November friendlies

[RS]

2 minutes ago, Obinna said:

This is why no one seems to be talking about it. 

I don't only mean in here. It's a big issue in the world of soccer that hasn't really been top of mind (although it's starting to gain traction with each passing game as injuries and fatigue pile up).

But you're right, this board has always adhered to strictly discussing Canadian soccer subjects and has never veered off topic in any sort of way so I shouldn't have mentioned it.

I can add an ill-informed rant toward the CSA if that'll make you happy.

[Obinna]

5 minutes ago, RS said:

I don't only mean in here. It's a big issue in the world of soccer that hasn't really been top of mind (although it's starting to gain traction with each passing game as injuries and fatigue pile up).

But you're right, this board has always adhered to strictly discussing Canadian soccer subjects and has never veered off topic in any sort of way so I shouldn't have mentioned it.

I can add an ill-informed rant toward the CSA if that'll make you happy.

Sorry if my criticism of the CSA struck a nerve with you. I don't know why it would though, because clearly it was ill-informed.

No need to take our ill-informed rants about the CSA so seriously!

[RS]

32 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Sorry if my criticism of the CSA struck a nerve with you.

The hilarious thing is that it wasn't even aimed at you. Weird that you though that, though.

But seriously, you can't be objecting to me talking about soccer on a soccer board.

[RS]

34 minutes ago, Obinna said:

No need to take our ill-informed rants about the CSA so seriously!

I don't. Which is why I originally replied with something completely different.

Criticize the CSA all you want. I've done so in the past, and I'll do so in the future. What I don't understand is ignoring obvious realities when doing so, but c'est la vie!

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, RS said:

The hilarious thing is that it wasn't even aimed at you. Weird that you though that, though.

But seriously, you can't be objecting to me talking about soccer on a soccer board.

lol then why did you even quote me? 

1 hour ago, RS said:

I don't. Which is why I originally replied with something completely different.

 

2 hours ago, RS said:

I don't only mean in here. It's a big issue in the world of soccer that hasn't really been top of mind (although it's starting to gain traction with each passing game as injuries and fatigue pile up).

But you're right, this board has always adhered to strictly discussing Canadian soccer subjects and has never veered off topic in any sort of way so I shouldn't have mentioned it.

I can add an ill-informed rant toward the CSA if that'll make you happy.

Something different

 

Anyhow, yes c'est la vie. I look forward to reading your future criticisms of the CSA! 

[RS]

29 minutes ago, Obinna said:

lol then why did you even quote me? 

Because you quoted me in response to this post, which wasn't directed to anyone in particular.

Anyway here's something of interest to this discussion. Aside from the CONCACAF connection, it also relates to Canadian soccer in that a former Whitecaps player is one of those who contracted the disease, in case anyone wants to chastise me for talking about non-Canadian issues in here.

I'm sure this is no big deal. Canada Soccer would surely be able to navigate these kinds of challenges better than Mexico's federation. Whoops... don't want to be accused of being "pro-COVID" by bringing up the elephant in the room.

[SthMelbRed]

Someone wake me up when somebody has something new, fresh, and insightful to add to this conversation. Nearly 20 pages in, and this thread has 5-6 guys repeatedly saying the same unoriginal take over and over again. At least one guy tried to start a new thread with some actual constructive opinions, but it seems that we collectively prefer the repetitive dickhead approach.

[dyslexic nam]

6 minutes ago, SthMelbRed said:

Someone wake me up when somebody has something new, fresh, and insightful to add to this conversation. Nearly 20 pages in, and this thread has 5-6 guys repeatedly saying the same unoriginal take over and over again. At least one guy tried to start a new thread with some actual constructive opinions, but it seems that we collectively prefer the repetitive dickhead approach.

I think all actual discussion of friendly possibilities should move to the new Camp Poutine thread and constructive discussion about ways to improve the functionality of the CSA can move to the thread I started.  
 

That way this one can continue to be the new Parler/MeWe version of the V forum.  

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

5 hours ago, Obinna said:

A couple of ways to look at this

1) Jamaica averaged 0.5 more friendlies than Canada over the last 10 years, so we cannot say they play THAT many more friendlies than Canada.

