and I thought they all looked relatively fearless and played well!

[dyslexic nam]

2 minutes ago, An Observer said:

Many of you have watched him more than me but I would agree with this assessment. He’s great with his feet but he doesn’t use his physicality and has very low intensity.  The thing I don’t get though is that should be relatively easy to teach.  Send him down to TFC II and tell him that you have one thing to do. Raise your intensity and dominate physically for 90 minutes in the midfield. And after every match, the coaches should take him aside and go through the match film with him and praise what he did well and constructively explain where he lacked intensity. He’s a project for sure but you rarely have someone who has the physical tools like him who could become a beast in midfield. It’s almost like we are watching him coast through his crucial development years. Someone needs to get in his head. 

Even the idea of heading the ball more often seems like something that should be drilled into him.  For reasons that don’t need stating, he should be an absolute terror in the air whether defending or attacking set pieces.  The fact that this isn’t utilized to full advantage seems like an error of coaching.  

[dyslexic nam]

Apologies for the off-topic post, but just a gentle reminder to folks that Forge play in the CONCACAF Champions League in 15 minutes.  Game on OneSoccer.  

[ag futbol]

24 minutes ago, gator said:

People who should be more knowledgeable about this than you and I and probably everyone on this board have made decisions what stage these youngsters are at and what kind of first team minutes they are ready for if needed, I watch a lot of TFC and can't say I have seen enough of Nelson to think he shouldn't play more! I am basing my opinion a lot on what I saw from the Canadian youth in the CCL matches with Mexican competition and I thought they all looked relatively fearless and played well!

Respectfully, even if we take the tact we’re not experts and should leave the decisions to the pros, (and I’m not sure that should really be what we aspire to here given it sort of shuts down a lot of discussion and this is just something we all do for fun), by your logic does it not follow that the experts who are most informed about Nelson and see him play every day have determined he’s not ready for more first teams minutes?

Look, I’d agree with what earlier poster that said he’s got dazzling technical skills but is otherwise tactically lacking. Let’s see him form the right habits in USL-1 or on loan in USL-C before we start talking about first team minutes. For him, I’m less concerned with filling the stat sheet at these levels than I would be with tactical acumen. I am sure, if he can raise this element of his game he’d be useful at the MLS level. But throwing him on the field with TFC where he’s at now is not the way.

[gator]

3 minutes ago, ag futbol said:

Respectfully, even if we take the tact we’re not experts and should leave the decisions to the pros, (and I’m not sure that should really be what we aspire to here given it sort of shuts down a lot of discussion and this is just something we all do for fun), by your logic does it not follow that the experts who are most informed about Nelson and see him play every day have determined he’s not ready for more first teams minutes?

Look, I’d agree with what earlier poster that said he’s got dazzling technical skills but is otherwise tactically lacking. Let’s see him form the right habits in USL-1 or on loan in USL-C before we start talking about first team minutes. For him, I’m less concerned with filling the stat sheet at these levels than I would be with tactical acumen. I am sure, if he can raise this element of his game he’d be useful at the MLS level. But throwing him on the field with TFC where he’s at now is not the way.

That was my point, it doesn't really matter what we think, it is just discussion!

[Obinna]

30 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

Even the idea of heading the ball more often seems like something that should be drilled into him.  For reasons that don’t need stating, he should be an absolute terror in the air whether defending or attacking set pieces.  The fact that this isn’t utilized to full advantage seems like an error of coaching.  

I'm not sure coaching is the issue. If we see it so have all of his coaches. They have likely encoraged him to be physical already. The problem ultimatetly lies with him. He needs to make it happen at the end of the day.

He plays like a small technical player in a big man's body. Credit to him for developing that side of his game, but he really needs to become more rounded or he's not going anywhere.

Maybe that's just not who he is as a player, which is a real shame. You can't flick a switch and turn a Marco Bustos into a Doneil Henry. Some players just don't have those instincts to tackle and win balls. 

This is my complaint about Theo Bair too, by the way. With Okello it's just more frusturating because the lad is absolutelty massive.

 

[SthMelbRed]

7 minutes ago, gator said:

That was my point, it doesn't really matter what we think, it is just discussion!

Your point only stands if we assume that the 'experts' are actually competent. For example, as a Whitecaps' supporter, I want to see Kam Habibullah play more. From the very few minutes he has played, he looks like he's worth seeing more in the right situations. It's true that I don't see him in training everyday, but that doesn't mean I can't see how the senior players perform in matches and how that compares with what we saw in limited minutes from Kam.

