Ralph Priso

[Obinna]

46 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Auro in midfield??  You ignored that one nicely.  Same with Dorsey.  

And because Zav goes to El Salvador he is now a better player??  I dont need to see what he did at the gold cup I can see the shit he plays when he comes back.  His lazy pass and half hearted attempt to get back in the play against NYC..is that how he played with ELSalvador??  We havnt had Zav on the team for 6 years and 100 games..we dont know what he is about?

And SIngh/Okello didnt make the GC rosters for Canada?? Well cut them then, get rid of them. They dont want to play them, make space for some more american journey men. Should have transferred Okello out to wolfsburg when they had the chance, and let Dunn stay at Valor if they are so shitty they cant afford to play them when the team is last in the league.   

I didn't think Auro and Dorsey were worth comment, but since you insist I think Auro was clearly an experiment that never worked and Dorsey is just not good enough, period.

At least with Auro I can see why they tested that. Good techincal player with a high level of ball control. Those are qualities you want and if I recall correctly Vanney used him in midfield on occassion.

I don't understand what they see in Dorsey.

I have no problem saying those two were not good calls. TFC are not perfect by any means. I just don't rate Okello or Singh. I don't think TFC are in the wrong not to give them more chances than they've already had. I wish they did give them more of a run in the team, but I can see why they haven't got it. They are just not as good as what you think they are, at least in my opinion.

Even with Canada Okello was just as frusturating and unimpressive. Again, is that TFC's fault?

You seem to blame the club incessently for not playing Canadians, even when they clearly aren't an improvement on the guys getting minutes. Is there a young Canadian at TFC who hasn't deserved the chances he's got? If you struggle to find one maybe you should question whether you're just blinded by bias? 

We all want the best for our Canadians here. We are on the same team in that respect. I just think we need to step back from time to time and be objective about where certain guys are in their development.

I truly hope Okello, Singh and even Dunn pull it together. It will only make our national team stronger.

Edited August 12, 2021 by Obinna

[TOcanadafan]

7 hours ago, Obinna said:

You seem to blame the club incessently for not playing Canadians, even when they clearly aren't an improvement on the guys getting minutes. Is there a young Canadian at TFC who hasn't deserved the chances he's got? If you struggle to find one maybe you should question whether you're just blinded by bias? 

We all want the best for our Canadians here. We are on the same team in that respect. I just think we need to step back from time to time and be objective about where certain guys are in their development.

I think what frustrates many of us on the board is that in many cases, they don’t think that the guys getting the minutes are better than the young Canadians.  And even in some cases when the argument can be made that you know what you’re getting with the useless vets, a run of games for the youngsters will have them surpass then vets soon enough.  And week after week we see most of the other MLS teams giving their youth a chance which only compounds the frustration.  

I completely agree that sometimes, some of us overrate some of the Canadians (I was guilty of over praising Fraser at times - although he may be proving me right this year when he finally is getting that chance), but let’s give them an actual chance is all we’re saying.  I’m with you in not rating Singh, but Slomar and Zav at the back have TFC in last place - so I can’t disagree with those who would like to see Singh (or Dunn) get a guaranteed run of games.

Their approach of overpaying for an MLS journeyman to compliment the stars who were performing worked when TFC was challenging for titles, but there were too many signs even in the last year they made the final that this was their “last dance” and a new pragmatic approach that included an actual on field development plan for their academy players was needed, and not just a media hype blitz about how much talent we have in the academy.

Edited August 12, 2021 by TOcanadafan

[Obinna]

5 minutes ago, TOcanadafan said:

I think what frustrates many of us on the board is that in many cases, they don’t think that the guys getting the minutes are better than the young Canadians.  And even in some cases when the argument can be made that you know what you’re getting with the useless vets, a run of games for the youngsters will have them surpass then vets soon enough.  And week after week we see most of the other MLS teams giving their youth a chance which only compounds the frustration.  

I completely agree that sometimes, some of us overrate some of the Canadians (I was guilty of over praising Fraser at times - although he may be proving me right this year when he finally is getting that chance), but let’s give them an actual chance is all we’re saying.  I’m with you in not rating Singh, but Slomar and Zav at the back have TFC in last place - so I can’t disagree with those who would like to see Singh (or Dunn) get a guaranteed run of games.