2) Jamaica averaged 3.4 more games than Canada over the last 10 years, so there was theoretically less room in the calendar for them to play friendlies, yet they were still able to play more of them than us. 

Like Soth Korea, Jamaica is having COVID problems during this friendly window:

http://jamaica-gleaner.com/article/sports/20201112/two-covid-19-cases-reggae-boyz-camp-saudi-arabia

http://jamaica-star.com/article/sports/20201113/reggae-boyz-end-covid-lay-tomorrow-they-take-saudi-arabia-first-two

http://amp.jamaicaobserver.com/sports/new-positive-coronavirus-cases-rock-boyz-camp-in-saudi-arabia_207642

And the players have a tense relationship with the federation who either underpays them or pays them very late:

http://jamaica-gleaner.com/article/sports/20201110/jff-averts-reggae-boyz-strike

[RS]

42 minutes ago, SthMelbRed said:

Nearly 20 pages in, and this thread has 5-6 guys repeatedly saying the same unoriginal take over and over again.

*Checks "top posters in this topic" statistic* 

Phew! 

[CanadaFan123]

Yes everyone, the CSA has been behind the eight ball in every facet of world football for the last 30 years but they are now ahead of all other nations who are actually playing. Such a great take. They are right, everyone else is wrong!

Posting about Korean players testing positive is irrelevant. Forge FC, a two year old club, has been playing away from home all season with zero positive tests. Its about how you as an organization organize yourselves... something the CSA has never been able to do. 

It didn’t even have to be an “A” friendly. Just do something! Get a CPL camp together and play in CONCACAF. The apologists are pathetic here, I’m sorry if that’s offensive but it’s reality. And sorry if this is a repetitive take but this is a Canadian soccer forum and when you observe how our FA acts time and time again you’re going to get it. So you have the option to sign off. 

[Obinna]

15 hours ago, CanadaFan123 said:

Yes everyone, the CSA has been behind the eight ball in every facet of world football for the last 30 years but they are now ahead of all other nations who are actually playing. Such a great take. They are right, everyone else is wrong!

Posting about Korean players testing positive is irrelevant. Forge FC, a two year old club, has been playing away from home all season with zero positive tests. Its about how you as an organization organize yourselves... something the CSA has never been able to do. 

It didn’t even have to be an “A” friendly. Just do something! Get a CPL camp together and play in CONCACAF. The apologists are pathetic here, I’m sorry if that’s offensive but it’s reality. And sorry if this is a repetitive take but this is a Canadian soccer forum and when you observe how our FA acts time and time again you’re going to get it. So you have the option to sign off. 

I have been one of the biggest contributors to this online community over the years. Actually, I believe it has been close to 15 years now, so longer than most. I have seen a lot of posters come and go, but the one constant was that people were not shy to criticize the CSA. Has all of it been deserved? No, but at the end of the day it is just a bunch of passionate Canadian soccer fans sharing their opinions. That's what made this place great. 

Perhaps it was because I was typically not drawn into combative arguments until very recently, or perhaps it was because I had a blind love for this place, but either way I could simply not understand why valuable contributors such as @shermanator berated this place and ultimately walked away. I didn't believe it had negative reputation, but now I am starting to get it. I guess your perspective changes when you experience it for yourself.

It use to be the petty regional spats that brought the worst out of people, but in all my time posting here I never dreamed that criticizing the CSA would be the thing posters would attack each other over. Being easy on the CSA has become the new normal in the post-covid world, so I shouldn't be surprised.

Anyways, of course it would not be right to complain about this place without acknowledging I am obviously part of the problem. Things get toxic when it becomes a battle of egos, but this place is definitely not unique on the internet for that, that's for sure.

Anyways, I'll clue up my ill-informed rant, not by dramatically declaring that I am walking away (sorry to disappoint you @RS), but by reminding myself and others not to take things so seriously. This is just a place to talk about soccer. It is not life and death. If people want to coddle the CSA, let them go for it. If people want to irrationally bash the CSA, let them go for it. If people want to threaten to remove you and call you a dangerous covid conspiracy theorist, let them go for it. It says more about them than you. Sure, call them out if you want, don't call them out if you want, either way it's all good. You only get frustrated when you take it too serious, and that's when you get drawn in by someone else. 