Now, there was a game a few weeks ago where the 'Caps were typically shit against a pretty ordinary opponent whom I can't recall at the moment. Kam was on the bench. The 'Caps were down a goal at HT, but came out and played decently for the first 15-20 minutes of the 2nd half. Unfortunately for them, they conceded 2 quick goals between the 70th and 75th minutes. The game was over as a contest for all intents and purposes. However, instead of subbing Kam on for the remaining 15 minutes plus stoppage time, giving him an opportunity to get some playing time with and against men, the incompetent manager, or 'expert', as you call him, decided to let him rot on the bench.

As a supporter, I feel more than entitled to voice my displeasure against such idiocy. And I did so on Twitter and on this forum, and if I'd been in the stadium, I would have done so there, as well.

[BearcatSA]

5 hours ago, Obinna said:

He plays like a small technical player in a big man's body.

Sounds like you're describing Theo Bair here.

[Obinna]

24 minutes ago, BearcatSA said:

Sounds like you're describing Theo Bair here.

 

5 hours ago, Obinna said:

This is my complaint about Theo Bair too, by the way. With Okello it's just more frusturating because the lad is absolutelty massive.

 

[BearcatSA]

^When I was skimming your post, the paragraph in question just jumped out at me and I failed to read the last one.  Oops☺️.  

Priso looks like a strong work rate guy.  If Okello isn't, he probably wouldn't be getting minutes on the Caps, either, because that is the first priority for all the mids, forwards, and fullbacks on that team.

[Free kick]

On 8/12/2021 at 10:26 AM, TOcanadafan said:

I think what frustrates many of us on the board is that in many cases, they don’t think that the guys getting the minutes are better than the young Canadians.  And even in some cases when the argument can be made that you know what you’re getting with the useless vets, a run of games for the youngsters will have them surpass then vets soon enough.  And week after week we see most of the other MLS teams giving their youth a chance which only compounds the frustration.  

I completely agree that sometimes, some of us overrate some of the Canadians (I was guilty of over praising Fraser at times - although he may be proving me right this year when he finally is getting that chance), but let’s give them an actual chance is all we’re saying.  I’m with you in not rating Singh, but Slomar and Zav at the back have TFC in last place - so I can’t disagree with those who would like to see Singh (or Dunn) get a guaranteed run of games.

Their approach of overpaying for an MLS journeyman to compliment the stars who were performing worked when TFC was challenging for titles, but there were too many signs even in the last year they made the final that this was their “last dance” and a new pragmatic approach that included an actual on field development plan for their academy players was needed, and not just a media hype blitz about how much talent we have in the academy.

When evaluating and judging players in soccer (on game by game basis) here is what i observed and learned:  

if you are looking for positives in a player’s performance, you will always find positives.

if you are looking for negatives in a player’s performance, you will always find negatives.  
 

The problem i have observed here far too often is that because we are all canadians here and we wanted canadians to do well,  too many people will look at a canadian kids with the eye of looking for positives.   And when it comes to americans they will do the opposite.    Any professional coach whose jobs is deliver results, looks at the bigger picture and hence is not going to look at nationality of a player.  so invitably, you will see some of the same few who will point finger at some sort rediculous nationality bias agianst the canadian kids. Frustrating.  
 

Me, as a season ticket holder and supporter of our national teams, i want to see good canadian players developing but i also want to see a good competitive product on the field.  I am far more engaged when the team is good:  i will always know when the next game is on,  i look more forward to going down to stadium,   I will check the standings regularly,  i will listen more often to the extratime podcasts….etc.   this is the delicate balance that has to be struck.   

 

 

 

Edited August 14, 2021 by Free kick

[TOcanadafan]

1 minute ago, Free kick said:

The problem i have observed here far too often is that because we are all canadians here and we wanted canadians to do well,  too many people will look at a canadian kids with the eye of looking for positives.   And when it comes to americans they will do the opposite.    

 

 

 

I can’t argue that most of us are ‘guilty’ in holding some sort of this bias (and I don’t restrict it to Americans, as I think Endoh is just as useless).

But my frustration is more around playing the useless veterans vs. not giving the younger players a chance when you’re in last place.  Playing this core of veterans is what got you into last place, and the club’s strategy to get them back into contention was to double down on their ‘experience’?  Insanity!

[BearcatSA]

1 hour ago, Free kick said:

When evaluating and judging players in soccer (on game by game basis) here is what i observed and learned:  

if you are looking for positives in a player’s performance, you will always find positives.

if you are looking for negatives in a player’s performance, you will always find negatives.  
 

The problem i have observed here far too often is that because we are all canadians here and we wanted canadians to do well,  too many people will look at a canadian kids with the eye of looking for positives.   And when it comes to americans they will do the opposite.    Any professional coach whose jobs is deliver results, looks at the bigger picture and hence is not going to look at nationality of a player.  so invitably, you will see some of the same few who will point finger at some sort rediculous nationality bias agianst the canadian kids. Frustrating.  
 

