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November friendlies


spitfire

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8 minutes ago, El Hombre said:

I didn't focus on that.  I said, "leaving that aside" and moved on with the rest...

The point is the contention that "X number of doctors have signed this declaration therefore it must be right" may not hold as much water as one thinks when there are legitimate concerns as to the veracity of those signatures.  Again, this speaks to the point I was trying to make regarding confirmation bias.  Dropping the superficial knowledge of the lede: "Thousands of scientists and health experts have joined a global movement warning of "grave concerns" about Covid-19 lockdown policies." is very alluring when talking with someone you disagree with but if you dig a little deeper and find out that some of those names may not be on the up and up is dangerous.  If it supports what you believe, you are less likely to do more research into the veracity of the statement.  If you do not support what it says, then you are more likely to go find an alternate source that may poke holes in the statement.  Like I did.

Also, I found the names genuinely funny.

It was like 30% of your post, but since you prefaced it with "leaving that aside", I guess it is beyond reproach...

As for the second point, is there any reason in particular you have legitimate concerns about the veracity of the signatures?

You can PM me as well by the way. It is probably time we kill this thing, just like the CSA killed our hopes for a November friendly.

Edited by Obinna
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57 minutes ago, El Hombre said:

 

Leaving aside the fact that you contradicted yourself by saying that this is not covered anywhere and then linking to coverage of it by one of the largest news organizations in the world, what we see here is called "Confirmation Bias".  You have linked to an article and cherry-picked the information that makes you the most comfortable or supports your personal bias.  They did not say that there is no pandemic (as you say above).  They do not call for an end to all lockdowns, but actually modified lockdown procedures and rolling the dice on herd immunity.  They actually say: "A comprehensive and detailed list of measures, including approaches to multi-generational households, can be implemented..."  The actual declaration is short on details which puts the pressure on local governments on how to implement it.  It is big on what should happen with very few details on how to make that happen.  So, its easy to see why so many people signed this including such luminaries as "Mr Banana Rama", "Dr Johnny Fartpants", "Dr Person Fakename", and "Professor Notaf Uckingclue".  Further to that, the declaration calls for kids to go to school.  As a parent, I did not know that we were under this type of lockdown.  I will have to investigate where my kids go between 8am and 3:30pm everyday if not to school.

And, if you look closely at the paragraph above, you'll see my bias creeping through.

Further to that, no one is stopping you from asking questions.  I think people object to you making grand statements of fact in incredibly condescending fashion.

 

1 minute ago, Obinna said:

It was like 30% of your post, but since you prefaced it with "leaving that aside", I guess it is beyond reproach...

As for the second point, is there any reason in particular you have legitimate concerns about the veracity of the signatures?

So, firstly, I'm not sure where the hostility is coming from but I have quoted myself above.  It is the first half of the first sentence.  Not sure how that equates to being 30% of my post.  Definitely doesn't make it beyond reproach but in my defence I was typing all that up while everyone else was piling on so it looked like I was just taking a cheap shot.  Oh well. 

Secondly, I removed the word "legitimate" while you were responding to this and even clarified that I wasn't making up the names, they were actually reported on.  The Guardian, The Independent and Sky News all had reports on these names.  So, I don't have concerns about the veracity of the signatures but others do.  I didn't like the word legitimate because that was too loaded and I shouldn't have used it.  That's why I removed it.  Unfortunately, you were too quick to quote my post.  I will spend more time editing before posting going forward.

All that to say that this is a perfect example of what I was trying to express.

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21 minutes ago, El Hombre said:

So, firstly, I'm not sure where the hostility is coming from but I have quoted myself above.  It is the first half of the first sentence.  Not sure how that equates to being 30% of my post. 

Your first sentence was like 30% of the post, so let's call it 15% then, how's that? :)

21 minutes ago, El Hombre said:

Secondly, I removed the word "legitimate" while you were responding to this and even clarified that I wasn't making up the names, they were actually reported on.  The Guardian, The Independent and Sky News all had reports on these names.  So, I don't have concerns about the veracity of the signatures but others do.  I didn't like the word legitimate because that was too loaded and I shouldn't have used it.  That's why I removed it.  Unfortunately, you were too quick to quote my post.  I will spend more time editing before posting going forward.