I hope this was the post to put me atop the contribution leaderboard for this thread 😘

Edited November 14, 2020 by Obinna

[dyslexic nam]

22 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Perhaps it was because I was typically not drawn into combative arguments until very recently, or perhaps it was because I had a blind love for this place, but either way I could simply not understand why valuable contributors such as @shermanator berated this place and ultimately walked away. I didn't believe it had negative reputation, but now I am starting to get it. I guess your perspective changes when you experience it for yourself.

 

The irony of your post is that he and others walked away (as far as I know) because he/they saw a ton of destructive discussion about CPL where people were just constantly complaining and coming up with wild theories about why things wouldn’t work, without any real desire or effort to improve the situation.   To me, that is a much closer parallel to people making ridiculous claims about COVID and pretending that health considerations aren’t a huge factor driving the CSA’s action right now.   

[Obinna]

2 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

The irony of your post is that he and others walked away (as far as I know) because he/they saw a ton of destructive discussion about CPL where people were just constantly complaining and coming up with wild theories about why things wouldn’t work, without any real desire or effort to improve the situation.   To me, that is a much closer parallel to people making ridiculous claims about COVID and pretending that health considerations aren’t a huge factor driving the CSA’s action right now.   

That was probably the straw that broke the camel's back. I remember he also got in a few pissing matches with Unnamed Trialist too. At the end of the day, I am sure he just got tired of the destructive discussions in general.

He's played a massive role in building the supporters community here in Calgary, so he's more of a do-something guy and less of a waste-time-with-go-nowhere-destructive-arguments kind of guy, so I do not blame him. Much respect for him, actually.

[Gian-Luca]

Jamaica got thrashed 3-0 by Saudi Arabian in their November friendly today.

Looking forward to the December friendlies thread and then the January friendlies one.

[Obinna]

1 minute ago, Gian-Luca said:

Jamaica got thrashed 3-0 by Saudi Arabian in their November friendly today.

Looking forward to the December friendlies thread and then the January friendlies one.

Ouch! Saudi are a decent side and were at home but that's quite the defeat.

[Kadenge]

26 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Ouch! Saudi are a decent side and were at home but that's quite the defeat.

Bailey, Ravel Morrison & Bobby Reid came on at the half with Jamaica down 2-0. Hector was on the bench. Jamaica did not start their "A" team.  Dont know if the Saudis started their  A team

[RS]

3 hours ago, Obinna said:

hope this was the post to put me atop the contribution leaderboard for this thread 😘

That happened 66 posts ago (no exaggeration).

And, ironically enough, this post put me into the top 4. 🤣

[narduch]

Mexico v S. Korea is on One Soccer

Mexico is losing 1-0 with the 1st half almost over.

[CanadaFan123]

3 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

The irony of your post is that he and others walked away (as far as I know) because he/they saw a ton of destructive discussion about CPL where people were just constantly complaining and coming up with wild theories about why things wouldn’t work, without any real desire or effort to improve the situation.   To me, that is a much closer parallel to people making ridiculous claims about COVID and pretending that health considerations aren’t a huge factor driving the CSA’s action right now.   

They may be a convenient excuse factor but can’t be a good faith one. Unless we take the position that every other FA in the world is wrong and the CSA is right it just doesn’t fly. It can be done as just about every other country is showing. 

[SpursFlu]

4 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

The irony of your post is that he and others walked away (as far as I know) because he/they saw a ton of destructive discussion about CPL where people were just constantly complaining and coming up with wild theories about why things wouldn’t work, without any real desire or effort to improve the situation.   To me, that is a much closer parallel to people making ridiculous claims about COVID and pretending that health considerations aren’t a huge factor driving the CSA’s action right now.   

Actually its the other way around. So we're the righteous soccer association and the rest of the entire world is just out their being irresponsible. I dont buy it. CSA generates very little money compared to most and just when things were getting better.. this shit happened 

[Obinna]

2 hours ago, narduch said:

Mexico v S. Korea is on One Soccer

Mexico is losing 1-0 with the 1st half almost over.

Mexico comes from behind to win 3-2.