Their approach of overpaying for an MLS journeyman to compliment the stars who were performing worked when TFC was challenging for titles, but there were too many signs even in the last year they made the final that this was their “last dance” and a new pragmatic approach that included an actual on field development plan for their academy players was needed, and not just a media hype blitz about how much talent we have in the academy.

Yeah I get the frustration and I am with you guys. It sucks to see young Canadians not get more of a chance.

The thing is, posters like @Bison44 (it is not personal bud, you are just the best example) seem to think the club is not giving them a chance because they are Canadian, which I really don't think is the case at all. The issue is that the club's philosophy has been to overpay for MLS journeymen, and as you rightly point out it has worked.

Few young players from any nationality have broken out recently at TFC, but Priso is the exception and guess what? He's Canadian.

To the club's credit they have been trying to implement a new philosophy and even hired a coach who built his name on young players. You can say Armas wasn't the right man and I would agree, but you can clearly what the club are trying to do even if it hasn't come off.

[canuckgbp]

Priso has shown the more minutes he gets his confidence grows. It is clear Bradley can't play 270 minutes in 7 days. Priso needs to be involved in ever game whether that is starting or coming off the bench. 

This season is basically done at this point... not statistically but they would really need to go on a tear. We know what the veterans will give us... and most of them have lost a step. Add in the mental errors and it can be hard to watch. Rotate in some of the young guys to get real minutes and see how the respond at this level. Yeah there will be growing pains but we have pains will the old guard on big wages. 

Hope Priso starts this weekend. 

 

 

[dyslexic nam]

18 minutes ago, canuckgbp said:

Priso has shown the more minutes he gets his confidence grows. It is clear Bradley can't play 270 minutes in 7 days. Priso needs to be involved in ever game whether that is starting or coming off the bench. 

This season is basically done at this point... not statistically but they would really need to go on a tear. We know what the veterans will give us... and most of them have lost a step. Add in the mental errors and it can be hard to watch. Rotate in some of the young guys to get real minutes and see how the respond at this level. Yeah there will be growing pains but we have pains will the old guard on big wages. 

Hope Priso starts this weekend. 

 

 

Honestly, part of me hopes they play the journeymen and lose a bunch so that they are basically eliminated from playoff contention.  It seems like that is the only scenario where they would pull out the kids for extended minutes.   

[canuckgbp]

13 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

Honestly, part of me hopes they play the journeymen and lose a bunch so that they are basically eliminated from playoff contention.  It seems like that is the only scenario where they would pull out the kids for extended minutes.   

Being dead last with only half the games left seems like it should be over. With Perez getting the rest of the season from management I think he won't be as veteran reliant. They need to see what this squad has. I get when he took the reigns the playoffs still were within reach and he felt leaning on the veterans made sense. Last game has hopefully opened some eyes.  

At times the veterans have seemed uninterested, lazy, and full of mental errors. I can live with young players making errors and hopefully learning from them. Part of the process. I don't need to see 1 million dollar Gonzalez being trotted out every 3 days for a game lol. 

Bad form has been rewarded. Didn't seem like it mattered how bad they were playing they were guaranteed the minutes because of status and the wages. 

[SoccMan]

The real talents will eventually rise to the top the posers will be found out, it’s always been like this in pro sports as long as I’ve been following it. Remember as fans we don’t see these players everyday , day in day out . We just watch the games and start wondering why is this guy playing more minutes than the other guy . Sports is not just about the actual game day but it has so much more to do with also the time in between games .  Right now out of all the young players that have seen minutes this season with TFC only one has really stood out and that’s Priso it’s not even close in respect to the other young Canadians that have seen minutes this season . Moreover, if he keeps improving like he has very soon a discussion will have to be had in terms of Priso and the national team . If TFC or the other two Canadian MLS teams can try to develop a couple of players every few seasons for our national team then that’s good . Moreover, with most Canadians coming out of recognized Academies that the MLS approves like a Sigma and some others , the amount of Canadians in the MLS is just going to continue to increase which is only going to eventually help the Canadian national team especially in terms of depth. Good times indeed ahead for the national team and the MLS is and will continue to play a part .

