November friendlies

[dyslexic nam]

6 minutes ago, Obinna said:

The same voices on this board who accept the cancelling of the November window plans "due to COVID" do not seem to interpret this as complacency. Interestingly, they are also some of the strongest pro-covid voices on this board.

I cannot help but see a connection there, but perhaps that is just me...

Pro-covid?  Odd way to characterize the people who don’t think it is some sort of exaggeration or hoax.  

[The Real Marc]

47 minutes ago, Obinna said:

All of them who were called and accepted.

But who knows, maybe the CSA actually couldn't find enough players interested in playing during COVID?

Which would obviously be a repudiation of our program, since many other countries are playing. That would definitely be a first, but this is Canada. Nothing would surprise me lol

Which ones were called and accepted?  Do we know under what conditions they accepted?  Do we know how their clubs interpreted this acceptance?  Ultimately, would you put your health and career on the line for a meaningless scrimmage?

Has it been a complete repudiation of our program when players have previously turned down calls to camps or games or tournaments? Where was the anger and the lack of "accepting complacency" then?

There are plenty of sticks to beat the CSA with. This situation sucks but as a CSA critique it is amongst the weakest I've seen in my decades following the team. This? This is small potatoes my friends!

Australia hasn't played a game in a year. The whole AFC has postponed their world cup qualifiers to 2021. Qualifiers.

PS - still trying to figure out what a "pro-COVID" voice is.

[Gian-Luca]

Related to this debate is that Werder Bremem have apparently told the US National team that they can go take a jump in the lake as far as Josh Sargent is concerned:

https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2020/11/03/united-states-calls-24-players-november-friendlies-against-panama-wales

https://www.werder.de/en/news/news/first-team/20202021/international-update-05112020/

"We spoke with our players and with the various associations. FIFA are releasing clubs from their obligation to make players available for international duty if they have to quarantine upon their return."  - a quote from the 2nd of the two links.

[Obinna]

28 minutes ago, The Real Marc said:

Which ones were called and accepted?  Do we know under what conditions they accepted?  Do we know how their clubs interpreted this acceptance?  Ultimately, would you put your health and career on the line for a meaningless scrimmage?

Has it been a complete repudiation of our program when players have previously turned down calls to camps or games or tournaments? Where was the anger and the lack of "accepting complacency" then?

There are plenty of sticks to beat the CSA with. This situation sucks but as a CSA critique it is amongst the weakest I've seen in my decades following the team. This? This is small potatoes my friends!

Australia hasn't played a game in a year. The whole AFC has postponed their world cup qualifiers to 2021. Qualifiers.

PS - still trying to figure out what a "pro-COVID" voice is.

There was indication that Arfield and Kennedy were going to be called. Not hard to imagine there were others. Possibly Millar was one, considering who started this thread.

Not sure how the clubs interpreting their "acceptance" is relevant.

And whether or not I would personally play in a "meaningless scrimmage" is not relevant either. I am not a professional athlete. A better question to ask is whether other internationals accepted call-ups in this environment. The answer is obviously yes. Surely not all have, and all the power to those who have not, but hard to imagine so many declining that we couldn't put a team together, though I acknowledge it could have been the case. It would be unfortunate, and would suggest playing for Canada is really not that meaningful, but at least it seem more plausible than cancelling strictly because things weren't safe. Either way, None of us on the outside know for sure. 

Have players ever turned down calls to camps or games to the point we had to cancel our planning to arrange it? I doubt it, but who knows? 

I am not concerned with Australia, I am concerned with Panama and the United States. They are playing and we are not. Their progression can impact us directly, Australia's cannot. I get your point is to show we are not the only ones not playing, but I take little comfort in that when our rivals are. 

Calling it a weak critique is fine. Either way it does not serve us not to play. Seems like we made a choice not to play. That seems like shooting ourselves in the foot. You may feel it wasn't really important to play or that we really didn't have a choice because of safety, but we did have a choice and playing is better than not. That's my opinion and you have yours and that is perfectly fine. 

 

Edited November 5, 2020 by Obinna

[Obinna]

59 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

Pro-covid?  Odd way to characterize the people who don’t think it is some sort of exaggeration or hoax.  

My apologies, I could not think of a better word for it, but you know what I mean and you clearly know you are one of the posters I was referring to, otherwise you would not have responded.

All due respect by the way. It seems like you work in health care, so your outlook is no surprise. My intention is definitely not to mock you or anyone else for your world view. I was just pointing out an interesting correlation that I noticed, which seems to explain the current lack of criticism of the CSA complacency from certain people (whatever you want to call those in this category is cool with me).

