November friendlies

[SthMelbRed]

15 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Some of you may not like @SpursFlubecause of his provocative posts, but he touching on something. Western society is an absolute mess. There is chaos and dysfunction all over the place, even in Canada. We have a serious problem with homelessness, under employment, inequality, political/social division, and yes even corruption. Even our prime minister is the subject of corruption allegations.

We may point the blame in different directions, but for sure we have a sickness, both figuratively and literally with covid.

Even the bickering here is a microcosm of that sickness. If you don't like someone's point of view, soccer or otherwise, refute it directly instead of insulting the poster personally. It goes both ways. 

Be better everyone.

And SpursFlu, I would be up to grab a beer with you any day of the week. The same goes to @SthMelbRed, and all of you for that matter. We are all Canadian soccer supporters and more importantly we are all Canadians. Let's respect one another.

The diversity of opinion is not any less important than all the other sorts of diversity this great country prides itself on. 

First off, I would happily sit down with you for a meal or a beer, even though there is a lot we disagree on (and a lot that we agree on, as well, to be fair).

Secondly, @SpursFlu has been spouting nonsense on this board for many months, even continuing along tangents long after his arguments have been refuted by many posters. What can you do about a man like that other than to call him out for the imbecile that he is whenever it is warranted? Let's also not forget that, only an hour ago, this knobhead questioned my manhood on this very forum, something that he most definitely wouldn't do to my face.

Finally, you list a number of problems that we have in society...homelessness, unemployment, corruption, divisive politics...

I'm confused why you list these problems to bolster your claim that 'Western civilisation' is an absolute mess. These are problems in every part of the world, not just in Europe, Canada, the USA, and the Antipodes (assuming that that's what you mean when you refer to Western Civilisation). These are problems that existed long before Covid and will continue to exist after the current pandemic ends. If you want to talk about what we can do to mitigate against those problems, I'm happy to have a discussion on that topic. I don't have all the answers and would love to hear your opinions on how we might eliminate those problems from society. However, that discussion would have very little to do with Covid.

[Shway]

Man, I was completely offline all day (rarely) and like many of you to get this news it’s beyond depressing, and disheartening.

At this point i’ll wait to here the circumstances of other Concacaf nations before I lambaste the CSA. 

The money bullshït thing, I’m definitely not buying it. 

[JamboAl]

1 hour ago, Obinna said:

Good question. Alberta seems open for business. Things are chugging along in this part of the country, but obviously that is not the case elsewhere. 

Where there is a will there is a way, I just don't think there is a will.

I think if the CSA were bloody minded enough to do it, they could.  But with the current situation here and in Europe, I'm neither overly disappointed nor surprised; more just resigned to the situation.

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, SthMelbRed said:

First off, I would happily sit down with you for a meal or a beer, even though there is a lot we disagree on (and a lot that we agree on, as well, to be fair).

Secondly, @SpursFlu has been spouting nonsense on this board for many months, even continuing along tangents long after his arguments have been refuted by many posters. What can you do about a man like that other than to call him out for the imbecile that he is whenever it is warranted? Let's also not forget that, only an hour ago, this knobhead questioned my manhood on this very forum, something that he most definitely wouldn't do to my face.

Finally, you list a number of problems that we have in society...homelessness, unemployment, corruption, divisive politics...

I'm confused why you list these problems to bolster your claim that 'Western civilisation' is an absolute mess. These are problems in every part of the world, not just in Europe, Canada, the USA, and the Antipodes (assuming that that's what you mean when you refer to Western Civilisation). These are problems that existed long before Covid and will continue to exist after the current pandemic ends. If you want to talk about what we can do to mitigate against those problems, I'm happy to have a discussion on that topic. I don't have all the answers and would love to hear your opinions on how we might eliminate those problems from society. However, that discussion would have very little to do with Covid.

You're right. These problems aren't exclusive to the Western world. However, that doesn't make them any less troublesome and concerning.

You're also correct when you say these problems existed before covid, so I would agree they have little to do with covid directly. That said, the response to covid exacerbated the problem, even if it was the right thing to do medically.

When you boil it all down, the root of all these social problems is economic decline, and the root of the economic decline is the excessive creation of debt by governments.

