November friendlies

[Obinna]

3 hours ago, Bison44 said:

You forgot to say something about pro covid people (must be the most misleading term I have ever heard) not having balls or being weak.  Excuse me while I get back to working on my procovid fundraising campaign.  I'm raising money to help spread the disease.  Or maybe I'll just wait because there are plenty of people who are spreading it for free.  YAYYY!!!!! Go COVID...WOOO!!!!

https://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-virus-and-vs-disease/

[narduch]

16 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Instead of just picking the low hanging fruit like everyone else who got offended did, I am going to ask you to clarify your point, because I thought I understood it, but now I am not sure.

Are you suggesting that some people are altering their opinions to make them congruent with their stance on covid?

Because if so, that's what I see too.

Think of friendlies what you want, but they are a chance to play. They are a chance to cap players. They are a chance to get better as a team. If it is possible to play a friendly, it is always better to play than not.

I would understand this attitude from some of you if +90% of the teams out there cancelled their games because it wasn't worth the risk to players health. We don't want to be one of they few teams around the world playing when everyone else is sitting out and taking their health seriously.

That is not the situation though. Yes there is a pandemic. Yes it is killing people a tiny fraction of vulnerable people, but most teams have continued to play safely, because the risk to professional players is not very great. We are in the minority by choosing not to play games because of covid. And for the tiny minority of vulnerable players out there, they can skip national team camp. Simple.

As fans of the team, you should want to see them play, but if you find yourself being indifferent to the cancellation just because of they said it was due to covid, then it is not about friendlies being meaningless all of a sudden, it is because you support a cautious approach to covid.

And that is okay. No offense to anyone who falls into that category, but just be aware how obvious it is to the rest of us Canadian fans.  

The TL:DR version of this post is that you think you are a better fan because you don't believe Covid is something we should take seriously.

Edited November 5, 2020 by narduch

[Bison44]

19 minutes ago, Obinna said:

https://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-virus-and-vs-disease/

This is from the "I wont go for the low hanging fruit" guy.  Yes its a virus, I was wrong calling it a disease.  You seem to be able to understand and trust medical expertise on that point.    

[Obinna]

34 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

This is from the "I wont go for the low hanging fruit" guy.  Yes its a virus, I was wrong calling it a disease.  You seem to be able to understand and trust medical expertise on that point.    

He was making a sensible point, which you guys didn't address at all.

Case in point, your sarcastic response (the opposite of a sensible point) was little more than a joke about pro-covid fundraising. Now you are turning this around on me for responding to your joke with a half-joke of my own. That's rich 😄

Here is the part that wasn't a joke:

People in the media erroneously call covid-19 a disease all the time. No wonder you conflated it yourself. Disease gets repeated over and over whenever covid-19 is reported. Disease sounds scary right? The truth is, a very large proportion of people who contract covid-19 never suffer any disease at all.

So just bringing your word choice to your attention 

Edited November 5, 2020 by Obinna

[Obinna]

43 minutes ago, narduch said:

The TL:DR version of this post is that you think you are a better fan because you don't believe Covid is something we should take seriously.

It's not that I don't think we should take covid seriously, or that I think I am a better fan.

It's that I think you should be aware that your desire for us to play friendlies has been diminished due to your stronger desire to take covid seriously.

That doesn't make you less of a fan than me though. It just means you really, really, really take covid seriously. Fair enough!

[Bison44]

  You are worried about my word choice??  When Spursflu is saying people are cheer leading for covid??  

[Obinna]

13 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

  You are worried about my word choice??  When Spursflu is saying people are cheer leading for covid??  

Yeah but he is being intentionally hyperbolic. We all know that. You are not being intentionally hyperbolic, you are just using incorrect words without realizing it. That's why I pointed it out. 

Calling things by their proper name is important, but I am not the word police. If you want to continue erroneously calling it a disease, which makes it sound worse than it is, you are welcome to do that.

Edited November 5, 2020 by Obinna

[RS]

1 hour ago, Obinna said:

People in the media erroneously call covid-19 a disease all the time. No wonder you conflated it yourself. Disease gets repeated over and over whenever covid-19 is reported. Disease sounds scary right? The truth is, a very large proportion of people who contract covid-19 never suffer any disease at all.

The media calls COVID-19 a disease because it is a disease. The cause of said disease is SARS-CoV-2 (known colloquially as "the coronavirus").

So, in fact, 100% of people who contract COVID-19 have a disease.

That was my whack at the low-hanging fruit in this thread, because calling things by their proper name is important.

 

 

[SpursFlu]

I dont agree with whats going on right now. Many many people agree with me. Smart people, dumb people, health professionals all sorts of people. People need to respect that and acknowledge that. People are not coming to that conclusion because they're evil, selfish or ignorant.