[RS]

11 hours ago, Bison44 said:

Hell Dorsey has played as much as Okello this year and what did he ever do to earn minutes???    

Uh, Dorsey played 29 total minutes in CCL for TFC this season and zero in MLS. He also got released in May and has been with Houston since early July.

Okello's had 321 combined minutes for TFC this year between MLS and CCL, and one full 90 for TFCII. Is it enough? No, probably not. Is it equal to or less than Dorsey's 29? Also no.

Dorsey also played four whole minutes for TFC in 2020, so he isn't a great example of Americans stealing Canadian players' minutes. He literally just made up the numbers for training.

[RS]

For all the shit TFC gets for not playing Canadians enough, they're the likeliest of the three MLS teams to have their players start for Canada next month.

[Kadenge]

 One should expect TFC to produce more Canadian talent/prospects than the other 2 given their geo location.  Agree that right now Priso is the only one that should be starting or getting solid regular minutes, but he proved that last season...yet there was a number of games this season where he either was loaned to TFC II or was on the bench while the vets who have been with the team for 2+ seasons were underperforming. I'm not sure why Dunn, Okello, JMR and Nelson were not loaned to the CPL or USL Championship as its a critical time for them to be playing 

[Bison44]

43 minutes ago, RS said:

Uh, Dorsey played 29 total minutes in CCL for TFC this season and zero in MLS. He also got released in May and has been with Houston since early July.

Okello's had 321 combined minutes for TFC this year between MLS and CCL, and one full 90 for TFCII. Is it enough? No, probably not. Is it equal to or less than Dorsey's 29? Also no.

Dorsey also played four whole minutes for TFC in 2020, so he isn't a great example of Americans stealing Canadian players' minutes. He literally just made up the numbers for training.

When I was looking at TFC team stats, Dorseys must have been a combined Houston/TFC...hence the higher numbers, you are 100% correct. But Frasers stats on the same page are not combined with his Colombus numbers...so I got confused.

   But I am a equal opportunity complainer, I dont care if its ZAV (Elsalvador), Endoh (Japan), Auro (Brazil) etc etc, who TFC are running in instead of blooding some of the prospects.  

[Obinna]

21 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

 One should expect TFC to produce more Canadian talent/prospects than the other 2 given their geo location.  Agree that right now Priso is the only one that should be starting or getting solid regular minutes, but he proved that last season...yet there was a number of games this season where he either was loaned to TFC II or was on the bench while the vets who have been with the team for 2+ seasons were underperforming. I'm not sure why Dunn, Okello, JMR and Nelson were not loaned to the CPL or USL Championship as its a critical time for them to be playing 

I would have been happy to see them loaned to the CPL, but perhaps it's easier to recall them if they're with TFC reserves.

On the TFC producing more Canadian prospects, I don't think that's the problem. I think the problem is finding them first team minutes. The dream is to have 11 Canadians in the starting line up every game, it's rare for clubs to have the majority of their players rise through the youth ranks to the first team. 

Maybe it is just me, but there seems to be many Canadians in the CPL with a TFC connection. Is that evidence they are producing talent just fine?

[Sal333]

1 hour ago, RS said:

For all the shit TFC gets for not playing Canadians enough, they're the likeliest of the three MLS teams to have their players start for Canada next month.

Are you sure about that? T.O. has who likely starting for Canada: Osorio & Laryea? Am I forgetting anyone else? MontrealCF has Piette, Crepeau and Millar.

[Obinna]

7 minutes ago, Sal333 said:

Are you sure about that? T.O. has who likely starting for Canada: Osorio & Laryea? Am I forgetting anyone else? MontrealCF has Piette, Crepeau and Millar.

We could see zero players start from Toronto and Montreal. If Crepeau starts over Borjan Vancouver could have the only representation from Canadian MLS. 

Edited August 12, 2021 by Obinna

[Ruffian]

4 minutes ago, Sal333 said:

Are you sure about that? T.O. has who likely starting for Canada: Osorio & Laryea? Am I forgetting anyone else? MontrealCF has Piette, Crepeau and Millar.

Piette likely won't start and Crepeau is on Vancouver.

[Sal333]

3 minutes ago, Obinna said:

We could see zero players start from Toronto and Montreal. If Crepeau starts over Borjan Vancouver could have the representation from Canadian MLS. 