All governments have been doing this, which is why the resultant social problems are global and not exclusive to the western world. This is modern monetary theory in practice, and it aims to create perpetual inflation, this is why central banks have 2% annual inflation targets.

Inflation of the currency supply means more dollars in the system and thus more dollars are available to the wealthy. This is why assets such as housing and the stock market have ballooned. This is why there is a growing divide between the haves and have-nots. With a growing divide comes a growing number of millionaires and homeless, and with that comes a growing resentment from those who are suffering. An increase in suffering leads to drug abuse, mental illness, social division, and general chaos.

As you can hopefully see, the response to covid is a very small part of this story, but not an insignificant one. It has quickened the economic decline and all the mortgage deferrals, cerb, and other monetary supports (which are necessary btw) are all various forms of inflation. Good short term, bad long term.

Deflation is going to be painful, but it needs to happen and will happen in time, despite governments best efforts to keep re-flating and kicking the can down the road. Everytime they do this the problems get worse and worse.

Anyways, I hope that was not geeking out to much for you, but that is the problem as I see it. If you want to talk about it more, you can always private message me. I don't typically like to make big long posts, especially when they are not soccer related. I am curious to hear your perspective on it though.

Here is an attempt to tie everything I said back to Canadian soccer: I really fear we could be hamstrung moving forward. The CSA is not in this best place money-wise and since a low tide lowers all ships, I fear we may be one of the first to sink in this environment. I can see the start of it now with cancellation after cancellation. I don't think the CSA will go bankrupt or anything, but we are already falling behind of others who are still finding ways to keep playing. Like I said before, this does not help us, it hurts us. We really could use some creative solutions to make sure we do not go inactive for too long.

Here's to hoping we play in January. If we cannot pull something together then it will be over a year since our last match.

Edited October 31, 2020 by Obinna

[Obinna]

9 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

I think if the CSA were bloody minded enough to do it, they could.  But with the current situation here and in Europe, I'm neither overly disappointed nor surprised; more just resigned to the situation.

Me too. I thought I would be more disappointed, but not playing no longer surprises me, sad to say.

[SthMelbRed]

18 minutes ago, Obinna said:

You're right. These problems aren't exclusive to the Western world. However, that doesn't make them any less troublesome and concerning.

You're also correct when you say these problems existed before covid, so I would agree they have little to do with covid directly. That said, the response to covid exacerbated the problem, even if it was the right thing to do medically.

When you boil it all down, the root of all these social problems is economic decline, and the root of the economic decline is the excessive creation of debt by governments.

All governments have been doing this, which is why the resultant social problems are global and not exclusive to the western world. This is modern monetary theory in practice, and it aims to create perpetual inflation, this is why central banks have 2% annual inflation targets.

Inflation of the currency supply means more dollars in the system and thus more dollars are available to the wealthy. This is why assets such as housing and the stock market have ballooned. This is why there is a growing divide between the haves and have-nots. With a growing divide comes a growing number of millionaires and homeless, and with that comes a growing resentment from those who are suffering. An increase in suffering leads to drug abuse, mental illness, social division, and general chaos.

As you can hopefully see, the response to covid is a very small part of this story, but not an insignificant one. It has quickened the economic decline and all the mortgage deferrals, cerb, and other monetary supports (which are necessary btw) are all various forms of inflation. 

I hope that was not geeking out to much for you, but that is the problem as I see it. If you want to talk about it more, you can always private message me. I don't typically like to make big long posts, especially when they are not soccer related.

Here is an attempt to tie everything I said back to Canadian soccer: I really fear we could be hamstrung moving forward. The CSA is not in this best place money-wise and since a low tide lowers all ships, I fear we may be one of the first to sink in this environment. I can see the start of it now with cancellation after cancellation. I don't think the CSA will go bankrupt or anything, but we are already falling behind of others who are still finding ways to keep playing. Like I said before, this does not help us, it hurts us. We really could use some creative solutions to make sure we do not go inactive for too long.

Here's to hoping we play in January. If we cannot pull something together then it will be over a year since our last match.