2nd point is.. people need to stop being confused or angered because things that they would like to occur or would like to have are no longer possible. I made this case on a conference call today, as long as the man made guidelines, (rightly or wrongly) protocols whatever are in place some things just ain't gonna happen or cannot be possible. People cannot have it both ways. How much do we value things? This thing, that thing, everything. This is where we are it my fellow Canadians

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, RS said:

The media calls COVID-19 a disease because it is a disease. The cause of said disease is SARS-CoV-2 (known colloquially as "the coronavirus").

So, in fact, 100% of people who contract COVID-19 have a disease.

That was my whack at the low-hanging fruit in this thread, because calling things by their proper name are important.

 

 

You are right, my apologies @Bison44. I was wrong. Covid-19 is correctly termed a disease. In fact, the D in the naming is for disease. Thanks for correcting me RS! 

Not always fun to be wrong, but I would rather be corrected than remain ignorant. 

When enough virus is present, it can cause disease. Thus, you can have SARS-CoV-2, but this does not mean you have COVID-19. A disease is characterized by a identifiable signs and symptoms, so "having" COVID-19 asymptomatically would seemingly be a misnomer.

That doesn't mean you cannot spread SARS-CoV-2 though. 

Edited November 6, 2020 by Obinna

[The Real Marc]

12 hours ago, Obinna said:

It's not that I don't think we should take covid seriously, or that I think I am a better fan.

It's that I think you should be aware that your desire for us to play friendlies has been diminished due to your stronger desire to take covid seriously.

That doesn't make you less of a fan than me though. It just means you really, really, really take covid seriously. Fair enough!

I don't want to tell other posters what they think or feel ... but I speculate that it's not that people like narduch, RS, etc. have a diminished desire for the team to play friendlies due to COVID. Everyone here wants to see the team play.

It's that they value context differently than others. They recognize and assess the multitude of factors influencing decisions during this time period within the context of why many of these factors are more challenging in our situation than for other associations. This leads to an appreciation of why we're not playing friendlies right now that goes beyond the easy answer of CSA complacency. That's all this is really about.

 

[longlugan]

On 11/5/2020 at 8:03 AM, Obinna said:

Not sure if you are disagreeing through sarcasm or you really believe people want the CSA to say that, but either way you are missing the point entirely.

I think you missed Kent's point.

[longlugan]

On 11/5/2020 at 11:36 AM, Shway said:

This whole thing is just ultimately embarrassing, and it's a testimony of how the Canadian Soccer Association has been running for years. Some of you guys have been following the NT for 25+ years and witnessed a lot of failure with no change, and have accepted whatever we'll be, we'll be the futures not ours to see que sera sera bullshit. 

Bottomline I can't accept complacency, and this is exactly what is being continually portrayed. 

We are going to be playing some serriousss catch up more than we already had, but I guess the mindset is "we have two of the best young players in the world, we'll be alright".

So if the rest of us are just accepting what the CSA is offering but you think we shouldn't please tell us what exactly you're going to do about it.

[longlugan]

On 11/5/2020 at 6:37 PM, Obinna said:

Yeah but he is being intentionally hyperbolic. We all know that. You are not being intentionally hyperbolic, you are just using incorrect words without realizing it. That's why I pointed it out. 

Calling things by their proper name is important, but I am not the word police. If you want to continue erroneously calling it a disease, which makes it sound worse than it is, you are welcome to do that.

So proper word choice mitigates the situation the world finds itself currently in? Interesting. 

[longlugan]

Sorry for these consecutive responses...I was just catching up on this thread.

[Stoppage Time]

The Americans, having called up 24 players, will go ahead, it seems, with friendlies in Europe against Wales and Panama. Was COVID even a consideration for the USSF, or for fellow CONCACAF nation Panama? The CMNT cancelled its "planned" November camp, it states, due to COVID.  So, was COVID definitively the reason for the CSA cancellation, or was it a lack of money?  I do not think that it would have been too hard for the CSA to rustle up 18 players for a camp in England, or in a different continental European country. Do not get me wrong - COVID Is a real risk. I just wonder why other countries are still playing friendlies. 

 

 

[SpursFlu]

27 minutes ago, Stoppage Time said:

The Americans, having called up 24 players, will go ahead, it seems, with friendlies in Europe against Wales and Panama. Was COVID even a consideration for the USSF, or for fellow CONCACAF nation Panama? The CMNT cancelled its "planned" November camp, it states, due to COVID.  So, was COVID definitively the reason for the CSA cancellation, or was it a lack of money?  I do not think that it would have been too hard for the CSA to rustle up 18 players for a camp in England, or in a different continental European country. Do not get me wrong - COVID Is a real risk. I just wonder why other countries are still playing friendlies. 