All that to say that this is a perfect example of what I was trying to express.

Fair enough, I see what you are saying now. Some of the signatures were literally signed with those goofy names? I can see why some people would doubt the veracity in that case, but to play devil's advocate, there is a perfectly reasonable explanation for them. Some medical professionals may have used pseudonyms in order to protect their identity in the event the medical establishment goes after them and attempts to strip their liscense for going against the grain. Of course, it also looks like names could have been made up to boost the number of signatures, I get that.

All good though, didn't mean to come out as overly hostile. As @Macksam would say: You still my dawg lol

Edit: I wonder if some people signed those names maliciously to discredit the whole thing by casting doubt? Just a thought I had just now.

Edited by Obinna
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I have no idea what a statistical pandemic is, just the usual kind where an epidemic is prevalent in multiple countries or world-wide.

Also, another tangent here declared Trump is winning the election due to an assessment of early voting by party registration in Florida. Even if Trump wins that state he will likely still lose unless he wins Pennsylvania. 

No tangent left unturned here.

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Cash Strapped Association or Cash Stupidly Attributed. Take you’re pick, but I’ll assume the latter and won’t accept the former.

This is bullshït, and as a federation we are being horribly advised...

I wish the WC system didn’t change, because  then we would be forced into scheduling games in need of those points to catch El Salvador. Since we don’t, we are back to waiting when Concacaf tells us that we have to play, back to being complacent and resting on the laurels of our upcoming young talented core to do something revolutionary using the same planning as the past.

My disappointment has switched to frustration.

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18 minutes ago, Obinna said:

️This comment contains talk of soccer

Sorry to interrupt the political/economic talk but.....

https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2020/11/03/united-states-calls-24-players-november-friendlies-against-panama-wales

The USA appear to be playing TWO friendlies this window. What was our excuse again?

 

FYP

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I know this is a touchy subject, but the more I think about it, the more I wonder if it wasn't the lack of games that sent Zambrano away.  I mean he must've been pretty vocal about it, I assume someone at CANMNT got annoyed at hearing Zambrano complain and beg for games.  Perhaps having to justify why there wasn't enough money or where was that money going got tiring and they decided to make an example of him? 

I can't even imagine how annoying it must be to have this team coming up and not having money or the chance to actually have games.  I can't see Herdman putting up with it very much longer.  The guy obviously has other options for careers, in coaching soccer or otherwise.

I also wonder.... if there was a possibility of a game in November - unless it was just a rumor to make them look good, and then according to plan, cancel before scheduling, cause, you know, Covid19 -  Is the money still there for a future game?  Or did they funnel it back to a under-8 hockey tournament? 

 

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44 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Sorry to interrupt the political/economic talk but.....

https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2020/11/03/united-states-calls-24-players-november-friendlies-against-panama-wales

The USA appear to be playing TWO friendlies this window. What was our excuse again?

 

Although in Austria there is confinement, the parameters for the realization of these games were accepted. 

 

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What a joke we are. We have the most valuable under 20 player on the planet and live in an amazing country yet can’t figure out how to organize ourselves for a game. So many excuses and never solutions. 
 

No money for friendlies? What a load of shite. And if it’s true we only have incompetent leadership to blame. There is no excuse.

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56 minutes ago, Shway said:

Cash Strapped Association or Cash Stupidly Attributed. Take you’re pick, but I’ll assume the latter and won’t accept the former.

This is bullshït, and as a federation we are being horribly advised...

I wish the WC system didn’t change, because  then we would be forced into scheduling games in need of those points to catch El Salvador. Since we don’t, we are back to waiting when Concacaf tells us that we have to play, back to being complacent and resting on the laurels of our upcoming young talented core to do something revolutionary using the same planning as the past.

My disappointment has switched to frustration.