[SthMelbRed]

6 hours ago, Obinna said:

I have been one of the biggest contributors to this online community over the years. Actually, I believe it has been close to 15 years now, so longer than most. I have seen a lot of posters come and go, but the one constant was that people were not shy to criticize the CSA. Has all of it been deserved? No, but at the end of the day it is just a bunch of passionate Canadian soccer fans sharing their opinions. That's what made this place great. 

Perhaps it was because I was typically not drawn into combative arguments until very recently, or perhaps it was because I had a blind love for this place, but either way I could simply not understand why valuable contributors such as @shermanator berated this place and ultimately walked away. I didn't believe it had negative reputation, but now I am starting to get it. I guess your perspective changes when you experience it for yourself.

It use to be the petty regional spats that brought the worst out of people, but in all my time posting here I never dreamed that criticizing the CSA would be the thing posters would attack each other over. Being easy on the CSA has become the new normal in the post-covid world, so I shouldn't be surprised.

Anyways, of course it would not be right to complain about this place without acknowledging I am obviously part of the problem. Things get toxic when it becomes a battle of egos, but this place is definitely not unique on the internet for that, that's for sure.

Anyways, I'll clue up my ill-informed rant, not by dramatically declaring that I am walking away (sorry to disappoint you @RS), but by reminding myself and others not to take things so seriously. This is just a place to talk about soccer. It is not life and death. If people want to coddle the CSA, let them go for it. If people want to irrationally bash the CSA, let them go for it. If people want to threaten to remove you and call you a dangerous covid conspiracy theorist, let them go for it. It says more about them than you. Sure, call them out if you want, don't call them out if you want, either way it's all good. You only get frustrated when you take it too serious, and that's when you get drawn in by someone else. 

I hope this was the post to put me atop the contribution leaderboard for this thread 😘

It's not about posting a positive take on the CSA's issue du jour (or any other topic), or a positive one. It's the regurgitation of that same take again and again on multiple threads that's the problem. If five people post the same negative take on a given situation, it's a trend. If those same five people share that take 5-10 times each on 3 different topics over a short period of time, it's toxic. I hope nobody takes offense when I tell you all that nothing you have to say is so profound that it needs to be said 5 times.

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

2 hours ago, CanadaFan123 said:

They may be a convenient excuse factor but can’t be a good faith one. Unless we take the position that every other FA in the world is wrong and the CSA is right it just doesn’t fly. It can be done as just about every other country is showing. 

No. Every other FA is just willing to take the risk because they have more cash to burn. The "we cancelled November because of the health of the players" press release https://canadasoccer.com/news/canada-soccer-calls-off-national-teams-activity-for-november-2020/  while undeniably true is only one small piece of the puzzle. Those exact same health concerns will still be around come January. COVID19 is not going away anytime soon.

It's just become a much bigger and more expensive logistical challenge to have players fly to a camp that will have fewer practice sessions (quarantine time) and where a game can ultimately be called off because of positive COVID19 cases from either team or simply due to local health restrictions despite the CSA's best efforts.

So the math changes because the costs change and the risk factors change.

The cost-benefit analysis changes (this is already an economics thread).

MLS has a "10 day quarantine upon returning" rule that would have prevented the release of North American players and the logistics for our European-based players was difficult too.

The USA have the player depth to call a non-MLS squad for their games this month. That is much more difficult for us.

So the CSA said 'f it! It wasn't worth the trouble and I largely agree with them.

But what I just wrote doesn't make for a nice harmless and blameless press release. So they left it at the health concerns thing.

I believe the CSA made the right call as long as:

-You play a Camp Poutine with your MLS/USL/CanPL (and possibly Nordic based) players in January or very early February

-You bring your best 23 to whatever bubble is set up for WCQs in March

 

 

Edited November 15, 2020 by Olympique_de_Marseille

[Obinna]

12 minutes ago, SthMelbRed said:

It's not about posting a positive take on the CSA's issue du jour (or any other topic), or a positive one. It's the regurgitation of that same take again and again on multiple threads that's the problem. If five people post the same negative take on a given situation, it's a trend. If those same five people share that take 5-10 times each on 3 different topics over a short period of time, it's toxic. I hope nobody takes offense when I tell you all that nothing you have to say is so profound that it needs to be said 5 times.

This is a problem because you disagree with the take. There are lots of takes that get regurgitated, but since they are not controversial nobody considers them to be toxic. Regurgitation is not the problem.