Jeeze, I had a brain fart. I was still playing Crepeau in Montreal....lol.

[RS]

Just now, Bison44 said:

When I was looking at TFC team stats, Dorseys must have been a combined Houston/TFC...hence the higher numbers, you are 100% correct. But Frasers stats on the same page are not combined with his Colombus numbers...so I got confused.

   But I am a equal opportunity complainer, I dont care if its ZAV (Elsalvador), Endoh (Japan), Auro (Brazil) etc etc, who TFC are running in instead of blooding some of the prospects.  

For sure. I agree that now is the time to see more young blood, especially as the season continues to slip away.

10 minutes ago, Sal333 said:

Are you sure about that? T.O. has who likely starting for Canada: Osorio & Laryea? Am I forgetting anyone else? MontrealCF has Piette, Crepeau and Millar.

Osorio and Laryea are, to me, much more likely to start than Piette and Crepeau. Miller is probably equal to the TFC duo in Herdman's eyes.

[Obinna]

For me Osorio, Laryea, Miller, Piette and Crepeau all have a decent chance to start.

Out of that group, Laryea may be the most likely to start, followed by Osorio.

For Laryea it will depend on how Buchanan is deployed. I would be tempted to play him opposite of Davies in a 3-5-2, but Herdman was experimenting with them on the same side, supposedly. That would open space up for Laryea. I put his chances of starting at slightly above 50/50. 

For Osorio it depends on Arfield and Hutchinson are available. Without them his chances of starting are a near certainty, I think. With them in contention it's hard to say. It will also depend on whether Kaye is preferred or not. May depend on the opponent. It's kind of up in the air for me.

For Piette it's like Osorio but more straight forward, just because we seem to have a clear pecking order established now with 1. Eustaquio and 2. Piette. I would definitely say Piette is the least likely to start out of that group of 5.

Miller is a 50/50 for me. I think it will be him or Kennedy. I think Vitoria will be back in the middle. Crepeau I would put at slightly below 50/50. He seems closer than ever to winning the number 1 jersey from Borjan, but you'd still have to give Milan the edge based on history, I think. Wouldn't surprise or upset me if Max starts though. A changing of the guard may be refreshing...

[gator]

I don't think we have seen enough of Okello or Nelson to say they aren't ready, many were saying the same about Priso and look what happens once he gets minutes, he will make mistakes and get benched I'm sure but given an opportunity he has shown to be capable!

[ag futbol]

2 hours ago, gator said:

I don't think we have seen enough of Okello or Nelson to say they aren't ready, many were saying the same about Priso and look what happens once he gets minutes, he will make mistakes and get benched I'm sure but given an opportunity he has shown to be capable!

There’s been more than enough of Nelson over the last year to demonstrate he’s is not ready. He looks like someone who was told he was the best player on the pitch and given a free role for his entire youth career who is now suddenly grappling with how to find a way to get first team minutes and play within a system. He lacks a lot of the requisites to be ready to be provided first team minutes. 

Okello is a head scratcher. Not sure what to think there. Maybe he’s the best example of being short changed. Upside very clear, position he’ll play sort of ambiguous and not sure either the player or club have a plan.

Compared to the other two Priso has appeared more game ready since the first time he stepped on the pitch. Okello has some mixed performances and I think probably be given a sting of games to see how he does. Nelson has never turned in a clean first team performance, ever. Priso had a few in his pocket after only a few outings.

To me it looks like the development process is getting screwed up before it even reaches the first team. All of these kids are talented and have the potential to be solid pros.

[LeoH037]

6 hours ago, ag futbol said:

There’s been more than enough of Nelson over the last year to demonstrate he’s is not ready. He looks like someone who was told he was the best player on the pitch and given a free role for his entire youth career who is now suddenly grappling with how to find a way to get first team minutes and play within a system. He lacks a lot of the requisites to be ready to be provided first team minutes. 

Okello is a head scratcher. Not sure what to think there. Maybe he’s the best example of being short changed. Upside very clear, position he’ll play sort of ambiguous and not sure either the player or club have a plan.