 

14 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

What a joke we are. We have the most valuable under 20 player on the planet and live in an amazing country yet can’t figure out how to organize ourselves for a game. So many excuses and never solutions. 
 

No money for friendlies? What a load of shite. And if it’s true we only have incompetent leadership to blame. There is no excuse.

In what ways do you feel the CSA has mismanaged their funds? Where would you reallocate funds? What funding would you cut?

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Nothing make's sense....no reports from other countries stating that their friendly with Canada was cancelled. It was a bullshīt PR move. There was no friendly planned. The reaching out/sending out invitations to players was all just a ploy. 

Quote

The association, which has a staff of 50 to 55, has not laid off any employees. Staff are officially working four days a week, with an accompanying reduction in pay, although they continue to work longer hours.

https://www.nsnews.com/canada-soccer-calls-off-planned-women-s-national-team-camp-in-england-due-to-covid-1.24219908

This was from October, but it's recycled bullshït again!

Currently employed are 60 employees, they are listed below and there roles:

BOARD OF DIRECTORS
STEVE REED - President
NICK BONTIS - Vice President

GENERAL SECRETARIAT
PETER MONTOPOLI- General Secretary
LISA SPINA- Executive Assistant
EARL COCHRANE

SOCCER ADMINISTRATION DEPARTMENT
JOE GUEST - Deputy General Secretary
JESSIE DALY - Senior Manager, Events
CATHY BREDA - Manager, Administration
DAN PAZUK - Systems Coordinator & Registrar
ALLIE PIKE - Events Coordinator
KELSEY HUNT - Events Coordinator
ISAAC RAYMOND - Referee Department Manager
MICHAEL TUCKER - Referee Program Administrator
MIKE MORETTO - Equipment Manager
REMY EYCKERMAN- Warehouse Coordinator

Barely any events are being organized by the CSA, what work is required overtime?

FINANCE DEPARTMENT
SEAN HEFFERMAN - Chief Financial Officer
FRANCINE MÉRETTE - Manager of Finance
NATALIA VORONTSOVA - Accounts Payable
DALIA ARMADA - Accounting Clerk/Accounts Receivable

Okay people have to paid, money is always coming in and go out...but where to salaries only?

BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT DEPARTMENT
SANDRA GAGE - Chief Marketing Officer
DOMINIC MARTIN - Director, Marketing
RICHARD SCOTT - Director, Communications
BRAD FOUGERE - Manager, Digital & Corporate Communications
KAITLIN TULLE - Manager, Brand & Ticketing
VANESSA RACINE - Manager, Content
JOHN BRUCE - Graphic Designer

Nothing is being marketed....jerseys haven't be released to stores, no games are being played to market, players are only being mentioned at their clubs. So what work is being done to be considered working overtime.
- On average instagram is posted once a week
- Twitter is a bunch of repost, and birthday shouts

TECHNICAL DEPARTMENT
JASON DEVOS - Director of Development
DAVE NUTT - Manager, Development - Operations
STUART NEELY - Manager, Coach Education
JIM LOUGHLIN - Master Coach Developer

Coaching education programs are closed/inactive so who's working? I wonder if there was any summer programs?

NATIONAL TEAMS DEPARTMENT

JOHN HERDMAN -Men's National Team Head Coach, Men's National EXCEL Director
MAURO BIELLO - Men’s National Team Assistant Coach, Men’s EXCEL U-18 to U-23 Program Director
ANDREW OLIVIERI - Men's EXCEL U-14 to U-17 Program Director
SIMON EADDY - Men's EXCEL Goalkeeping Manager, Men's National Team Assistant Coach
ERIC TENLLADO - Men's EXCEL Development Coach
BEV PRIESTMAN - Women’s National Team Head Coach
ANDRÉE JEGLERTZ - Women's National Team Assistant Coach
RHIAN WILKINSON - Women's National Team Assistant Coach, Women’s Youth National Team Coach
MIKE NORRIS - Women's EXCEL Goalkeeping Manager
DANIEL MICHELUCCI - Men's EXCEL Operations Manager
JAN LANG - Men's EXCEL Program Coordinator
KYRIAKOS SELAIDOPOULOS - Futsal National Team Head Coach
DREW FERGUSON - Para Soccer National Team Head Coach
MAEVE GLASS - Women's National Team Tour & Equipment Manager
ANDI BARNABA - Women's EXCEL Program Manager
ROBYN GAYLE - Excel Mental and Cultural Manager
SARAH SMITH - Peak Performance Manager / Sports Physiotherapist
BRANDON FRITH - Manager, Ontario SuperREX
TANIA SINGFIELD - Goalkeeper Coach, Ontario SuperREX