 

 

Lack of money 

Or maybe a better way of putting it

Lack of any foreseeable opportunities to make money

I bet another 15k in the stands vs US at BMO would have been pretty helpful right about now

Edited November 8, 2020 by SpursFlu

[Stoppage Time]

2 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

Lack of money 

Or maybe a better way of putting it

Lack of any foreseeable opportunities to make money

I bet another 15k in the stands vs US at BMO would have been pretty helpful right about now

I wonder if the CSA can find some Canadian corporation (yes, COVID is  business drag!!) to create a Canada to WC theme to more directly support the CMNT. A cooperative big bank rotating sponsorship, maybe: This match brought to you by Scotiabank; this (next) match brought to you by CIBC; this (next) match brought to you by RBOC, etc. Would $250,000.00 per match be sufficient? The Big 5 Serving Canada!

 

[SpursFlu]

21 minutes ago, Stoppage Time said:

I wonder if the CSA can find some Canadian corporation (yes, COVID is  business drag!!) to create a Canada to WC theme to more directly support the CMNT. A cooperative big bank rotating sponsorship, maybe: This match brought to you by Scotiabank; this (next) match brought to you by CIBC; this (next) match brought to you by RBOC, etc. Would $250,000.00 per match be sufficient? The Big 5 Serving Canada!

 

If that was possible wouldn't they have done that before. Your basically describing sponsorship 

[An Observer]

It looks like the Covid 19 restrictions in Europe are beginning to bite

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/nov/08/england-v-iceland-nations-league-game-under-threat-due-to-travel-restrictions

 

[h coach]

Eurosport>

Covid chaos: Players from six Serie A clubs banned from joining national teams

https://www.eurosport.co.uk/football/serie-a/2020-2021/covid-chaos-hits-international-calendar-as-some-serie-a-players-banned-from-travelling_sto7985973/story.shtml

[An Observer]

I probably have more sympathy for the CSA than most on this site but it’s looking very likely that we will start playing World Cup qualifying matches in March without having played a full international in a year and half. This is not ideal. I know we start with minnows but this really increases the chances of a slip up.  It also likely increases the chances of there not being too much tinkering with the side from what we saw in the autumn 2019 as Herdman will want as much familiarity as possible.  And with really no friendly widows between the start of World Cup qualifying and the World Cup, I suspect the Gold Cup is where we see some of that as that is the only place to allow for it. 

Edited November 10, 2020 by An Observer

[Shway]

2 hours ago, An Observer said:

I probably have more sympathy for the CSA than most on this site but it’s looking very likely that we will start playing World Cup qualifying matches in March without having played a full international in a year and half. This is not ideal. I know we start with minnows but this really increases the chances of a slip up.  It also likely increases the chances of there not being too much tinkering with the side from what we saw in the autumn 2019 as Herdman will want as much familiarity as possible.  And with really no friendly widows between the start of World Cup qualifying and the World Cup, I suspect the Gold Cup is where we see some of that as that is the only place to allow for it. 

That's why I find it annoying when he goes on record talking about the 80+ player database that they have (aka Canucks Abroad list). It means nothing if you as a manager have not seen half of that number in your camps. 

The fact that it would seem he is banking on familiarity is nerve wrecking for me, because form and injuries are possible realities. 

But hey we got David, and Davies two of the best young players in the world. 

[Obinna]

While we stay inactive, Jamaica plays Saudi Arabia. Seems like they are using the opportunity to bring some significant players into their program

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Johnson_(footballer)

Has been a Championship regular since 2015 with PNE. 28 y/o attacking midfielder. Have never seen him play but looks good on paper. Very surprised he hasn't earned a cap until now, especially considering he is Jamaican born. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ravel_Morrison

Needs no introduction. Obviously did not reach his potential, but his inclusion still belongs in the 'significant' category. Still only 27 y/o and is playing in the Eredivisie. Not exactly the worst level of football. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_Leigh

This one is interesting. 26 y/o left back with Aberdeen, who obviously have been making a best-of-the-rest case in Scotland over the past few seasons. They drew Celtic 3-3 a few matchdays ago and sit 3rd currently. They finished 4th last campaign. 

Those are the uncapped players, but there are also some "under-capped" players such as Fulham's Bobby Reid and Leverkusen's Leon Bailey. I am sure all involved appreciate the opportunity to get reps together, assuming it will not be cancelled.

Edited November 11, 2020 by Obinna

[gator]

This is frustrating, we stay idle while our CONCACAF rivals play matches and cap useful players!