Most of what you wrote is some way outside my wheelhouse. If you're ever going to explain it to me in more detail, it'll definitely have to be over a beer. I won't survive otherwise! 😁

[BuzzAndSting]

Why doesn’t @SpursFlu start his own COVID related thread in the Off Topic section and refrain for posting his musings in threads about soccer? I understand there’s times when the two intersect but the posts that draw the most ire are the longer ones and the ones in which he attacks other posters calling them dumb and idiots, neither of which are contributing to the conversation at hand.

[One American]

Covid is a problem. But before it at least in the USA, things were the best they've been in 20 years.

[longlugan]

Well then once DT gets ousted next week and then concurrently goes to jail things should be even better for you guys.

[longlugan]

4 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

You play dumb as our communities, country, culture and future gets driven in to a ditch by corruption. But your a real good guy because your TV set tells you so. Remember your mask because you forgot your balls. Think of your parents, grandparents and most importantly your children. I really dont care about a football match at this point because it has nothing to do with this ridiculous virus concept and more to do with this human made spider web western civilization is tangled up in. You may think im a jerk, or find me offensive but I dont care, I'd break bread and drink a beer with any of you. This isn't about winning an internet argument at this point, its about the future of my country and my family. Im standing up for our values, your welcome to join at any point

You're the epitome of a douchebag...and that includes anyone else here who agrees with this viewpoint. As far as having a beer with you...I wouldn't step into any pub or bar you were in...but I would love to meet you in the alley next to it. The nerve of you thinking you value this country or one's own family more than the rest of us because of your Trumpian views. Go fuck yourself.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

I used to be very political (I was reminded of that when I saw one of my classmates get destroyed by Jason Kenny at the legislature in a recent clip) but partially because of that I try to be pretty apolitical these days. 

I will say: This is situation makes it even harder for a soccer  supporter that comes from country that:

 a) is huge (and so requires so much travel to play games)

b) does not as a nation live and breath the sport (and so has its economy/culture completely entwined with it)

 

Gut punch, no matter how you look at it. 

[bwilly11]

7 hours ago, longlugan said:

You're the epitome of a douchebag...and that includes anyone else here who agrees with this viewpoint. As far as having a beer with you...I wouldn't step into any pub or bar you were in...but I would love to meet you in the alley next to it. The nerve of you thinking you value this country or one's own family more than the rest of us because of your Trumpian views. Go **** yourself.

Calling for violence is unacceptable. Banter is all fun, but this rhetoric needs to be condemned. People disagree about politics, that is as old as time. You need to be civil, if you can't I ask you remove yourself from this community.  Violence is never OK.

[Gian-Luca]

14 hours ago, narduch said:

UK is going into lockdown next week.

I doubt all the other scheduled November international matches happen.

The US and Canada should be playing a friendly against each in the US since we have so many US based players right now anyway. Its the only friendly which makes sense for either country right now. I hope the cancelled friendlies force both nations to come to this conclusion. 

[Cheeta]

To be honest I wasn't very hopeful of a friendly ever coming off but I was sure looking forward to it.

By looking forward to it I mean I was looking forward to it A LOT.  It's been a long year. 

[dyslexic nam]

54 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

The US and Canada should be playing a friendly against each in the US since we have so many US based players right now anyway. Its the only friendly which makes sense for either country right now. I hope the cancelled friendlies force both nations to come to this conclusion. 

It won’t - but I agree.  

[Obinna]

12 hours ago, One American said:

Covid is a problem. But before it at least in the USA, things were the best they've been in 20 years.

The stock market in the US has reached all times highs during Trump's tenure, but this is a measure of wall street, not main street. Main street is still hurting. In fact, most of the stock market is too, but it is being pulled up on the strength of tech stocks. The 4 biggest tech stocks make up around 40% of the NASDAQ and a similarly absurd proportion of the S&P 500. So things are not as rosy as they seem on the surface. Even amongst the best companies there is growing inequality, as the rich are getting richer. Another consequence of debt-driven inflation perhaps.

That is not to say things have not improved for some. Jobs have been coming back from overseas, which has made a bit of a difference. GM, Ford and Carrier are just some of the companies that have moved back, creating jobs and providing relief for some Americans.