This entire list is essentially inactive as there isn't any camps happening at all levels. Not domestic, not international....so who's really working? I can guarantee it's a bunch of fluff online meetings that are planning and preparation for nothing. Because nothing has happened or needed to be done since everything was cancelled in March.

Quote

Montopoli is anticipating $12 million to $14 million less in revenue this year. The association's normal operating budget features annual revenue of $22 million to $25 million, he said in an interview.

So my simply question is "WHERE THE FÜCK IS THE OTHER HALF OF THE MONEY GOING!"

Edited by Shway
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I could accept if they tried and failed and were transparent with us. It would still have been disappointing, but it would have been acceptable.

Instead what did they do? They tried and failed and instead of being honest they used the pandemic as an excuse, which I find absolutely deplorable.

Even if I give them the benefit of the doubt and take them at face value, then I will point to the United States and Panama and ask why not us? Do they just value the "safety" of our players more than everyone else? And if this was always about safety, why did they even make an effort to play in this window to begin with? Herdman himself said they were trying to line something up for November. 

So yeah, this goes beyond the smell of bullshit. It is absolutely pathetic. I am seriously getting fed up with the leadership at this association. 

 

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1 minute ago, Obinna said:

I could accept if they tried and failed and were transparent with us. It would still have been disappointing, but it would have been acceptable.

Instead what did they do? They tried and failed and instead of being honest they used the pandemic as an excuse, which I find absolutely deplorable.

Even if I give them the benefit of the doubt and take them at face value, then I will point to the United States and Panama and ask why not us? Do they just value the "safety" of our players more than everyone else? And if this was always about safety, why did they even make an effort to play in this window to begin with? Herdman himself said they were trying to line something up for November. 

So yeah, this goes beyond the smell of ********. It is absolutely pathetic. I am seriously getting fed up with the leadership at this association. 

 

Absolutely this! 

There would be a level of understanding, but its complete bullshït and im not buying it. 
The benefit they have is that we the Voyageurs aren't organized enough to shed the necessary lights on this.

Panama, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras and Jamaica, all have more funds than us is what I have to believe? 
Fack right off. 
 

Edited by Shway
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Just now, Shway said:

There needs to be a prioritization/adjusting period. Above as you can see the amount of people employed by the CSA does

I want to use the C word again but instead I will just say that the CSA is bloated and it is so painfully obvious when you look at that list of employees. Thanks for sharing that.

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8 minutes ago, Shway said:

Nothing make's sense....no reports from other countries stating that their friendly with Canada was cancelled. It was a bullshīt PR move. There was no friendly planned. The reaching out/sending out invitations to players was all just a ploy. 

This was from October, but it's recycled bullshït again!

Currently employed are 60 employees, they are listed below and there roles:

BOARD OF DIRECTORS
STEVE REED - President
NICK BONTIS - Vice President

GENERAL SECRETARIAT
PETER MONTOPOLI- General Secretary
LISA SPINA- Executive Assistant
EARL COCHRANE

SOCCER ADMINISTRATION DEPARTMENT
JOE GUEST - Deputy General Secretary
JESSIE DALY - Senior Manager, Events
CATHY BREDA - Manager, Administration
DAN PAZUK - Systems Coordinator & Registrar
ALLIE PIKE - Events Coordinator
KELSEY HUNT - Events Coordinator
ISAAC RAYMOND - Referee Department Manager
MICHAEL TUCKER - Referee Program Administrator
MIKE MORETTO - Equipment Manager
REMY EYCKERMAN- Warehouse Coordinator

Barely any events are being organized by the CSA, what work is required overtime?