Compared to the other two Priso has appeared more game ready since the first time he stepped on the pitch. Okello has some mixed performances and I think probably be given a sting of games to see how he does. Nelson has never turned in a clean first team performance, ever. Priso had a few in his pocket after only a few outings.

To me it looks like the development process is getting screwed up before it even reaches the first team. All of these kids are talented and have the potential to be solid pros.

it just goes to show that development is not linear, Okello and Nelson were arguably more came more highly rated , yet when its comes to getting things done and real on field performances, Priso is the one standing out, and running with it;  it's not something we can really quantify or predict. Personally it didn't take me long to feel real good about Priso and his ability to handle MLS' level, but I can't say the same for Okello or Nelson. Maybe its just me, but I get some real Tyler Adams (whom I'm a big fan of) vibes from Priso.

Edited August 13, 2021 by LeoH037

[Kadenge]

Nelsen definitely has the technical ability. What he is short of and the same was true for the entire Canada U17 WC team, was tactical awareness. Priso, who was in the shadow of Nelsen at the U17 WC seems to have adjusted better at this point. Nelsen just needs to play as much as possible in a pro environment such as CPL/USL Championship for a full season. I think Okello could benefit from more sub minutes with TFC.  His ability on the ball for a big guy is quite incredible. I really think he is capable of playing in MLS if his minutes are  managed and he is brought on in the right situations

[Obinna]

16 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

Nelsen definitely has the technical ability. What he is short of and the same was true for the entire Canada U17 WC team, was tactical awareness. Priso, who was in the shadow of Nelsen at the U17 WC seems to have adjusted better at this point. Nelsen just needs to play as much as possible in a pro environment such as CPL/USL Championship for a full season. I think Okello could benefit from more sub minutes with TFC.  His ability on the ball for a big guy is quite incredible. I really think he is capable of playing in MLS if his minutes are  managed and he is brought on in the right situations

The thing that seems to hold Okello back is his lack of physicality. He is 6 ft. 5 and gets knocked off the ball so easily. He's already 21 this year too, so if he hasn't developed that by now, you have to wonder if he'll ever get it. Not sure what it's going to take for that to happen, sadly. 

It's different than say holding the ball up as a forward. There is technique to that and timing. It's much less so with winning your midfield battles. That's more about hunger and desire. Maybe that's what's holding him back? It feels like he's ignored the physical side of the game at the expense of being good with his feet.

[dyslexic nam]

23 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

Nelsen definitely has the technical ability. What he is short of and the same was true for the entire Canada U17 WC team, was tactical awareness. Priso, who was in the shadow of Nelsen at the U17 WC seems to have adjusted better at this point. Nelsen just needs to play as much as possible in a pro environment such as CPL/USL Championship for a full season. I think Okello could benefit from more sub minutes with TFC.  His ability on the ball for a big guy is quite incredible. I really think he is capable of playing in MLS if his minutes are  managed and he is brought on in the right situations

At the end of the day, I think this is the checkmate argument.  If they aren’t ready for the first team, let them go to a competitive environment where they will play and get quality game minutes.  It is the limbo of TFC’s not-quite-good-enough status that I find really frustrating.  They are just losing years.  

[Obinna]

6 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

At the end of the day, I think this is the checkmate argument.  If they aren’t ready for the first team, let them go to a competitive environment where they will play and get quality game minutes.  It is the limbo of TFC’s not-quite-good-enough status that I find really frustrating.  They are just losing years.  

He's already doing that with TFC 2

There was a time I never wanted him to leave, just because I thought he would/could have an immediate impact with the first team. Unfortunately, he still needs to develop tactically, so he needs to drop a level and play first team minutes.

He's scored 3 goals in 6 games for the reserves, but I haven't seen any of the games or even highlights. Is he still relying on his skill? If so maybe that's not such a good thing.

In Nelson I think you need to find either a CPL loan or a European loan, asap. 

Europe would be ideal, maybe in the Danish or Norwegian top flight. Get him out of his comfort zone and put him in an environment/system that'll nurture his talents and help develop his tactical awareness. Maybe even Belgium or Holland might be good in this respect. 

As for a CPL loan, that may be a good option too. He'll have to play in another teams setup and that may be good. It still might be too comfortable though, that's the only thing, both on the field and off it.