As for Trump and the election, the winner of Florida has won the past 6 elections, and Democrats cannot win Florida unless they win Miami-Dade by 30 points. Right now the early in-person results actually have Trump up by a few points, far from the 30 point lead the Democrats need. Obviously this is insurmountable days before the election. Similar situations exist in other battle ground States, such as Pennsylvania, so the Democrats are in big trouble, it seems.

Obviously we'll have to wait to see what happens with the mail-in votes, but 53% of Democrats have already voted, versus 25% Republicans, so there is a lot more votes to come from Republican voters, even when you factor the mail-in votes that have yet to be counted.

So all signs seem to point to Trump winning handily. There is a major enthusiasm gap in his favour and Biden is campaigning in Minnesota, days before the election, in a State the Democrats haven't lost in like 25 years, so perhaps that is damage control, though that's just a matter of opinion.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news @longlugan, but you may have to deal with another four years of Trump by the looks of it. I hope you deal with it better than threatening to beat people up in an alley.

Edited October 31, 2020 by Obinna

[longlugan]

4 hours ago, bwilly11 said:

Calling for violence is unacceptable. Banter is all fun, but this rhetoric needs to be condemned. People disagree about politics, that is as old as time. You need to be civil, if you can't I ask you remove yourself from this community.  Violence is never OK.

How is anything he said just considered banter? Seriously? But fair enough...I'll rescind the offer of meeting him in an alley. Probably a little over the top and said in the heat of the moment. Still an extremely scummy view of things by him but whatever right...it's just banter.

[SpursFlu]

Its all good. And for the record, i was only pointing out the proper application of the term Covidiot. Or as it has evolved in to, Useful Covidiot. Before that I was minding my own business, checking up on a potential November friendly. Rewind the tape and check for yourself. Happy Halloween

Edited October 31, 2020 by SpursFlu

[LeoH037]

Too predictable... this thread went about how I expected 😂

[red card]

If the CSA could make money, had structural support from the confederation and football was passionately followed in Canada, they would have the will to play friendlies in November.

UEFA & CONMEBOL are playing because they can make money off Nations League, Euro playoffs, WC qualifying and even friendlies. Their governments consider elite football important enough to give them covid exemptions. So it is worthwhile for national teams to spend on covid protocols.

In Concacaf, only Mexico has the "will" to play. Maybe eventually the US. The friendlies between other Concacaf nations are basically domestiques playing. Canadian governments don't allow this unless you have a CPL style bubble in the Atlantic region. Only viable option is for North American based players to play a friendly in the US against the domestic US based players or a Concacaf nation willing to travel to the US. But it would likely be against the advice of CSA's health experts.

For the age of covid, it has laid bare all the structural issues already percolating in a society (but not seen by all) from economic, health & racial/gender inequalities, treatment of elderly, prevalence of unhealthy lifestyles & underfunding of various areas starting with public health. Instead of seeing these issues fester and then unravel over a generation, covid compressed the timeline. Likewise with tech, 5-10 years of advancement/adoption has happened during 5 covid months.

Covid also reinforced to what degree a society (and this thread) thinks of the balance between the power of the collective vs any individual. Covid showed how much a society defers or rebels against top down decisions from authority/elite/expert classes. So far, the 5-6 countries/societies who already were on the same collective page and/or already had a high deference to authority have largely escaped being ravaged by covid.

 

Edited October 31, 2020 by red card

[LeoH037]

2 hours ago, red card said:

If the CSA could make money, had structural support from the confederation and football was passionately followed in Canada, they would have the will to play friendlies in November.

UEFA & CONMEBOL are playing because they can make money off Nations League, Euro playoffs, WC qualifying and even friendlies. Their governments consider elite football important enough to give them covid exemptions. So it is worthwhile for national teams to spend on covid protocols.

 

 

This. Always found it silly to make the assumption (invalidly) that it should be as feasible for us to have games just cause other countries are doing so. It's not a very strong argument. The fact is soccer is still a niche sport on a general landscape in Canada, and will probably continue to be so for another generation. Aside from recreational youth, the sport is still not very predominant outside from urbans centers that have a professional teams ( even before covid, CPL/MLS venues weren't exactly being sold out, aside from TFC, which is in large do to their ability to draw on their success to keep supporters coming back.. and while TV ratings continue to trend positively... it's still really nothing comparable to the order of magnitude, say Basketball, generates). Soccer doesn't sell... yet, or at least doesn't sell enough yet. Even with Hockey the Canadian government did not seem interested in making things any easier for the NHL to continue.