FINANCE DEPARTMENT
SEAN HEFFERMAN - Chief Financial Officer
FRANCINE MÉRETTE - Manager of Finance
NATALIA VORONTSOVA - Accounts Payable
DALIA ARMADA - Accounting Clerk/Accounts Receivable

Okay people have to paid, money is always coming in and go out...but where to salaries only?

BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT DEPARTMENT
SANDRA GAGE - Chief Marketing Officer
DOMINIC MARTIN - Director, Marketing
RICHARD SCOTT - Director, Communications
BRAD FOUGERE - Manager, Digital & Corporate Communications
KAITLIN TULLE - Manager, Brand & Ticketing
VANESSA RACINE - Manager, Content
JOHN BRUCE - Graphic Designer

Nothing is being marketed....jerseys haven't be released to stores, no games are being played to market, players are only being mentioned at their clubs. So what work is being done to be considered working overtime.
- On average instagram is posted once a week
- Twitter is a bunch of repost, and birthday shouts

TECHNICAL DEPARTMENT
JASON DEVOS - Director of Development
DAVE NUTT - Manager, Development - Operations
STUART NEELY - Manager, Coach Education
JIM LOUGHLIN - Master Coach Developer

Coaching education programs are closed/inactive so who's working? I wonder if there was any summer programs?

NATIONAL TEAMS DEPARTMENT

JOHN HERDMAN -Men's National Team Head Coach, Men's National EXCEL Director
MAURO BIELLO - Men’s National Team Assistant Coach, Men’s EXCEL U-18 to U-23 Program Director
ANDREW OLIVIERI - Men's EXCEL U-14 to U-17 Program Director
SIMON EADDY - Men's EXCEL Goalkeeping Manager, Men's National Team Assistant Coach
ERIC TENLLADO - Men's EXCEL Development Coach
BEV PRIESTMAN - Women’s National Team Head Coach
ANDRÉE JEGLERTZ - Women's National Team Assistant Coach
RHIAN WILKINSON - Women's National Team Assistant Coach, Women’s Youth National Team Coach
MIKE NORRIS - Women's EXCEL Goalkeeping Manager
DANIEL MICHELUCCI - Men's EXCEL Operations Manager
JAN LANG - Men's EXCEL Program Coordinator
KYRIAKOS SELAIDOPOULOS - Futsal National Team Head Coach
DREW FERGUSON - Para Soccer National Team Head Coach
MAEVE GLASS - Women's National Team Tour & Equipment Manager
ANDI BARNABA - Women's EXCEL Program Manager
ROBYN GAYLE - Excel Mental and Cultural Manager
SARAH SMITH - Peak Performance Manager / Sports Physiotherapist
BRANDON FRITH - Manager, Ontario SuperREX
TANIA SINGFIELD - Goalkeeper Coach, Ontario SuperREX

This entire list is essentially inactive as there isn't any camps happening at all levels. Not domestic, not international....so who's really working? I can guarantee it's a bunch of fluff online meetings that are planning and preparation for nothing. Because nothing has happened or needed to be done since everything was cancelled in March.

So my simply question is "WHERE THE FÜCK IS THE OTHER HALF OF THE MONEY GOING!"

This is all posted publicly, you just have to put the effort in to look it up.

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2 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I want to use the C word again but instead I will just say that the CSA is bloated and it is so painfully obvious when you look at that list of employees. Thanks for sharing that.

I have another issue with that list that I realized after posting it...but I'll save it for another time, even though it should be addressed during todays current equality issues. 

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Just now, narduch said:

Lol. Who needs Robert when we have others to carry his torch.

Nope.

We just care about soccer in this country and realize the CSA needs to criticized (and praised) when it is deserved.

Robert cares about soccer in Holland and realizes pissing people off for the sake of it is easy on this board, so he comes back for more and everyone falls for it.

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