Me, as a season ticket holder and supporter of our national teams, i want to see good canadian players developing but i also want to see a good competitive product on the field.  I am far more engaged when the team is good:  i will always know when the next game is on,  i look more forward to going down to stadium,   I will check the standings regularly,  i will listen more often to the extratime podcasts….etc.   this is the delicate balance that has to be struck.   

 

 

 

I call it "passport bias."  I take pride in my objectivity in assessing players on here (since 2003 😉) and I try hard not to let the the nationality get in the way.  Sometimes it does, but not often. 

Priso looks like a rising stock to me, at this point.  Edgar Davids-esque:  if he can be close to that, it would fantastic.  But things could change, either through injury or attitude. 

[maccaliam]

2 hours ago, Free kick said:

When evaluating and judging players in soccer (on game by game basis) here is what i observed and learned:  

if you are looking for positives in a player’s performance, you will always find positives.

if you are looking for negatives in a player’s performance, you will always find negatives.  
 

The problem i have observed here far too often is that because we are all canadians here and we wanted canadians to do well,  too many people will look at a canadian kids with the eye of looking for positives.   And when it comes to americans they will do the opposite.    Any professional coach whose jobs is deliver results, looks at the bigger picture and hence is not going to look at nationality of a player.  so invitably, you will see some of the same few who will point finger at some sort rediculous nationality bias agianst the canadian kids. Frustrating.  
 

Me, as a season ticket holder and supporter of our national teams, i want to see good canadian players developing but i also want to see a good competitive product on the field.  I am far more engaged when the team is good:  i will always know when the next game is on,  i look more forward to going down to stadium,   I will check the standings regularly,  i will listen more often to the extratime podcasts….etc.   this is the delicate balance that has to be struck.   

I feel that most people would agree with much of your post. I certainly do. We are all biased in one way or another. Very few supporters want to see TFC tank in order to get a few players on the field, but when they are tanking with the veterans and are giving little opportunity to the young Canadians in those spots, it definitely hurts more than it would the other way around (for me anyway). 

The only real point I disagree with is that it appears you are suggesting that coaches/management are not biased because they “have to look at the bigger picture”.  Every manager in world football is biased in one way or another. They are human and we all are. Now it may not be bias against Canadians but it very well could be bias toward favouring certain nationalities or veterans, or something else entirely. They may be making the correct call in not playing the Canadian kids more, or they may not be, but they are not without bias whichever it is. 

[Free kick]

5 hours ago, TOcanadafan said:

But my frustration is more around playing the useless veterans vs. not giving the younger players a chance when you’re in last place. 

Some people were complaining of exactly that even when TFC was in first place or battling for first place.

Edited August 14, 2021 by Free kick

[baulderdash77]

5 hours ago, Free kick said:

When evaluating and judging players in soccer (on game by game basis) here is what i observed and learned:  

if you are looking for positives in a player’s performance, you will always find positives.

if you are looking for negatives in a player’s performance, you will always find negatives.  

I don’t know about that.  I watched the Bayern game the other day and Alphonso Davies was so amazing that anyone watching no matter what thought he looked amazing.  Sometimes he’s just scintillating and it’s a joy to watch.

[Free kick]

13 minutes ago, baulderdash77 said:

I don’t know about that.  I watched the Bayern game the other day and Alphonso Davies was so amazing that anyone watching no matter what thought he looked amazing.  Sometimes he’s just scintillating and it’s a joy to watch.

Sorry. But i am not sure what you are refrring to.   I was referring to the topic of how we look at and judge young canadian players coming through TFC. 

[baulderdash77]

I’m referring to your looking for positive and negative quote.  That may be true sometimes but then other times Davies plays and it’s just amazing no matter what.

[Free kick]

4 minutes ago, baulderdash77 said:

I’m referring to your looking for positive and negative quote.  That may be true sometimes but then other times Davies plays and it’s just amazing no matter what.

Ok.  I agree.  But its safe to say that no one who has come through TFC via the development programs, has looked like Davies.  Not yet anyways.

[TOcanadafan]

1 hour ago, Free kick said:

Ok.  I agree.  But its safe to say that no one who has come through TFC via the development programs, has looked like Davies.  Not yet anyways.

C’mon, TFC has been touting Marshall-Rutty as the next Davies for over a year now 😂

[canuckgbp]

Priso with the start. 

[baulderdash77]

TFC is shockingly sitting Bradley and Altidore and starting Priso!

Maybe a page is being turned here.

[Dominic94]

He cemented his TFC legend status but knocking Michael Bradley out of the starting 11.

 

also, Priso May end up being their Davies.