Edited November 5, 2020 by Obinna

[Obinna]

18 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

Related to this debate is that Werder Bremem have apparently told the US National team that they can go take a jump in the lake as far as Josh Sargent is concerned:

https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2020/11/03/united-states-calls-24-players-november-friendlies-against-panama-wales

https://www.werder.de/en/news/news/first-team/20202021/international-update-05112020/

"We spoke with our players and with the various associations. FIFA are releasing clubs from their obligation to make players available for international duty if they have to quarantine upon their return."  - a quote from the 2nd of the two links.

Goes to show that Bremen really value and depend on Josh Sargent, which is a good sign for the player. Losing players due to quarantine is a big deal for some of these clubs and understandably so.

And he is listed on their roster so he presumably accepted the call to play in a "meaningless friendly" even despite the quarantine he would have to go through. That is commitment. 

I hope our players have an equal amount of commitment, and quite frankly I have no reason to think otherwise. Our guys have really bought into the program under Herdman. I am sure they are disappointed not to play this window.  

Edited November 5, 2020 by Obinna

[Gian-Luca]

8 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Goes to show that Bremen really value and depend on Josh Sargent, which is a good sign for the player. Losing players due to quarantine is a big deal for some of these clubs and understandably so.

And he is listed on their roster so he presumably accepted the call to play in a "meaningless friendly" even despite the quarantine he would have to go through. That is commitment. 

I hope our players have an equal amount of commitment, and quite frankly I have no reason to think otherwise. Our guys have really bought into the program under Herdman. I am sure they are disappointed not to play this window.  

I think the bigger issue is that there's nothing in those links that I could find which says that clubs will be obligated by FIFA to release players for matches that actually count for something. What if Sargent was being called for a non-friendly?

I hope that it's not the case that, say, Bayern & Lille can tell us to go jump in the lake when we finally play some meaningful matches.

[Shway]

1 minute ago, Gian-Luca said:

I hope that it's not the case that, say, Bayern & Lille can tell us to go jump in the lake when we finally play some meaningful matches.

But they will, and clubs have in the past. We just have spun it around in saying it was a mutual decision lol.

[Gian-Luca]

4 minutes ago, Shway said:

But they will, and clubs have in the past. We just have spun it around in saying it was a mutual decision lol.

To counter my own argument, I guess it should be pointed out that Bayern is letting the US have Chris Richards. He's not a regular in the 18 the way Davies is so maybe they aren't at the stage where they would give two squirts of piss about him having to quarantine for 5 days when he comes back. But other US Bundesliga regulars like Reyna and Adams are also being released by their clubs (or at least, there are no reports yet that they won't be). So it doesn't seem like the clubs are taking a consistent approach.

 

[SpursFlu]

I just dont understand how the pro covid people don't understand that in order to continously do an activity that costs large amounts of money and resources, eventually if you are not able to create revenue and resources you're going to have to rationalize you're behavior. There are nice to dos and must dos. Friendlies in Europe are nice to dos, world cup qualifiers are must dos. If people continue to cheer on the concept of covid, the csa, communities, individuals are all going to have to make these decisions. 

 

Edited November 5, 2020 by SpursFlu

[Obinna]

18 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

I think the bigger issue is that there's nothing in those links that I could find which says that clubs will be obligated by FIFA to release players for matches that actually count for something. What if Sargent was being called for a non-friendly?

As per this debate I will add:

Had the CSA said in their press release that November plans have been cancelled due to the unavailability of players due to covid concerns, even that would have been somewhat understandable.

As it were though, they explicitly said their decision was based the advice of medical experts, implying they felt there was a safety risk to the players, which like I said before is a strange decision. I don't particularly buy it.

I do see your larger concern though. You are right, that could be an issue moving forward. 

Edited November 5, 2020 by Obinna

[Bison44]

31 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

I just dont understand how the pro covid people don't understand that in order to continously do an activity that costs large amounts of money and resources, eventually if you are not able to create revenue and resources you're going to have to rationalize you're behavior. There are nice to dos and must dos. Friendlies in Europe are nice to dos, world cup qualifiers are must dos. If people continue to cheer on the concept of covid, the csa, communities, individuals are all going to have to make these decisions. 

 

You forgot to say something about pro covid people (must be the most misleading term I have ever heard) not having balls or being weak.  Excuse me while I get back to working on my procovid fundraising campaign.  I'm raising money to help spread the disease.  Or maybe I'll just wait because there are plenty of people who are spreading it for free.  YAYYY!!!!! Go COVID...WOOO!!!!

[narduch]

11 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

You forgot to say something about pro covid people (must be the most misleading term I have ever heard) not having balls or being weak.  Excuse me while I get back to working on my procovid fundraising campaign.  I'm raising money to help spread the disease.  Or maybe I'll just wait because there are plenty of people who are spreading it for free.  YAYYY!!!!! Go COVID...WOOO!!!!