Edited November 1, 2020 by LeoH037

[El Hombre]

On 10/30/2020 at 11:49 PM, Obinna said:

When you boil it all down, the root of all these social problems is economic decline, and the root of the economic decline is the excessive creation of debt by governments.

All governments have been doing this, which is why the resultant social problems are global and not exclusive to the western world. This is modern monetary theory in practice, and it aims to create perpetual inflation, this is why central banks have 2% annual inflation targets.

Inflation of the currency supply means more dollars in the system and thus more dollars are available to the wealthy. This is why assets such as housing and the stock market have ballooned. This is why there is a growing divide between the haves and have-nots. With a growing divide comes a growing number of millionaires and homeless, and with that comes a growing resentment from those who are suffering. An increase in suffering leads to drug abuse, mental illness, social division, and general chaos.

Granted, it has been 20 years since I last sat through an economics lecture, but I'm pretty sure this is incorrect.  More dollars in the system actually devalues all of the dollars currently in the system.  Each dollar is worth less than it did the day before.  This does not benefit the wealthy.

I would also contend that the number of millionaires is not growing (except in certain industries), they are just more insulated to it.  What I do agree with are the growing numbers of homeless (or those living in poverty) generally due to the debt to income ratio that they had prior and the acute susceptibility to financial issues should you lose your job (which many have).

However, this is not because of the excessive creation of debt by governments.  In fact, the economic decline caused the expansion of debt by governments, not the other way around.  And without the expansion of debt by governments, the problems mentioned above would've been exacerbated and not diminished.

On 10/30/2020 at 11:49 PM, Obinna said:

As you can hopefully see, the response to covid is a very small part of this story, but not an insignificant one. It has quickened the economic decline and all the mortgage deferrals, cerb, and other monetary supports (which are necessary btw) are all various forms of inflation. Good short term, bad long term.

Deflation is going to be painful, but it needs to happen and will happen in time, despite governments best efforts to keep re-flating and kicking the can down the road. Everytime they do this the problems get worse and worse.

I don't understand the point about government spending making things worse than they would be otherwise.  It is designed and used (for the most part) for those most in need.  Without it, I contend that things would be significantly worse.  It will make things difficult going forward, but there is no alternative right now.

As somebody working in an industry that is currently cratering (due in no part to the CDN government but international factors) and also as somebody who has had to make staffing decisions in both the US and Canada, I am thankful for what Canada has done.  Especially when talking with co-workers at other sites around the globe.

Personally, I'm disappointed that there is nothing scheduled, but not surprised.  In my opinion, the benefits of friendlies are negligible but it is obvious that I place much less importance on them than you do, especially "high-profile" friendlies.  Too many times have I seen Canada play friendlies just to crash out when it matters.  (Paging Rob Gale...).  I definitely don't see the value of cobbling anyone who is available into some makeshift team for a runout just so I have something fun to watch on a Friday night.

Edited November 1, 2020 by El Hombre

[scooterlawrence5]

England lockdown extended, hence restrictions on soccer travel.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-englands-month-long-lockdown-could-be-extended-says-michael-gove-12120518

France and Germany lockdown too.  Soccer will be impacted for much longer.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-germany-to-enter-four-week-lockdown-from-november-chancellor-merkel-confirms-12117056

 

 

 

[narduch]

55 minutes ago, scooterlawrence5 said:

England lockdown extended, hence restrictions on soccer travel.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-englands-month-long-lockdown-could-be-extended-says-michael-gove-12120518

France and Germany lockdown too.  Soccer will be impacted for much longer.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-germany-to-enter-four-week-lockdown-from-november-chancellor-merkel-confirms-12117056

 

 

 

For now they are allowing their domestic leagues to play on. Not sure what it means for international matches though 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

16 hours ago, narduch said:

For now they are allowing their domestic leagues to play on. Not sure what it means for international matches though 

So far exceptions are being made for "elite sports"

"Culture secretary Oliver Dowden tweeted that "travel to a place of work will be permitted" for "elite sport played behind closed doors"."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/54765522