Its pretty obvious that the Covidiots are trying to turn "pro-Covid" into some kind of derogatory term.

But as usual with Covidiots, even their insults don't make any sense.

Edited November 5, 2020 by narduch

[RS]

1 hour ago, Gian-Luca said:

Related to this debate is that Werder Bremem have apparently told the US National team that they can go take a jump in the lake as far as Josh Sargent is concerned

WeDrEr BrEmEn iS pRo CoViD

[narduch]

48 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

To counter my own argument, I guess it should be pointed out that Bayern is letting the US have Chris Richards. He's not a regular in the 18 the way Davies is so maybe they aren't at the stage where they would give two squirts of piss about him having to quarantine for 5 days when he comes back. But other US Bundesliga regulars like Reyna and Adams are also being released by their clubs (or at least, there are no reports yet that they won't be). So it doesn't seem like the clubs are taking a consistent approach.

 

There is also a possibility that some of the players facing more stringent quarantine only play in the first match. That would give them enough time to be ready for their club games.

I guess we will find out.

[RS]

51 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

pro covid people

Stop trying to make fetch happen.

[johnyb]

2 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

Pro-covid?  Odd way to characterize the people who don’t think it is some sort of exaggeration or hoax.  

I'll take a stab at it. Pro-Covid = In favour of Covid Restrictions and Lockdowns.

[narduch]

1 hour ago, johnyb said:

I'll take a stab at it. Pro-Covid = In favour of Covid Restrictions and Lockdowns.

Yup. Still dumb even when someone tries to explain it.

Edited November 5, 2020 by narduch

[SpursFlu]

1 hour ago, RS said:

Stop trying to make fetch happen.

Ok ok I thought i was being nice about it. There are funner terms out there. How about anti do anything and then wonder why you can't do anything people

[LeoH037]

2 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

If people continue to cheer on the concept of covid, the csa, communities, individuals are all going to have to make these decisions. 

 

lol, least now and then this clown does post the odd ridiculous gem as above that you can't help but genuinely laugh. Do yourselves a favor though, don't take him seriously. You'll be the better off for it.

[SpursFlu]

20 minutes ago, LeoH037 said:

lol, least now and then this clown does post the odd ridiculous gem as above that you can't help but genuinely laugh. Do yourselves a favor though, don't take him seriously. You'll be the better off for it.

I'm glad your a fan. Thanks for insulting me. Your a good guy

[SthMelbRed]

5 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

I'm glad your a fan. Thanks for insulting me. Your a good guy

*You're

[LeoH037]

16 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

I'm glad your a fan. Thanks for insulting me. Your a good guy

Huge fan. And I am a good guy, and I think you're a good guy too. But being a clown and a good guy aren't mutually exclusive.

[Obinna]

4 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

I just dont understand how the pro covid people don't understand that in order to continously do an activity that costs large amounts of money and resources, eventually if you are not able to create revenue and resources you're going to have to rationalize you're behavior. There are nice to dos and must dos. Friendlies in Europe are nice to dos, world cup qualifiers are must dos. If people continue to cheer on the concept of covid, the csa, communities, individuals are all going to have to make these decisions. 

 

Instead of just picking the low hanging fruit like everyone else who got offended did, I am going to ask you to clarify your point, because I thought I understood it, but now I am not sure.

Are you suggesting that some people are altering their opinions to make them congruent with their stance on covid?

Because if so, that's what I see too.

Think of friendlies what you want, but they are a chance to play. They are a chance to cap players. They are a chance to get better as a team. If it is possible to play a friendly, it is always better to play than not.

I would understand this attitude from some of you if +90% of the teams out there cancelled their games because it wasn't worth the risk to players health. We don't want to be one of they few teams around the world playing when everyone else is sitting out and taking their health seriously.

That is not the situation though. Yes there is a pandemic. Yes it is killing people a tiny fraction of vulnerable people, but most teams have continued to play safely, because the risk to professional players is not very great. We are in the minority by choosing not to play games because of covid. And for the tiny minority of vulnerable players out there, they can skip national team camp. Simple.

As fans of the team, you should want to see them play, but if you find yourself being indifferent to the cancellation just because of they said it was due to covid, then it is not about friendlies being meaningless all of a sudden, it is because you support a cautious approach to covid.

And that is okay. No offense to anyone who falls into that category, but just be aware how obvious it is to the rest of us Canadian fans.  

Edited November 5, 2020 by Obinna

[Obinna]

Double post (again)

I am struggling with the changed position of the edit button. 😄

Edited November 5, 2020 by Obinna